Pellet testing JSB 18, Hunter Extreme, Hades, Polymag, Slug in ballistic gel

[sharroff]

I've been shooting JSB 18s for a long time now from my Airwolf MCT (.22) w/Heliboard. They are lasers from 10-75 yards (my typical shooting distance) but don't expand in small game. Great for headshots though. I use Hunter Extremes which are good to about 50 yards before their accuracy falls off too much for me. But they do alot of damage on body shots and have a very audible "thwak" compared to the 18s. So, when I came back here (it's been a while) and saw everyone talking about Hades and slugs, I thought I'd check out performance before putting in a large order. Results are below, and not what I expected. The gun is set around 40 fpe and shots were taken at 20 yards.



Side view

Top view

The JSB 18, like I expected, penetrated the furthest at 9 1/8" before it's energy ran out.

The next farthest in was the slug at 6 3/4". That surprised me as I expected it to open up and dump all its energy fast, but that did not happen, even on follow up shots in case the first was a fluke. I later tried them on clay and they fully expand and basically the hollow point part disintegrated.

Next was a Polymag at 4 3/4". They don't shoot well from my gun, but what the heck for testing purposes.

Then, the Hades at 4 1/2". I'm looking forward to testing these at distance once it gets warmed / drier here.

The pellet the dumped its energy the fasted (and expanded the most) was the Hunter Extreme at 4 3/8".

Here are top and side views of the pellets/slug removed from the gel.

I wanted to see what happened on something with a harder consistency than 10% ballistic gel so fired into modeling clay. Very different results.

For comparison, the JSB 18 only made it in 2 3/4" in clay

This time the JSB 18 actually did flatten a bit, but nowhere near as much as the Hunter Extreme or Predator. The Hades tore itself apart and the slugs hollow point opened fully and disintegrated.

So results? 

They all kill with headshots, and the JSB 18s are the most accurate of the bunch (so far) and will remain the headshot/paper shooting/practicing round. JSB 18s on order

For energy dump, I'll be testing the Hades for accuracy at 10-75 yard hunting and the slug for longer range. Hades on order, slugs on order.

Do you get the same results from expensive ballistic gel and cheap Amazon modeling clay? Nope. Can't really compare the two for penetration or what happens to the pellet/slug itself.

Hope someone finds this helpful.

 

[airgunmike56]

very good testing, Thanks for posting, I never tried the Hunter extreme or slugs, 

Mike

 

[dizzums]

i decided a long time ago that expansion in a slower moving projectile isnt very reliable on meat or important .. penetration and the base diameter of the projectile is basically 90% of the whole story .. also a hollow point generally moves more weight out of the front and very basically, a projectile is less easily deflected front-weighted, probably why straight domes usually do so well ..

 

[Jlowe]

I have killed 100's of squirrels with JSB 18's at 32 foot pounds with chest and head shots. Didn't seem to matter as they worked all the time, every time. Not so much though for the JSB 15.89's for some reason. I plan on trying the JSB Hades this fall. 

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

Great comparison. Thanks for taking the time and effort for everyone's benefit.

 

[JungleShooter]

sharroff,

that was a great performance report, thank you!

I have been very interested in HP expansion, of both slugs and pellets, and have a series of articles exploring this.

Here is the initial article, with links to the others, including many expansion test results:

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/%f0%9f%92%80-quarry-what-killsem-dead-the-mechanics-of-killing/





Congrats on choosing ballistic gel!! — which is much more like animal flesh than the much harder clay or play-dough.

The harder the material, the more HP expansion we get ➔ the less realistic the results are when compared to expansion in real game.





The big issue with expansion is the impact velocity. The faster, the more expansion. And there is a threshold velocity below which expansion is insignificant.

So, I understand that the muzzle velocity was 40FPE for all the projectiles, and the range (exactly) 20 yards?

➔ Because knowing this I can calculate the impact velocity....





Your photos are very good.

The interesting detail is the size to which each projectile opened up.
Do you think you could measure with calipers the size each of them expanded (the ones in ballistic gel)?

➔ I'd love to include your test results in the collection of expansion data in the link above.





I've been working on testing a variety of HP on pigeons — trying to determine the minimum impact velocity to achive significant HP expansion.

However, lately the falcons (and my PP700) have put the Fear of God into them pigeons, so that I haven't seen them on their usual roosting sites for almost 2 weeks straight.

Got to go to a more target rich permission to continue testing...!



sharroff, thanks again for your very good post!

Matthias

 

[sharroff]

JungleShooter,



Agree on the material being as close to the 'game' as possible being important. I had thought about getting a cheap / small piece of meat to shoot, but did not have it on hand and didn't want to go out to get it.

