Pistol for small game? Zoraki-hp-1/HW-45/crossman 1377

[Savagefox]

Hi lads, I want a pistol for close range small game, it has to be powerfull enough to drop a rabbit/hare and accurate enough to do it with one shot.

It can't be pcp (I had a very bad experience with my pp800 with constant leaking problems), but it can be a co2 as long as it is eficient at very low temps and its a repeater (cause if it's gonna be a single shot, I prefer going springer/pneumatic)

Also, it must be under 30 cm/11,8 inch excluding moderator, so no Hatsan supercharger or other bulky abominations.



My primary choise would be the Zoraki Hp-1/Webley Alecto, it's small (for an air pistol) powerfull and precise, my main concern is if it can hold the pressure after 3 pumps indefinetly (until you spot the game) without stressing the seals or afecting the gun at long term. Any experiences about manual pump guns holding the pressure?

Other option is the eternal crossman 1377, it was my first airgun and I love it until mother trew it to the garbage can, but man those 10 pumps... also is a bit larger than I want, but anyways, can it hold the pressure after 10 pumps until you spot the game? is it bad for the gun to do it?

Finally I put an eye on the WH-45, a springer, I think it's gonna be less precise than a pneumatic-no recoil gun, but it's compact and has the power to dispatch that succulent rabbit at close ranges. Can the spring become loose if I maintain it charged for long time?



That's my primary options, but I'm open to recomendations, specially if they are cheaper.

 

[biohazardman]

You have been here before. Good luck finding a Zoraki Hp-1/Webley Alecto I have been looking for years for one at a decent price. The very few I mange to find, after hours of searching, are always gone before I get there.

Co2 is near useless at very low temperatures. A spring gun, in pistol form, is lower powered and hard to shoot well. A PCP is best for your application but you don't want one. So, once again, you are back to the 1377 that your mom tossed for some unknown reason.

There are enough aftermarket parts for them to make yer head spin. With a decent metal barrel band, a metal breech, longer barrel, flat top valve and piston and a couple of valve mods you can have the pistol that will take you to nirvana. But it can get spendy, along the way, so be careful. Do a little at a time and enjoy.

https://maverickcustomairguns.com/product-category/crosman-upgrade-parts/crosman-1377-1322-parts/

https://onlinestore.magnumairpower.com/t/custom-upgrade-parts

https://cothranmachine.com/crosman-parts/

https://alliancehobby.com/masterclass.htm

 

[Savagefox]

Nice little gun you have.

Yes I been here asking more or less the same, but under 100 bucks wich I realise is imposible. Can the 1377 hold the pressure for large amounts of time? Did that affect the sealings or reduce the lifespan of the gun? Is esential that I can shot the game inmediately, that pesky rabbit aren't gonna whait for me while I'm pumping.

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

Man, that's a bummer. I was going to recommend a pp800 I've got 2. There's 3 orings and the valve seal that hold pressure in the gun. 

If that's out the window, I'd be tempted to get a zoraki. I've got 2 1322s, and I like them, but it's not a gun I would try to tune or modify on a budget and expect any real accuracy or performance from. (power, sure, but the amount of pumping needed takes away from that) Out of 4 factory crosman pistol barrels I've got tin in the past 4 years, none of them were accurate. If you get a Crosman, get a c02 2250 or 2240 from the custom shop. I think they hand pick barrels for the custom shop guns. 

 

[nervoustrig]

Regarding whether a 1377 will hold pressure, yes provided the pump cup is in good shape, it will hold pressure indefinitely. The pressure from the last pump keeps it bulged out tightly against the walls of the pump tube to prevent a loss of pressure.

The valve also has a spring-loaded check valve so I think you have a belt-and-suspenders kind of thing. Meaning even if the pump cup leaks, the check valve should retain the valve pressure. That may or may not work out in practice if either half of the seat has a poor fit or surface finish, but suffice it to say your odds are quite good it will hold because two things have to be bad for it to leak down.

Note there will be some diminishing of pressure by way of the air cooling down. It heats up quite a bit when pumping so if you’ve zeroed it in a typical shooting session, you will have heated it up a fair amount. Later on, when you pump it up and then give it time to cool, it will have lost some pressure. It’s probably not an issue at typical pistol distances but it would be a good idea to test this scenario if you will be using it past 20 yards or so.

