Praise for the Shoebox booster.

[BrazosbyNemo]

Sounds encouraging. To simplify things it would be nice is OCO Labs would have a Shoebox parts section with compatible parts they already produce for sale. That way when I go to their site I can go straight to that page and see quickly if they have what I need.

 

[Revoman]

BrazosbyNemo --=--

Please review this thread with a Shoebox spreadsheet that took me a long time to locate all of the parts, except the custom ones that only Mr. Kaye can provide.

*****UPDATE!***** Shoebox Parts List with Links *****UPDATE!*****

Hello AGN'ers! UPDATED***** Did some more work on the Shoebox parts with links spreadsheet. There are only a few now that are not found, I'll keep searching for those few and update again when found I have been working on an Excel spreadsheet for a long time, trying to duplicate all of the...

www.airgunnation.com

Mike

 

[BrazosbyNemo]

BrazosbyNemo --=--

Please review this thread with a Shoebox spreadsheet that took me a long time to locate all of the parts, except the custom ones that only Mr. Kaye can provide.

*****UPDATE!***** Shoebox Parts List with Links *****UPDATE!*****

Hello AGN'ers! UPDATED***** Did some more work on the Shoebox parts with links spreadsheet. There are only a few now that are not found, I'll keep searching for those few and update again when found I have been working on an Excel spreadsheet for a long time, trying to duplicate all of the...

www.airgunnation.com

Mike

Wow! You did a lot of work! This needs to be a sticky at the top of the page. Thanks!

 

[BenjaminM]

I’m late to the party unfortunately, I’d sure like to come across a shoebox compressor someday to have as a backup….

 

[bf1956]

As Scott said, no, there is nothing like it. I sometimes wish that somebody would replicate it out of China - then at least the costs would be low enough that it could compete against all the junk out there, and it would still be more robust as it was well designed from a load standpoint (along with everything else).

The dive compressors like the Alkin are great, but they are so over designed for what most of us need. They are made to run almost continuously from a duty standpoint for the dive industry, so ~200 hours in a month does occur with no issues - most of us would use them well under an hour a month for our typical air needs.

The Shoebox was (and fortunately for many us still is) an awesome machine for our needs. It offloaded the first stage to a common unit that many of us have anyways, allowed us to dry the air before it even entered the Box, and robustly provides plenty of air. I've had my Shoebox Max for a little over 10 years now, and I use it about 30-60 minutes per week, and just keeps going. I did upgrade it with the auto-lube kit, and now lube it with Krytox and the o-rings seem like they will last forever - I'm approaching 200 hours on the current o-rings with no signs of needing replacement.

A little over a year ago I was beginning to worry about what I would do if mine became irreparable, so when the opportunity presented itself I bought a very lightly used (less than 10 hours of run time) F10 to keep as a backup (plus I keep a healthy stash of parts, but we can't get everything anymore). Hopefully the Max won't die for a long time, but when it does I have one waiting in the wings - and I've already swapped the drive pulley in the F10 down to an F8 pulley to slow it down and reduce the load on the bearings and bushings. The increase in speed simply is not warranted in my book - the F8 speed really was the sweet spot for that compressor. I have the same pulley on my Max and it runs real well that way - a good bit faster than the original (about 30%) but still fairly calm. When I first tried the F10 it was almost scary fast, and I am more interested in long term reliability than absolute filling speed.

I too am a huge fan of the Shoebox compressor. Tom Kaye made a great unit, until it was chased from the market by the pursuit of faster fills at lower cost (and MUCH lower reliability). In the game of HPA, ideally we want reliable operation (long life / low maintenance), fast fills (big tank fills in well under an hour), and affordability (much lower cost than full dive compressors) in our air supply device - at best we can only get two of those three in any choice out there - and the Shoebox was really the only compressor to give us the first and third item in the list. Almost all of the current stuff from China seems to offer the second and third on the list - although I have to say the initial reports on the GX-CS4 look promising. IfI had to go with any of the new stuff, that just might be what I would choose.

What air dryer to use?

 

[AlanMcD]

What air dryer to use?

I currently use two on the input to my Shoebox, although I used just the first one for many years. The main one I use is a big Wilkerson silica bead desiccant dryer, the X03-02, and it is probably overkill but at the time I got it for a great price. I paid under $100 for it on sale, but now it goes for over $200 - it holds over 1.5 pounds for beads and last for years between recharging on my Shoebox. If buying today at normal prices I'd probably go with the X06 series as it costs about $100 these days. It only holds about a a quarter pound of desiccant, but that should still be plenty in this application.