Agree on velocity and expansion, along with other factors like how much distance does the projectile have to slow down (resistance). Gel vs clay vs AR500 steel being examples.

I have radar and IR chrony's so here is actual data. Left to right, JSB 18, Hunter Extreme, Hades, Predator, Slug. Obviously there is fpe variation based on the projectiles interaction with the lands and grooves. Looking at the picture of the fired JSB 18 vs slug shows the variation.

To measuring expansion with calipers, yes. Method was to hold he projectile vertically and rotate it in the calipers. If it was too tight to continue rotating, I opened up a bit until the projectile could do a full rotation.

JSB 18 5.64

Hunter Extreme 7.54

Hades 7.19

Predator 6.65

Slug 5.5

The Heliboard in my Airwolf MCT has 12 computer controlled (100 percent reproducible vs turning knobs to compress springs) maps that let me take the Hades for example from 967 fps at 20 yards all the way down to 424 in 12 steps. If you are missing data in your map for one of the projectiles I have, I can test that for you.

I also have a .177 Ranchero around 19 ft/lbs (fixed power) for backyard pesting and a new Impact .25 that I'm playing with around 55 ft/lbs (presently) and a RAW 30 around 80 ft/lbs (fixed power) that I could use for some testing

 

[JungleShooter]

sharroff,

wow, THANK YOU!

Very cool, your equipment, radar and all.

The Heli-board must be very nice to work with! Reproducible is the key word here!

Thanks for the impact velocities and expansion sizes!



Thanks for offering to do some test shots!! When I assemble all the test data, I'm sure there'll be gaping holes...! Very kind of you!



Matthias



Below is an example of what I'd like to see for all our HP projectiles. I assembled it from test data from Rick Eustler (Airgun Web-TV):

 

[sharroff]

That chart is revealing and makes alot of sense actually. At 680-770 fps the Hunter Extreme has basically turned itself into the likeness of a JSB 18 domed..

 

[JungleShooter]

Yes, the Baracuda Hunter Extreme is made from pretty hard lead, so for expansion it needs a higher velocity.

The regular Baracuda Hunter expands better, it seems, cf. the test PT004 below, a 28% expansion of total diameter, and a 75% expansion of the meplat (however, the test was in 20% ballistic gel, which is harder then the normal 10%, thus helping expansion).

Test data based on Hajimoto's tests:

However, for the Hunter Extreme at those velocities and for your 20 grain slug in your test there is something else to consider when we want projectile to expand to make a better kill: 

It's the size of the meplat (the flat frontal surface of the pellet: domes don't have any; for hollow points the HP cup counts as part of the meplat).

Reason: For the kill we try to crush the tissue — because we want a permanent hole in the quarry. 

Domed pellets have a tendency to slide easier thorough the tissue than say wadcutters (or HP). Therefore, domes crush less tissue (only 65-70% of the tissue, acc. to an article by Schaefer), and make a smaller permanent wound cavity. Wadcutter crush more due to their larger meplat, and thus make a bigger hole = better kill!



Now, if we have a slug or HP like in your test that does not expand much beyond its caliber — but opens up its hollow point cup = enlarges its meplat — it will crush more tissue because the larger meplat will crush more tissue.



Matthias

 

[sharroff]

What I'd like to see / test i/ figure out is how early the HP starts deforning/expanding and when it reaches maximum diameter. I think I'll try a shot into gel with the Go Pro close up (i only need to record 5") and running at max frame rate.

 

[JungleShooter]

YES, YES!!

I have been wondering about the same thing!



There is a guy on YouTube (channel name GunPowder&AirPower) who cuts down the ballistic gel blocks to mimick the girth of his quarry (well, he says he mimicks their weight, but I think the length that the projectile has available to travel and expand is the more critical issue).

Matthias

 

[sharroff]

240 fps isn't fast enough to really do the job.

Nothing happening yet

1/240th later gun fired, the white "flash" is the flashlight showing the displaced gel. We can see the projectile path widening in a cone shape. Those vertical lines are 1/4 inch. It looks like it was expanding almost from the time it hit to 3/4 inch.

at 2/240ths some more turbulence in gel, but the projectile cavity is closing. Looks like the majority of the 'shock' happens in the first inch.

at 3/240th, projectile cavity closed, projectile stopped. The whole thing happened in 4/240's of a second

 

[JungleShooter]

Wow, you ran an experiment right away, cool!! Thanks!

So, let me get this straight, the slo-mo showed the pellet expanding within the first 3/4" -- or after 3/4" it has started to open up? (I'm not sure what I'm looking at in the photos.)

