I find it interesting how so many top shooters at EBR this year shot Daystate. Even the winner from last year who won with a FX Crown shot a redwolf. Call me skeptical, not that Daystate doesn't make a great gun but the numbers that suddenly showed up in the pro class were astounding.
Politics?
- Thread starter sonny
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I’ve held both back to back and also shot a red wolf...... my personal opinion, I would take it over a crown or impact. Once again it’s just my personal opinion plus the bc on those 22cal 25grn pellets has got to help. Look at the how big the 6mm and 6.5mm powder burners have caught on. It’s about bc speed and how they handle the wind.
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Cleary they were handed out to top shooters in an attempt to get the brand more recognized. I have never been to a more political event. Honestly it took most the fun out of the event.
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EBR would not be the big event that it is without support from the airgun manufacturers. Manufacturers support these kind of events to gain brand recognition and thus market share. Who will it be next year???
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So.... you don't think the competitors would choose guns, of their own preference, that they had the most confidence in?
You think that they would shoot a rifle that they felt was inferior to their first choice, simply because it was given to them?
The Red Wolf HP is obviously a game changing model that was not available until earlier this year. I think that the competitors who were shooting Red Wolves were doing so because the gun gave them the confidence to shoot at the top of their ability. And I think the same is true for those who were shooting FX and other brands.
Next year, there may be another game changing air rifle available that could show strongly - not because manufacturers will be giving them away, but because competitors tried them, trusted them, believed they could win with them, and decided to compete with them.
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Maybe it should of been the RWEBR all others welcome shoot! J/K But on a serious note there are a lot of good shooters out there that just can’t afford these top line airguns so maybe a Extreme EBR class for airguns over 1700 dollars and then a General EBR class for those under 1700 dollars, I bet a lot more folks would participate knowing that they aren’t going up against These high tech airguns and it would probably get a few more manufacturers involved, that’s just my way of thinking besides why should I try to compete with a 2300.00 airgun with my 600.00 airgun so why even go. Again this is just MOPO.
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Yeah... I can see how some folks with a $600 gun might be a bit discouraged trying to compete with shooters who have $2000-$2600 guns.
Then again, some of those $600-$1000 rifles can be just as accurate in the right hands!
Then again, some of those $600-$1000 rifles can be just as accurate in the right hands!
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"...Then again, some of those $600-$1000 rifles can be just as accurate!"
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Fair enough.
Based on what you just said, that makes it quite plausible that a top gun manufacturer would distribute their rifles to top shooters, knowing that the ability of the shooters is what sets the field apart.
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Fair enough.
Based on what you just said, that makes it quite plausible that a top gun manufacturer would distribute their rifles to top shooters, knowing that the ability of the shooters is what sets the field apart.
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Yeah... I can see how some folks with a $600 gun might be a bit discouraged trying to compete with shooters who have $2000-$2600 guns.
Then again, some of those $600-$1000 rifles can be just as accurate in the right hands!
That’s what I mean there are good shooters out there that might get a bit intimidated going up against a 2300-2600 dollar airgun and not sign up.
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No doubt that some manufacturers (to include FX and Daystate) may well have given some guns to some top competitors! But is it plausible that the majority or even many of the Red Wolfs that were on the line were provided to those competitors for free? I seriously doubt that.
THE salient point here is that if the gun (regardless of how it was obtained) was not up to the top competitor's best ability, I don't think many (if any) of those top competitors would choose to use the gun in Extreme competition.
The gun (whether paid for or provided for free) needs to be up to the competitor's skill level, otherwise, they know they're not competing at the best of their ability, and unless they're just desperate to have a nice gun for free (not highly likely)... why would they choose to use a gun that would impede their ability to compete?
I still think that even if guns from FX or Daystate were provided for free, that top competitors who are seriously interested in winning wouldn't use them in competition unless the guns perform at least as well as, if not better than, alternative choices. I sure wouldn't, and I'm not competing with anyone but myself!
The FX Impact rifles weren't chosen by many in previous years simply because they may have been provided for free. And the same goes for the Red Wolf in the 2018 EBR. These guns are excellent guns, highly capable in the right hands, and generally allow the competitors to perform at the best of their ability.
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Maybe but there are folks that can afford these expensive guns without dealer/manufacturers help and are also good shooters and for one of them to beat a sponsored shooter is even a better feeling for them.