I also run a small drier after the Wilkerson filled with Molecular Sieve as an extra step to drive the dew point even lower. I only added that one in the past year as an extra precaution, mostly because I just decided I would do so. I trusted the brute size of the Silica drier on it's own for a long time, but if I had gone with the smaller unit I probably would have put the second unit on it from the beginning. The second filteronly holds about 50 grams of media in it, but given how dry the air is coming out of the big Wilkerson it will last a long time as well - so far no signs of changing on it yet (I used indicating media on this one too).

Here is what the complete set up looks like - from left to right, a ball valve to shut off the whole air path when not in use, the big Wilkerson, the small Molecular Sieve filter, a 0.1 micron dust filter (media can throw off abrasive dust), and regulator to keep the input constant.

 

[bf1956]

I currently use two on the input to my Shoebox, although I used just the first one for many years. The main one I use is a big Wilkerson silica bead desiccant dryer, the X03-02, and it is probably overkill but at the time I got it for a great price. I paid under $100 for it on sale, but now it goes for over $200 - it holds over 1.5 pounds for beads and last for years between recharging on my Shoebox. If buying today at normal prices I'd probably go with the X06 series as it costs about $100 these days. It only holds about a a quarter pound of desiccant, but that should still be plenty in this application.

I also run a small drier after the Wilkerson filled with Molecular Sieve as an extra step to drive the dew point even lower. I only added that one in the past year as an extra precaution, mostly because I just decided I would do so. I trusted the brute size of the Silica drier on it's own for a long time, but if I had gone with the smaller unit I probably would have put the second unit on it from the beginning. The second filteronly holds about 50 grams of media in it, but given how dry the air is coming out of the big Wilkerson it will last a long time as well - so far no signs of changing on it yet (I used indicating media on this one too).

Here is what the complete set up looks like - from left to right, a ball valve to shut off the whole air path when not in use, the big Wilkerson, the small Molecular Sieve filter, a 0.1 micron dust filter (media can throw off abrasive dust), and regulator to keep the input constant.

View attachment 476110

Nicely done, very professional. Thanks for sharing.

 

[AlanMcD]

Well, being the new year and all that, I just updated my Excel log file with the data from my paper log file I keep with my Shoebox compressor. And after having this thing for going on 11 years, and only having to put new o-rings in the cylinder's once (I run Krytox oil on the autolube pads and the o-ring life is just so high now!), and noting that it still runs great - I thought I'd give it a little shout-out here in the forum in this thread . . . this thing is fantastic!

Over that time I figure that it has compressed almost 62 cubic meters of air up to 4500 psi, and I expect it will do that or more again long before it dies (and I have a backup one on hand if it ever does). That air has been used for lots of different guns, and of course some of it has just been vented as I've done maintenance on guns too. But to put it in perspective, had all that air been used for fills to shoot my ~30 FPE .22 Air Ranger (a fairly efficient gun), that would amount to ~178,000 shots taken via this compressor!

What a great design for our use. I sure wish they were still available so that many others could benefit from them . . . users just have to accept the tradeoff between speed and reliability for these great compressors. They are awesome for filling tanks as I find them to be a true "set it and forget it" compressor - just fire it up and go about other activities, and come back later when it's all done. Gotta love them!

 

[John "spysir" Blount]

Is there anything out there like the original Shoebox? Mine has been trouble free other than a couple routine rebuilds over the course of something like 15 years. Where it is electric powered it only needs a tiny/quiet compressor and an occasional dab of white lithium grease on the pistons. I am worried that mine will die at some point as parts are drying up. the Altaros while nice is air powered and requires a lot more first stage air IE a large compressor. I read about nothing but failures from what’s available today. Is anything worth buying?

The altaros only needs a husky hotdog compressor , $140.00 at home depot. Not that bad

John

 

[BlackICE]

Altaros is very energy inefficient. Not the best thing to use in some places where electrical cost can be much more than 50 cents a kilowatt hour. Compressing air at rates even matching a slow CS4 (11 lt/min) would take a 3 HP Compress running at 65% duty cycle. That is assuming the numbers are accurate. Most often when you buy a 3 HP compressor it really isn't 3 HP. How long will a low cost 3 HP compressor last? Also much nosier and bigger footprint.

altaros compressor booster unit advanced version

altaros compressor booster unit advanced version

www.altaros.cz

performance​

More info on Altaros compressor booster main web

altaros-compressor.com​

Altaros Compressor unit works on inlet pressure amplifiers principle. For these reasons, it is necessary for its function source of pressurized air. As a source of compressed air may be used ordinary workshop compressor that provides at least 5 bar and a maximum of 10bar. Bottle filling speed depends on high-pressure air and its amount supplied from the driving workshop compressor. For a better idea about the high-pressure air filling speed we have prepared a table with real measurement for different types of workshop compressors, that differ in amount of supplied air quantity and volume of the outlet pressure and compressor load in %. This “Load” figure represents the ratio of time in%, when driving the compressor is in operation (For example 65% indicates that the compressor drive 65% of the time is in operation and 35% of its motor is stopped and pressurized air is consumed to drive only from the compressor air chamber). In the table are shown times for filling bottles of different sizes and pressures and also the amount of supplied air, in liters per minute, which is a value that can be used to calculate the time required for filling bottles of any size and the desired pressure difference. For illustration, here is an example:

