Pellets keyhole at 20 yards.

[dormitionskete]

I've been having the worst time with the .177 cal Weihrauch HW97K we bought in February.

It does fine at ten yards. If I stretch it out to twenty, my groups go to pot and it seems that the pellets don't have enough energy behind them to penetrate even a single layer of cardboard. They often keyhole, or wadcutters often hit square on, and then just fall to the floor without even penetrating the paper. Some even seem to hit backwards.

I have a cardboard box filled with old catalogs and papers that I shoot at indoors. I ran out of all of that kind of stuff when I made the box, so the last 1 - 1 1/2 inches at the shooting side is just layers of cardboard, which is even less of a barrier than the other filler.

Some of you have suggested I put a Vortek or JM 12 ft lb kit in it to try to help with the inconsistent groups. And I've been open to that! But given the keyholing and lack of penetration, wouldn't that become even worse?

I live at the top of a mountain at 9200' ASL. Could it be that this gun -- and really, any spring gun -- is just not suited to the thin air up here?

I tried RWS and Meisterkugeln match pellets of various weights, and they didn't shoot any better groups than the cheap Crosman Premiers or JSB Exact pellets I was using. They keyhole, too, and the first 9.3 gr RWS Supermag pellet that I tried didn't even leave the barrel. Subsequent ones did, though.

Am I right when I think that the keyholing is from the pellets becoming unstable in flight, and the lack of penetration is most likely simply from lack of velocity?

This kind of behavior doesn't sound right, does it? Those of you who live at more reasonable altitudes don't have these issues, do you?

Thoughts or advice appreciated!!!

 

[marflow]

age of the rifle and condition of the breech seal

of course if the rifle has some age the spring could be broken on an end and you are get very low power

a chronograph would tell you if the power is low and with out one it would be hard

if the rifle has some age on it or new used to you a rebuild could be in order but a new breech seal would be a place to start if old, it would be change out in a rebuild

you need to tell us more about the rifle and then we can all guess what is wrong with it

did it ever shoot right???????

here is some altitude testing

https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/02/shooting-airguns-at-altitude/

 

[dormitionskete]

It's a new Weihrauch HW97K bought in February. It's always shot like this.

It shoots great at 10 yards. Anything farther than that, forget it.

 

[marflow]

so back to the breech seal, in place and looks ok and is the barrel crown ok cotton swab test

did you talk to the seller about this problem and do you have any other air rifles to compare to

there is something wrong, that is for sure

low power 10 meter rifle make nice clean hole at 500-600 fps that 97 even at that altitude should be way above that

so have you come off the mountain and tested at a lower altitude just for a test

if this were my gun it would have went back to the seller

even though there are very smart people on this forum and other you must understand we can only guess

it's down on power but why, I don't own a 97 but guys if he takes the stock off how much spring could he see, could he see a broken spring

don't know the answer

 

[nervoustrig]

Indeed it would be useful to know the velocity, however given the the lack of cardboard penetration and stuck RWS Supermag, there's no doubt in my mind it's either a broken spring or damaged seal. While it's rare on a relatively new rifle from a quality manufacturer like Weihrauch, it's not unheard of.

The fact you're seeing keyholing at such a short distance tips my suspicions to the seal. If there's sufficient leakage, there's no air cushion for the piston and it will slam violently into the end of the compression chamber, which is certainly apt to cause a harsh shot cycle and make it group poorly. It's not so obvious that it would manifest as keyholing however.

 

[Skillet]

First thing I’d do is check the crown for a burr. Might need polishing.

Even if the powerplant needs work, pells shouldn’t keyhole/tumble

 

[RogerV53]

How tight do the pellets fit in the barrel, almost sounds like your shooting .177 pellets through a .20 cal barrel.

 

[dormitionskete]

How tight do the pellets fit in the barrel, almost sounds like your shooting .177 pellets through a .20 cal barrel.

RWS, Meisterkugeln and JSB Exacts are all tight every time. Crosman Premiers are anywhere from tight to loose from one pellet to the next. Poor quality control. But the cheap Crosman 7.4 gr. Pointed pellets consistently shoot on top of each other at 10 yards. They're the best at 10 yards, but the worst beyond that. But they are the only pellet we have that doesn't keyhole.

Getting off the mountain to test it lower would be problematic at best.

I bought the gun from Krale. Probably a big mistake. But they were $100 less than AoA or anywhere else I could find in America, and that made the difference between being able to get it or not. I guess I'll have to write them. Writing Weihrauch is useless. I've written them a couple of times about other things. Waste of time. Both times they were slow to respond and then simply said to contact the seller.

Thanks, guys. At least you confirmed that something isn't right here!

I appreciate it.

 

[SeeOhTwo]

I'm with Roger until you made that last post. This thing should be busting through 1/4" plywood at 875 fps if it was in tip top shape. I'd put a new spring, seal kit and breech seal in and be done with it. It probably needs all of the above anyway. I wouldn't shoot it anymore till then.

Glenn in Texas

 

[marflow]

even with Krale in the Netherlands if you are not happy with something you bought there they will send you a call tag and have it picked up for return and ship some else or the same

there customer service is the best

and even now that is where I would head to get this solved

 

[dormitionskete]

Thanks, guys. I'll write Krale and see what they say. If they aren't willing or able to help us with this, we'll just try to sell it "as is" for a loss and be done with it. I'm tired of messing with it.

I appreciate your help.

What a mess!!!

 

[dormitionskete]

Krale written! We'll see what they have to say...

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

Twenty yards and not penetrating cardboard !! Tells me velocity is extremely low. What does the breech seal look like ? Breech seals don't wear out that fast so I would rule that out. Missing seal.....YES ! Worn seal.....NO ! My guess is either a broken spring, damaged piston seal, or galling has occured between the cylinder wall and piston.