PP700 Shooters

[Greenarrow]

What pellets are you shooting?



What size groupings are you getting rested? And at what distances?



I recently received mine and it’s not shooting like I had anticipated. I’m getting around 1” at 25-30 yards rested on a bag. Is this “normal” or should I be expecting better results? I’m shooting with a scope.

I'm shooting JSB RS 7.3 .177 cal pellets. (Edit)



Thanks

 

[mmahoney]

I'm shooting JSB 13.43 grain RS pellets at 633 fps (a hair under 12 FPE). I have it zeroed at 25m (27.4 yards) and shoot with a red dot. I usually shoot 1/2 inch groups but also often shoot 1" groups and occasionally bigger. I find even shooting off a bag that a pistol is more difficult to remain consistent. Pulling my shots is more frequent without a stock to stabilize against my shoulder. The red dot also limits my precision.

What pellets are you using?

 

[Motorhead]

Started life as a .177, getting modified with an LW barrel, then an In-Tube HuMa regulator. got shot with a 3x12 scope at the 2017 AAFTA nationals and now is in it's final configuration sporting a TJ's .25 cal barrel and Micro Dot scope. Now a very fun big bore running @ 15 ft lbs shooting JSB Kings @ 500 fps

Accuracy with the OEM barrel never impressed me. once fitted with the .177 LW barrel sub 3/8" groups at 25 yards was typical. Now sporting a 1/4 bore there is much increased muzzle flip, but can still shoot inside 1/2" if you taco hold the scope and keep the recoil minimal.

 

[Raden1942]

Im getting 1/2 inch at 15yards standing with carbine stock. Havent stretched its legs to 30 yet. Im shooting stock 177 using crosman premier domes and wad cutters. I cant tell the difference between them. I sort and wiegh them to reduce fliers. 2 things bother me about this gun tho. I haven't figured out how to polish and adjust the trigger yet and it definitely needs it. It is my main gripe with this gun. Lots of creep and super gritty then its anyones guess when it will fire. I heard theres some good videos out there i just need to find them. 2nd is the barrel seems to rest in the shroud a little unstable. I say it seems because this is a case where my eyes were telling me the barrel was going to move after every shot but the gun works fine. I would still like to do something about that though. Anyways I plan to do a little work cleaning her up but lw barrels and expensive regulators wont ever be my thing. I bought this girl to beat up in the forest and kill canopy rats. I would love to learn how to tune her up a bit tho. 

 

[nervoustrig]

To me, one inch groups with a pistol at 25-30 yards is pretty respectable. Even with it rested on a bag, my groups were around 2x as big compared to when I added the folding shoulder stock.

I did get some nice groups on occasion when I had it as a pistol. Here's a 25 yard group with Polymags running about 13fpe in .177 cal.


Since then I downtuned it to around 6fpe and it took a liking to RWS Supermags. These groups are at 25 yards with the shoulder stock fitted:



Have you thoroughly experimented with a broad range of domed pellets already? The difference between 1in groups and 1/2" groups could easily be the pellets. You didn't say what caliber you have but whether .177 or .22, the perennial ones I go to are JSB in all weights, although it's reasonable to skip the Monsters and Beasts since this is a pistol. If possible, try the Air Arms equivalents too because they are made with different dies. And H&N FTT and Baracuda Match. The vast majority of the time, I find it to be one of these that group best.

The other thing is give the crown a careful inspection with magnification and good lighting. All 3 of my SPA guns had abysmal crowns. Unfortunately that's par for the course with most of the budget Chinese guns. The good news is they all performed great once the workmanship issues were sorted out. BTW I drafted a DIY guide on barrel troubleshooting that you can read here if you're interested https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=130555

 

[Motorhead]

Had to dig back @ 3 years & resource photobucket .... this with the LW barrel fitted at 25 yards http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u532/scott_schneider1/DSCF0002_zps3zmpvh8s.jpg



also http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u532/scott_schneider1/DSCF0003_zps225tnavo.jpg

 

[Greenarrow]

Ok. Thanks guys! It sounds like I'm around average for these pistols.