Bottle which we want to fill has a capacity of 7 liters and the requirement to fulfill it from the pressure of 100bar to 300bar pressure. First, we calculate the total quantity of air required to fill the bottle by multiplying its air volume sizes of the differential pressures, namely 7 x L (300-100 bar) = 1400L air at a pressure of 1 bar (atmospheric pressure). This result is then divided by the data in the table. When using these data:

Compressor Drive: Load 65% Supplied quantity: 11.4 L / min

We know that the driving compressor delivers 11.4 L / min

We can calculate the final time that required volume is divided by “Supplied quantity“, therefore

1400L /11,4 L/min = 122 minutes. Thus Filling 7 liters cylinders (from 100 to 300 bar) to desired pressure, it should take about two hours when using this drive compressor.

When we use a different driving compressor with different Supplied quantity 8,8L/min then our filling time would be 1400L / 8,8L/min = 160min

This way you can calculate the approximate filling time for different air volumes, pressure differences and different driving compressors.

Driving compressor: Schneider Bohemia: UNM 410-10-50 W

Input power 2,2kW / 3HP

2 cylinders

Max pressure. 10 bar

Air intake 410 l/min

Filling amount 295 l/min

Realistically measured amount of airflow 350 l/min

Driving compressor	Supplied quantity	Filling time for different airvolume and different pressure
4l, 200-300bar	0,8l z 100-200bar	0,3l , 1000-3000PSI
Load 100%	16l/min	25min	6.5min	3,75min
Load 65%	11,4l/min	35min	8,5min	4,5min

Driving compressor: Hecht 2351

Input power 2,2kW / 3HP

2 cylinders

Max pressure 8 bar

Air intake 400 l/min

Realistically measured amount of airflow 250 l/min

Driving compressor	Supplied quantity	Filling time for different airvolume and different pressure
4l, 200-300bar	0,8l z 100-200bar	0,3l , 1000-3000PSI
Load 100%	8,8l/min	45min	11min	5,7min
Load 65%	5,3l/min	75min	15min	8 min

Driving compressor: Scheppach HC 24

Input power 1,5 kW / 2 HP

1 cylinder

Max pressure 8 bar

Air intake 220 l/min

Realistically measured amount of airflow 125l/min

Driving compressor	Supplied quantity	Filling time for different airvolume and different pressure
4l, 200-300bar	0,8l z 100-200bar	0,3l , 1000-3000PSI
Load 100%	4,5l/min	90min	19min	9,5min
Load 65%	2,7l/min	150min	30min	15,5min

video​

 

[Revoman]

AlanMcD​

Alan!
As you know, I have had my Box for close to ten years and have also experienced good performance with little maintenance.
I have however, needed to replace a few items on mine such as:
1.) Burst Disk
2.) Both of the Bronze/Brass Piston Bushings (.125" and .25" pistons) at the Piston Support Post. I can't locate the .125" Bushing other than from OCO Labs.
3.) On/Off Switch.
4.) Of course, Fuses and Belts when needed.
This is for the F-10, which as we know uses a 21 Tooth Motor Pulley, making it faster for filling, but also tougher on the machine.
I have since abandoned the 21 Tooth Pulley and installed an 18 Tooth, which has slowed the machine, but really thinking to use a 15 Tooth Pulley. Next reseal I'm gonna install that 15 Tooth Pulley while I have it down.
I also live in a warm clime, so during the summer I cool the Box with ice water using a small radiator mounted to the back of the cooling fan. Water movement is provided via a small aquarium pump. Works well in 100° + weather!
Although it's normally dry here, low humidity (15% today), I still have a Shop Compressor Moisture Filter and a High-Pressure Moisture Filter post Box. This along with Alan's suggestion to have a long, coiled air-line hose to help mitigate moisture as well.
Everything runs "uphill": From the Shop Compressor, to the Compressor Filter, to the Box, to the High-Pressure Filter, to the Tank in trying to eliminate a possibility of moisture in the system. Yet I still seem to get some gunk inside the pistons, which I believe might be from over-lubrication on the oil pads (?).
And yes, I too have a backup if needed. I normally switch the Boxes (# 1 and #2) out when reseal is needed and use each until reseal is due. I have yet to attain 100 hours between reseals however, which is not per manufacture's statement. It's usually around 50 hours.
I have recently installed an Hour Meter, connecting it to the motor wiring to assure that it only registers when actually pumping/running making it much easier to track hours.
With Alan looking over my shoulder, I was able to create an extensive list of available parts, plus the ones that are "CUSTOM" possibly available from Mr. Kaye (?).
I REALLY like my Boxes and hope that they run for a long time.