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Looking down a firing line and seeing Brocock, Evanix, Marauder, Kral, Hatsan would be fun to see.
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"Maybe but there are folks that can afford these expensive guns without dealer/manufacturers help and are also good shooters and for one of them to beat a sponsored shooter is even a better feeling for them."
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Are there folks that can "afford these expensive guns without dealer/manufactures help", yet would accept the use the free gun and not be bothered at all about being a sponsored shooter?
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Are there folks that can "afford these expensive guns without dealer/manufactures help", yet would accept the use the free gun and not be bothered at all about being a sponsored shooter?
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It would be interesting to see! Reminds me of something.
Yeah. Diversity. That's the hot ticket in the USA today. Move over top-shelf, high achievers. If you're a successful, older, white, protestant, male... shame, shame, shame!
You need to apologize for that and cower in the corner! Hahaha! That's the media drumbeat of today in the so-called "news" AND in advertising!I definitely have politics on my mind tonight! Go Big Red in November!
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Trigger time, consistency in equipment performance followed by the mental aspect of the shooting. I have participated twice at EBR and was a spectator for 2 years prior to that. It is my opinion that those 3 factors pretty much in that order have the greatest influence on the results. I will guarantee you that anyone who placed in the top five - ten in each category spent quite a bit of time shooting their guns (not just the ones they used at EBR) in the months / years prior to EBR. The other reason for the number of .22 caliber rifles competing was due to the extra cash bonus incentives for competitors using .22 caliber or smaller rifles. (Follow the money. If you can win more money by shooting a smaller caliber rifle why would you not take on that challenge. Greater reward and bigger challenge). They have different classes of competitors (sportsman and pro) so that the average "Joe" is competing against similar competition. The sportsman class is separate from the pro class which is where you find the top shooters. Once you place in the sportsman class you are automatically kicked up to the pro class for future events.
The more expensive guns tend to offer more consistent performance. You can also spend a lot of time and money modifying a less expensive rifle to get the same performance. Just like with cars. You can buy nice American made sports cars. They however don't quite compare to German and Italian made sports cars. Can you modify them to get close to the Germans and Italians? Sure. Same applies to air rifles. For these same reasons these cars do not all compete in the same classes of competition. Same with the drivers. Those who spend more time on the track tend to do better than the "weekend warriors".
I do not understand what seems to me "sour grapes". They (AoA primarily) try to make it a fun event and encourage participation. I shot right behind a former world champion in the field target competition. I tried to watch and learn as much as possible. I was scheduled to participate in the sportsman class in the extreme bench rest competition. Due to a family situation I was not able to make it to my scheduled relay. I showed up later and was just going to watch. One of the AoA employees saw me and asked what happened. They asked if I wanted to still shoot and were able to get me in the final relay with the "pro" class. I welcomed the opportunity as I just wanted to shoot. I was sandwiched between Matt Dubber and Rossi from American Air Gunner. I shot the best I two cards ever. If I had been competing in my scheduled sportsman class I would have finished in 4th place and been in the finals for the sportsman class. Instead I was watching the finals. I still enjoyed myself and learned a thing or two. I would encourage anyone to go to any competition and participate. If you do it with an open mind you will have fun and learn a thing or two. Just my thoughts and opinion on the topic right wrong or otherwise.
The more expensive guns tend to offer more consistent performance. You can also spend a lot of time and money modifying a less expensive rifle to get the same performance. Just like with cars. You can buy nice American made sports cars. They however don't quite compare to German and Italian made sports cars. Can you modify them to get close to the Germans and Italians? Sure. Same applies to air rifles. For these same reasons these cars do not all compete in the same classes of competition. Same with the drivers. Those who spend more time on the track tend to do better than the "weekend warriors".
I do not understand what seems to me "sour grapes". They (AoA primarily) try to make it a fun event and encourage participation. I shot right behind a former world champion in the field target competition. I tried to watch and learn as much as possible. I was scheduled to participate in the sportsman class in the extreme bench rest competition. Due to a family situation I was not able to make it to my scheduled relay. I showed up later and was just going to watch. One of the AoA employees saw me and asked what happened. They asked if I wanted to still shoot and were able to get me in the final relay with the "pro" class. I welcomed the opportunity as I just wanted to shoot. I was sandwiched between Matt Dubber and Rossi from American Air Gunner. I shot the best I two cards ever. If I had been competing in my scheduled sportsman class I would have finished in 4th place and been in the finals for the sportsman class. Instead I was watching the finals. I still enjoyed myself and learned a thing or two. I would encourage anyone to go to any competition and participate. If you do it with an open mind you will have fun and learn a thing or two. Just my thoughts and opinion on the topic right wrong or otherwise.