I have already been thinking about a different barrel. There are two tight spots in the bore. They are about 1.5 inches in from each end. I can see three marks (in the bore) at each spot where the tight spots are. 



I'm shooting JSB RS 7.3 .177 cal pellets. I tested the usual suspects in the pellet choices out there. JSB, AA, H&N, Crosman(tins). The RS came out champs and the CPUM from the tin was a close second. No difference in performance with or without the moderator.



I did take the gun down and I touched up the crown (sharp/rough). It was shooting those pellets at 680 fps average before taking it down. I have not chronied it since resembling. I did no mods other than the barrel and lubing the trigger parts. Also replaced the breech o-ring to try and eliminate the blowby when firing. Temporary success there. It blows by again. Gonna replace with some better quality seals eventually.



Something that is a concern to me is the barrel /shroud set up. I may get a dovetail to picatinny rail to span the entire dovetail groove across the body of the pistol and the barrel shroud/cover. I'm thinking maybe that would help to stabilize the barrel and possibly improve groups? My front scope mount is on the barrel shroud and the rear is on the body. I have been shooting with my left hand on top of the scope while rested on a bag. Maybe I am causing some of the variation by the pressure of my hand? Just some thoughts.



Overall I like the pistol. I think I'm like many of you and I desire precision with my airguns.

 

[nervoustrig]

Oh, I'm sorry to hear the barrel is suspect...but also glad that you've taken the initiative to examine yours. GI Joe had a saying about that. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0eD5ABK0wc

As I mentioned above, I have 3 SPA rifles and all of them had rough machining typical of budget guns. Fortunately they grouped great after some basic deburring and smoothing so that suggested to me that SPA is doing fine in terms of the bore itself. Most of the stuff I've read on the forums agreed but it sounds like the barrel on yours is questionable at least. On an unchoked barrel like this, it certainly has more potential to negatively affect things than if it were choked. What I would do is push a few different pellets through and pay careful attention to how much force it takes to push them through the first portion of the barrel compared to near the muzzle, particularly the last inch or so. If it's obviously moving like a greased pig before it emerges into the world, it's a problem. Might want to contact the vendor and see about a replacement but if you have the means to fit an aftermarket barrel, it definitely seems to be a platform worthy of the effort.

For the breech O-ring, I replaced the spongy metric OEM O-ring with the nearest fit "inch" (AS-568) in 70 durometer Buna-N. According to my notes I used a -012. The OD is about 0.030" larger. I remember it was a bit finicky massaging it into place but I managed to do so without removing the block. It hasn't tried to pop out and most importantly it cured the puff of air that I had been getting.

Regarding stability of the shroud and barrel, I initially used a 1pc mount to lock the receiver and shroud together. However I've been using a 2pc mount for a few months now and the POI and groups have been very stable, even with mild bumps of the muzzle against my shooting table. How tight you can get the barrel nut with a spanner wrench would be the biggest factor. With sufficient torque, it puts the barrel under tension which is a good thing. So overall I don't have reason to think it's sensitive but I agree it would be a good idea to use a 1pc to erase that as a potential issue. Otherwise you'll always be wondering.

 

[Greenarrow]

Thanks Jason!



I am a little scared to put too much tension on the muzzle nut. I did get it pretty secure but I will address that again and I’ll try swapping the 2 piece rings out for a one piece and see if that changes things. I will grind the crown off and do it over completely. I’ll try to get some pictures of the “marks” inside the bore where the tight spots are. That’s going to be the tough part. There are 3 round marks equidistant apart around the circumference inside the bore approx 1.5 inches in from the muzzle and leade ends. That’s where the tight spots are when stuffing a tight patch through with a jag. Maybe I can work those areas with some sort of grinding/polishing compound to open them up some. I’ll do the pellet push through test first then after working the tight spots (if I do it).