mike

 

[AlanMcD]

AlanMcD​

Alan!
As you know, I have had my Box for close to ten years and have also experienced good performance with little maintenance.
I have however, needed to replace a few items on mine such as:
1.) Burst Disk
2.) Both of the Bronze/Brass Piston Bushings (.125" and .25" pistons) at the Piston Support Post. I can't locate the .125" Bushing other than from OCO Labs.
3.) On/Off Switch.
4.) Of course, Fuses and Belts when needed.
This is for the F-10, which as we know uses a 21 Tooth Motor Pulley, making it faster for filling, but also tougher on the machine.
I have since abandoned the 21 Tooth Pulley and installed an 18 Tooth, which has slowed the machine, but really thinking to use a 15 Tooth Pulley. Next reseal I'm gonna install that 15 Tooth Pulley while I have it down.
I also live in a warm clime, so during the summer I cool the Box with ice water using a small radiator mounted to the back of the cooling fan. Water movement is provided via a small aquarium pump. Works well in 100° + weather!
Although it's normally dry here, low humidity (15% today), I still have a Shop Compressor Moisture Filter and a High-Pressure Moisture Filter post Box. This along with Alan's suggestion to have a long, coiled air-line hose to help mitigate moisture as well.
Everything runs "uphill": From the Shop Compressor, to the Compressor Filter, to the Box, to the High-Pressure Filter, to the Tank in trying to eliminate a possibility of moisture in the system. Yet I still seem to get some gunk inside the pistons, which I believe might be from over-lubrication on the oil pads (?).
And yes, I too have a backup if needed. I normally switch the Boxes (# 1 and #2) out when reseal is needed and use each until reseal is due. I have yet to attain 100 hours between reseals however, which is not per manufacture's statement. It's usually around 50 hours.
I have recently installed an Hour Meter, connecting it to the motor wiring to assure that it only registers when actually pumping/running making it much easier to track hours.
With Alan looking over my shoulder, I was able to create an extensive list of available parts, plus the ones that are "CUSTOM" possibly available from Mr. Kaye (?).
I REALLY like my Boxes and hope that they run for a long time.

mike

It's strange that you can't get many hours out of your o-rings. I wonder why that is . . .

When I got my Shoebox Max, I ran it for the first hundred hours of use in the "as shipped" condition, lubing about every 2 hours with white lithium grease. At that point I installed the auto-lube kit and started lubing with silicone oil. I replaced the o-rings at ~140 hours, but they were still good - I just figured it was time to give it a try so I did. Now that 140 hours equals far less piston strokes than yours do, as mine still had the original small drive pulley on it.

I switched to lubing with Krytox oil shortly after the rebuild, and switched to the F8 pulley at about 180 hours, so most of the life on the current o-rings has been at F8 speeds (about 175 hours of run time). I don't plan to change these o-rings until I see a sustained fall off in fill speed.

I do always run mine in my basement, so it never sees ambient temps above about 68F, and I run it with the cover off and pretty high flow over the cylinders to keep the heat down - my IR thermometer says they never get above ~85F in temp. But Tom always said the thing that killed the o-rings was not the heat, but the mileage . . . hopefully you can start getting more life from yours. I do think the Krytox is a great way to go - it's expensive, but a small bottle lasts many years at just a few drops every 8-10 hours or so.

 

[Revoman]

AlanMcD​

Alan!

Yes, I plan to purchase some Kytox in the next day or so as your previous post related to a better lubricant.
Per our experiences, since you are using a slower fill pulley, it makes sense that you have more hours as it takes longer to fill. Mine takes less time, but as you stated, it is using more strokes per hour than your 13 Tooth Pulley (± 62% revolution increase). So, it likely evens out over the long haul (?).
I plan on reducing the pulley to a 15 Tooth, I believe that might be a good option. I already have the 15 Tooth on Box #1 and will make the switch on Box #2 when reseal is due.
I would like to figure out where the gray-colored goo inside the piston cylinders is emanating from though. It is what I believe to be the crux of the reseal intervals. I still use the white lithium lube on the pistons where the piston support post bushings are, but use silicone oil for the pad lube. Gonna see if maybe Krytox remedies that issue. Thanks for the tip!

mike