With all that said, I agree with biohazardman that a PCP is really the better option. The first time you miss a bunny with the clacker and it runs a short distance and stops and freezes, you will agree too

 

[DARKHORSE1967]

The Zoraki HP were available from this store for quite a while:



https://maxarmory.com/search?q=hp01



From what I know is that you can order one, provided there is ample interest involving numerous buyers.

They were in stock sometime late last year.

 

[Ripper]

Well you thought about a HW45 and that would fit the bill good for what you want. Plenty enough power for rabbits and accurate. A little pricey though. 

 

[DARKHORSE1967]

The HW 45 is hard to master.

 

[Vetmx]

I’ve had a Webley Alecto since they came out. Trouble free gun and crazy accurate. You get what you pay for.

 

[Savagefox]

I’ve had a Webley Alecto since they came out. Trouble free gun and crazy accurate. You get what you pay for.

Precious! do you ever try to leave it charged for some time before the shoot? any leaks or loss of power?

 

[Vetmx]

I never did that test. It only gets shot a couple times a year just for maintenance purposes. If you get serious about one of these pistols and can actually find one to buy, I can do a leak down test for you. 

 

[Savagefox]

In my country they sell it at 300 bucks, quite pricey... but I found an export for 200, and also a second hand one for 150 that I want to purchase for aroud 120 in the next days, a test like that would greatly help.

 

[Vetmx]

I will shoot it through the chronograph then pump it 3 times and let it sit until I get back home and I’ll shoot it again. I’ll be gone around 4 hours so I will post up when I get home.

 

[Odoyle]

PHONE THEM Buy their custom shop with long Lothar Walther barrel.

 

[Vetmx]

586, 580, 580, let it sit pumped up for around 4 hours. Shot it through chronograph and it was 564. So yes it lost a little sitting. On a positive note there are guys shooting $500 PCP’s with bigger spreads than that over a series of shots.

 

[nervoustrig]

Yeah that’s not bad for typical pistol distances. That small velocity difference may simply be a result of the pressure drop from cooling down. May not have lost any actual air over the 4 hours.

 

[Savagefox]

Great, probably the small drop is caused by the cooling of the air.



The Zoraki is the ideal gun for my purposes then.

 

[Feinwerk]

I have a Webley Alecto Ultra (Zoracki) in 177. I have lamented the disappearance from the US market. With just a little refinement, I think this would be an awesome pistol. Self contained and accurate, it can be used with one to four pumps, and has plenty of power for small game. Rabbits don't need much power for head shots. They are loud though.

I made an elementary wire stock and got a DonnyFL adapter and Tanto moderator. I had to remove a few thousanths of metal from the end of the barrel to let the adapter slip on. I drilled the rear housing for easy inspection and cleaning of the bore.

I have no data on charge holding over time. Here's my chrono data using H&N Barracuda match with 4.53mm heads, the best heavy pellet for mine:

1 pump - 330 FPS/2.6 FPE

2 pumps - 460/5.0

3 pumps - 550/7.2

4 pumps - 605/8.7

I also have a Beeman P1 Springer. It makes about 525 FPS with lightweight JSB express 7.33 grain pellets. I put a red dot on it. Just barely enough power to penetrate a tough squirrel hide inside 15 yd, and should do OK on rabbits at that range. However, the pistol jumps a lot during the shot cycle and can be extremely frustrating to group well. It is very hold sensitive.

 

[Odoyle]

You have been here before. Good luck finding a Zoraki Hp-1/Webley Alecto I have been looking for years for one at a decent price. The very few I mange to find, after hours of searching, are always gone before I get there.

Co2 is near useless at very low temperatures. A spring gun, in pistol form, is lower powered and hard to shoot well. A PCP is best for your application but you don't want one. So, once again, you are back to the 1377 that your mom tossed for some unknown reason.

There are enough aftermarket parts for them to make yer head spin. With a decent metal barrel band, a metal breech, longer barrel, flat top valve and piston and a couple of valve mods you can have the pistol that will take you to nirvana. But it can get spendy, along the way, so be careful. Do a little at a time and enjoy.

https://maverickcustomairguns.com/product-category/crosman-upgrade-parts/crosman-1377-1322-parts/

https://onlinestore.magnumairpower.com/t/custom-upgrade-parts

https://cothranmachine.com/crosman-parts/

https://alliancehobby.com/masterclass.htm

SIA was really meant for you!

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/bsa-defiant-2/

 

[JUNGLEGHOST]