Do you know where replacement barrels are available? Ha ha! I’m telling all I’m going to do with the barrel then ask about replacement barrels.... I might make it worse!! Maybe Scott (Motorhead) has a LW barrel ready to go that is for sale? Getting my ducks in a row... after seeing pictures of his results, that is enticing!



1” isn’t unacceptable (for my backyard plinking) but .5” and under at 25 yards would be much more pleasing. It’s always an adventure!

 

[nervoustrig]

No problem, I'm glad to help. Especially for someone like you who's rolling his sleeves up and getting in there to figure out what's up.

I'm curious to see the markings if you can manage a photo. Unfortunately despite working on quite a few barrels, I haven't had the occasion to try lapping out a constriction. The person that comes to mind is Ribbonstone on GTA. He's described his approach in a few threads so that would probably be easy to find if you're interested.

If you were to decide to get a replacement OEM barrel, I'm pretty sure you'd have to go the vendor and probably swap out the gun. For a while you could order parts directly from SPA but barrels were a negative due to ITAR trade restrictions. I'm not aware of a cookie-cutter aftermarket upgrade except to have a capable machinist or gunsmith like Scott do one for you.

 

[Motorhead]

I would love to learn how to tune her up a bit tho.

Hope I don't get into trouble doing a cross forum link ... but here is a EXTENSIVE thread i did @ 3 years ago when my PP700 adventure got started that even went as far to address barrel swaps & breech seal retrofits

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=105627.msg1001737#msg1001737



Scott S

 

[DirtyDovi]

I'm only shooting 10m indoors with mine,
but as for ammo, I've used all of the same pellets that I use with my rifles: [.22 cal version]

Crosman Premier 14g, JSB 18g, H&N 21g [Regular & Match] and a few others I'm forgetting 

My PP700S-A seems to love all of them. [Again, at relatively short range]

Also, that's on the OEM/Stock tune - No tinkering. Both Naked and Suppressed.

 

Sam -

 

[Greenarrow]

Just read the whole thread (linked). Thanks Scott! It has me drooling but left standing there with arms and hands out... I have no machines or skills to day those things you did. I’ll just have to keep it simple with the tools I do have.



Not too many postings out there on groups from these pistols when looking at Google. Your pictures are ones that did show up under the “images” tab when searching. It’s good to see a familiar name associated with the results. It validates them. Thanks!

 

[Greenarrow]

No problem, I'm glad to help. Especially for someone like you who's rolling his sleeves up and getting in there to figure out what's up.

I'm curious to see the markings if you can manage a photo. Unfortunately despite working on quite a few barrels, I haven't had the occasion to try lapping out a constriction. The person that comes to mind is Ribbonstone on GTA. He's described his approach in a few threads so that would probably be easy to find if you're interested.

If you were to decide to get a replacement OEM barrel, I'm pretty sure you'd have to go the vendor and probably swap out the gun. For a while you could order parts directly from SPA but barrels were a negative due to ITAR trade restrictions. I'm not aware of a cookie-cutter aftermarket upgrade except to have a capable machinist or gunsmith like Scott do one for you.

I’ll try and get some pictures... try. It is an interesting marking in there, faint but there and no visible marks on the outside of the barrel.

 

[nervoustrig]

Not too many postings out there on groups from these pistols when looking at Google. Your pictures are ones that did show up under the “images” tab when searching. It’s good to see a familiar name associated with the results. It validates them.

Seeing impressive results from a gun built by Scott is a bit like seeing David Gilmour step out on stage and blow away the crowd with an epic guitar solo like this:

https://youtu.be/LTseTg48568

Inspiring, yes. Surprising, no. Somehow loosely related to what I might achieve with persistence and a healthy dose of luck? Ahhh, maybe.

.