This is pretty important stuff, and I wonder why this is the first time I see someone testing WHEN the hollow point actually opens up fully...! Just imagine if the HP would open up as far as the impact velocity would allow it to open up after a full 4" of travel through tissue -- that would mean that the expansion is pretty much wasted on most shots as they only travel 1" or at the most 2" -- after all our quarry is usually pretty tiny.



I was just working on making a summary picture (like the ones above) of your awesome expansion & penetration test -- but I got confused, sorry.

The velocity numbers in the pic below, are they muzzle velocities -- or impact velocities 20 yards downrange? If they are impact velocities, how did you get that data? Would you have the muzzle velocities?

I saw some of your older posts on pellet expansion and stuff, pretty cool.

Matthias

 

[sharroff]

Look at the second picture (updated below). That white area is the pellet entering the gel and creating an expanding cone shaped channel in the gel. The channel starts expanding almost immediately and is the largest at about 3/4 inch in

 

[AirgunBill]

YES, YES!!

I have been wondering about the same thing!



There is a guy on YouTube (channel name GunPowder&AirPower) who cuts down the ballistic gel blocks to mimick the girth of his quarry (well, he says he mimicks their weight, but I think the length that the projectile has available to travel and expand is the more critical issue).

Matthias

Well I am that guy and I think it is very important to match the size and weight of your quarry to gage the projectile performance. The idea is to see if your projectile can expand and dump its energy in the distance it has to penetrate and taken in to account the weight of your quarry. My tests so far using the Clear Ballistics Gel has matched the results when shooting into dead critters. I also set-up my tests at 50 yards minimum to show more realistic energy levels for longer shots as opposed to setting the test block at the muzzle or say ten yards. I would ask what slug are you using for your expansion testing. All slugs are not created equal. I found so far in the FX Hybrids only the .22 cal expand very well but not the .25. caliber. I just got some of their .30 caliber to test. The Griffin Slugs with the poly ball inserts I have tested expand very well too. Also the Varmint Knockers do well with the smaller caliber .22's having the most expansion compared to their .25's and 30's. Bill



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EGHhh0mBQc&ab_channel=GunPowder%26AirPower

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa3fYjz4lsw&ab_channel=GunPowder%26AirPower

 

[JungleShooter]

AirgunBill,

YES, you are the man!

I really appreciate your testing, and how much importance you put on realistic testing! Love the pellet catcher you built!



I already have transformed all your .22 ballistic gel projectile tests into diagrams like the above already.  

I sure hope you'll do more of those kind of tests. Please, keep us updated!

Matthias

 

[sharroff]

Airgun Bill,



Your pigeons and my gel and.squirrel agree (same results with no expansion). I guess 850fps / 33 ft/lbs into a bird/squirrel isn't enough energy to create expansion on a .22 caliber NSA 20.2s. Same shot into modelling clay has a completely different result. I wonder if they are using a different metal formulation now than originals?



I think I stil have some lighter NSA .22s left. I'll send those into gel as fast as I can send them and see what happens tomorrow.

 

[AirgunBill]

Airgun Bill,



Your pigeons and my gel and.squirrel agree (same results with no expansion). I guess 850fps / 33 ft/lbs into a bird/squirrel isn't enough energy to create expansion on a .22 caliber NSA 20.2s. Same shot into modelling clay has a completely different result. I wonder if they are using a different metal formulation now than originals?



I think I stil have some lighter NSA .22s left. I'll send those into gel as fast as I can send them and see what happens tomorrow.

I thought maybe the slug you tested might be an NSA slug. I have yet to find any of the NSA slugs I have tested in different calibers to expand in the Clear Ballistics 10% or 20% calibrated gel. Its not to say I do not like NSA slugs as they are very well made, can be very accurate like many slugs with the right tune and a heck of an valve cost wise. I just would tend to use them for birds and smaller critters when expansion does not matter as much and head shots on larger game when penetration is needed. NSA is always updating and improving their products and has great customer service. As far as why the FX Hybrid .25 caliber don't expand much could be due to the sidewalls of the hollow point being too thick. I had someone comment on one of my videos that they might be redesigning the side walls of the FX Hybrid .25's to insure better expansion. It sounded like this person was involved with this slugs design. If I can find that comment I will post the video of mine with that comment. Bill

 

[JungleShooter]

AirgunBill,
here's an expanded NSA slug, Projectile Test PT021.  
It's by Donny Reed, from Baker Airguns. 



sharroff,
I'm finishing up yours right now, I'll PM you my questions. 



Great community.  

Matthias