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glassman... I absolutely concur. I don't see any reason for "sour grapes" from anyone with regard to the competition, nor to what equipment happened to be used last year, or this year, or any year. I'm glad to see Daystate more represented, as last year seemed to be almost all FX. Having some different brands rise up in the competition is nice. We common "pellet pushers" can well appreciate the advancement in equipment that competition fosters.
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Though I don't shoot traditional airgun benchrest competition, I've always enjoyed consistently beating the most retentive field target and silhouette shooters using the most advanced airguns that technology and marketing can muster, at the highest levels of those airgun competitions, while (myself) using the oldest and/or least-advanced airguns competing. Makes me think that even in equipment races, it ain't necessarily all about the equipment.
Since 2012 when I converted a 1960's vintage Crosman 187 Co2 rifle to regulated high-pressure air pistol, it has captured 3 State and 3 National Champion field target titles. Brand new, this gun cost LESS THAN THIRTY BUCKS!
In the 1980's I used this stock, 1950s-vintage .22 Crosman 160 Co2 rifle to capture a Texas State Champion title and two NRA National Record certificates against fields of the best .177 springers of the time (TX200s, HW97s and Whiscombe). The 160 sold brand new for closer to TWENTY BUCKS!
In 2009 I took second place in the Field Target National Championships (in Hunter Class) with this QB77 Chinese-made Co2 rifle that I converted to regulated high-pressure air. I finished 2 points behind the "National Champion" on the 120 shot weekend; but he's now been banned from field target for cheating. It has now come to light that in 2009 he used a scope modified to actually magnify 22-24X when set at the 12X position, so I'm the rightful 2009 Champ. BTW my rifle and scope cost less than $300; his was a $3000+ rig.
Many competitors succumb to the "performance at any price" and "money can buy performance" mentality. And of course money can buy performance; but only so much. Unfortunately some competitors of such mindset will actually cross the line of legality in their exuberance to win at any cost! Occasionally one gets caught; but folks, they are out there.
Since 2012 when I converted a 1960's vintage Crosman 187 Co2 rifle to regulated high-pressure air pistol, it has captured 3 State and 3 National Champion field target titles. Brand new, this gun cost LESS THAN THIRTY BUCKS!
In the 1980's I used this stock, 1950s-vintage .22 Crosman 160 Co2 rifle to capture a Texas State Champion title and two NRA National Record certificates against fields of the best .177 springers of the time (TX200s, HW97s and Whiscombe). The 160 sold brand new for closer to TWENTY BUCKS!
In 2009 I took second place in the Field Target National Championships (in Hunter Class) with this QB77 Chinese-made Co2 rifle that I converted to regulated high-pressure air. I finished 2 points behind the "National Champion" on the 120 shot weekend; but he's now been banned from field target for cheating. It has now come to light that in 2009 he used a scope modified to actually magnify 22-24X when set at the 12X position, so I'm the rightful 2009 Champ. BTW my rifle and scope cost less than $300; his was a $3000+ rig.
Many competitors succumb to the "performance at any price" and "money can buy performance" mentality. And of course money can buy performance; but only so much. Unfortunately some competitors of such mindset will actually cross the line of legality in their exuberance to win at any cost! Occasionally one gets caught; but folks, they are out there.
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I've never been compelled to compete and try to beat the performance of other people; it just doesn't draw my interest with all the structures, rules, requirements, registrations, time constraints, showing up at certain times & places, etc. It's just not 'my thing.'
And, yes, such competitions can help make better shooters AND sometimes they "turn" people in negative ways.
BUT, I do very much LOVE to compete with myself and better my shooting abilities at every turn! I try to shoot better every DAY, than I did the previous day – if I can possibly do so. (I shoot about 100 pellets a day.)
And equipment does play a part in that. If I find that my equipment is impeding me in any way, I'm ready to switch that out!
But relentless practice and developed skills play a huge role, as well. It ALL needs to come together for one's performance to rise higher and higher, whether you want to beat others in competition, or just become the best shooter you can be.
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