 

[bthurman]

Always check

Evening, I picked up a PP700SA used a week ago, A bit about PP700SA. Came with Huma regulator, JSAR breach block, extra carbon fiber barrel with DonnyFL adapter.
Filled it up and while it shot good there was a leak that would drain the tank in an hour and it did not sound right. So did a break down, first off you can see tool marks on tank back were they screwed off before apparently to install regulator. Went thru changed all orings set huma, then I removed the constant valve as they call it. I was well surprised all of the Belleville washers were rusted along with rust on the valve stem and nut. The gun was directly imported in March from manufacture. 

Short of it is replaced the Belleville washers, cleaned valve assembly, set reg, changed o-rings, set up hammer spring. Now she shoots ok have not had a chance to chrony but it sounds much better than before. But I am still plagued with a slow leak, albeit it is taking about 2 hours now to leak down. All mating surfaces are good, the pistol fires fine just cant stop that slow leak. 

But overall the Artemis is a blast to shoot, very accurate with my red dot, good power range, buy one if you have a chance despite above hassle it is well worth it.

 

[Hepotter]

Who sells a .25 caliber replacement barrel for my 700? I like that trigger grip mod too...where's that from?

I have a carbon shroud coming from JSA, if they ever get their ass in gear and ship it...it's been 3 weeks!!!

Is the Huma reg difference worth the cost???



EDIT: CF shroud finally arrived and it made a BIG difference in the 700's muzzle blast...very very quiet now!!!



Kindly 'Ol Uncle 



  "...sumbitches...I want a 750 ,and I want it now, not in August...hell I'll probably be dead by August!!!"

 

[Guest]

But I am still plagued with a slow leak, albeit it is taking about 2 hours now to leak down. All mating surfaces are good, the pistol fires fine just cant stop that slow leak.

I traced mine to the check valve. I smoothed the poppet surfaces and face with 400 grit sand paper and use 75 viton oring in place of the original. The old buna orings were getting nicked up by the poppet. So far my gun has been holding air for the last 3 months.

 

[Vetmx]

My stock barrel has the two tight spots exactly where yours are. I think its where they have it clamped when machining it with their old drill bit crowning and chamber tool. I joked on another forum that my barrel is double choked. It still shot as good as you could expect from a $225 pistol. I built a choked LW barrel for mine now. Some of the early reports on these guns had the plug that the barrel threads into spinning and guys were unable to tighten or loosen their barrels. I hoped mine would have this issue and make building a barrel much easier. Just remove the threaded plug, turn the donor barrel down to .395, slide it in the action and secure it with two grub screws. Well not my gun. That threaded plug is in there to stay. So every barrel I build has to have two tapers and be threaded on both ends. It sucks but at least I got good at it and barrel swaps are pretty slick. I am not overly judgmental on this guns accuracy. Its an awkward pistol and goofy carbine. I think it does well in both configurations. If you want more out of pistol, there is the Ataman 16. If you want more out of a goofy carbine, there is the Leshiy. I have all three of these guns and a $100 investment in a Huma reg, another $10 in orings and learning how to tear your gun apart is not a deal breaker on the PP700. You are still way below the cost of the Ataman which also needs silenced. My Ataman was twice as loud as my PP700 out of the box.

 

[Greenarrow]

I hope this hasn’t come off like I’m unhappy or complaining about the pistol, I’m not. I really enjoy it. I wasn’t overwhelmed with it’s accuracy so that is why I asked what others were getting with theirs. I read about how accurate this pistol is so I was curious how mine compared. 1” at 25-30 isn’t stellar (to me) so I thought that I possibly had a dud. I know they benefit from some TLC. It seems that mine is right on average for these guns. I can live with that. I ended up recrowning it a second time with some slight improvement? Maybe it’s mental.



Anyway, I set up some paintballs (.6” dia) at 30 yards and hit 5 for 5! The wind picked up and it took me 4 shots to “kill” that last paintball (#6).



I will attempt to try and get some images of those marks at the tight spots in the bore.



I wonder if I will see tighter groups when I get a stock attached? I’m guessing that I will.



The rain has stopped and the sun is out.... time to go shoot it some more before it’s time to head into work.