Is there anything out there like the original Shoebox? Mine has been trouble free other than a couple routine rebuilds over the course of something like 15 years. Where it is electric powered it only needs a tiny/quiet compressor and an occasional dab of white lithium grease on the pistons. I am worried that mine will die at some point as parts are drying up. the Altaros while nice is air powered and requires a lot more first stage air IE a large compressor. I read about nothing but failures from what’s available today. Is anything worth buying?
Praise for the Shoebox booster.
- Thread starter rokonman
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"Like" .... a Shoebox and we'll say operating on a similar concept, of a 2nd & 3rd stage pump utilizing a shop compressor for the 1st stage 100-125 psi or so ... sadly no there is not best i know.
The slew of chinese compressors that had Tom close up Shoebox due to pricing and staying competitive have COME AND GONE !!! Can't think of a single one that was made 10 years ago or so outside Hung Yang / Tuxing that was not proven to be a POS by comparison.
Personally in these last 10 years I've worn out no less than 3 various chinese units and working on a forth
Only compressor that has stood the test of time an Italian *NARDI Atlantic 100 dive compressor .. that at the time a 3+ grand unit.
* It is a TANK filler and way to fast for direct to PCP filling IMO ...
There is a whole lot of poop out there ... do your research !!!
The slew of chinese compressors that had Tom close up Shoebox due to pricing and staying competitive have COME AND GONE !!! Can't think of a single one that was made 10 years ago or so outside Hung Yang / Tuxing that was not proven to be a POS by comparison.
Personally in these last 10 years I've worn out no less than 3 various chinese units and working on a forth
Only compressor that has stood the test of time an Italian *NARDI Atlantic 100 dive compressor .. that at the time a 3+ grand unit.
* It is a TANK filler and way to fast for direct to PCP filling IMO ...
There is a whole lot of poop out there ... do your research !!!
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Shoe box will live indefinitely as long as the o rings are what is wearing which with proper grease ur good
U might be able to find parts for them otherwise it's altaros booster is only booster I can think of
U might be able to find parts for them otherwise it's altaros booster is only booster I can think of
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It's to bad the shoe box died I'd still have it for a back up"Like" .... a Shoebox and we'll say operating on a similar concept, of a 2nd & 3rd stage pump utilizing a shop compressor for the 1st stage 100-125 psi or so ... sadly no there is not best i know.
The slew of chinese compressors that had Tom close up Shoebox due to pricing and staying competitive have COME AND GONE !!! Can't think of a single one that was made 10 years ago or so outside Hung Yang / Tuxing that was not proven to be a POS by comparison.
Personally in these last 10 years I've worn out no less than 3 various chinese units and working on a forth
Only compressor that has stood the test of time an Italian *NARDI Atlantic 100 dive compressor .. that at the time a 3+ grand unit.
* It is a TANK filler and way to fast for direct to PCP filling IMO ...
There is a whole lot of poop out there ... do your research !!!
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Have 3 myself ... my original chain drive and two F10's ( They are stored and my ultimate "Tho slow" if needed back up units )
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As Scott said, no, there is nothing like it. I sometimes wish that somebody would replicate it out of China - then at least the costs would be low enough that it could compete against all the junk out there, and it would still be more robust as it was well designed from a load standpoint (along with everything else).
The dive compressors like the Alkin are great, but they are so over designed for what most of us need. They are made to run almost continuously from a duty standpoint for the dive industry, so ~200 hours in a month does occur with no issues - most of us would use them well under an hour a month for our typical air needs.
The Shoebox was (and fortunately for many us still is) an awesome machine for our needs. It offloaded the first stage to a common unit that many of us have anyways, allowed us to dry the air before it even entered the Box, and robustly provides plenty of air. I've had my Shoebox Max for a little over 10 years now, and I use it about 30-60 minutes per week, and just keeps going. I did upgrade it with the auto-lube kit, and now lube it with Krytox and the o-rings seem like they will last forever - I'm approaching 200 hours on the current o-rings with no signs of needing replacement.
A little over a year ago I was beginning to worry about what I would do if mine became irreparable, so when the opportunity presented itself I bought a very lightly used (less than 10 hours of run time) F10 to keep as a backup (plus I keep a healthy stash of parts, but we can't get everything anymore). Hopefully the Max won't die for a long time, but when it does I have one waiting in the wings - and I've already swapped the drive pulley in the F10 down to an F8 pulley to slow it down and reduce the load on the bearings and bushings. The increase in speed simply is not warranted in my book - the F8 speed really was the sweet spot for that compressor. I have the same pulley on my Max and it runs real well that way - a good bit faster than the original (about 30%) but still fairly calm. When I first tried the F10 it was almost scary fast, and I am more interested in long term reliability than absolute filling speed.
I too am a huge fan of the Shoebox compressor. Tom Kaye made a great unit, until it was chased from the market by the pursuit of faster fills at lower cost (and MUCH lower reliability). In the game of HPA, ideally we want reliable operation (long life / low maintenance), fast fills (big tank fills in well under an hour), and affordability (much lower cost than full dive compressors) in our air supply device - at best we can only get two of those three in any choice out there - and the Shoebox was really the only compressor to give us the first and third item in the list. Almost all of the current stuff from China seems to offer the second and third on the list - although I have to say the initial reports on the GX-CS4 look promising. IfI had to go with any of the new stuff, that just might be what I would choose.
The dive compressors like the Alkin are great, but they are so over designed for what most of us need. They are made to run almost continuously from a duty standpoint for the dive industry, so ~200 hours in a month does occur with no issues - most of us would use them well under an hour a month for our typical air needs.
The Shoebox was (and fortunately for many us still is) an awesome machine for our needs. It offloaded the first stage to a common unit that many of us have anyways, allowed us to dry the air before it even entered the Box, and robustly provides plenty of air. I've had my Shoebox Max for a little over 10 years now, and I use it about 30-60 minutes per week, and just keeps going. I did upgrade it with the auto-lube kit, and now lube it with Krytox and the o-rings seem like they will last forever - I'm approaching 200 hours on the current o-rings with no signs of needing replacement.
A little over a year ago I was beginning to worry about what I would do if mine became irreparable, so when the opportunity presented itself I bought a very lightly used (less than 10 hours of run time) F10 to keep as a backup (plus I keep a healthy stash of parts, but we can't get everything anymore). Hopefully the Max won't die for a long time, but when it does I have one waiting in the wings - and I've already swapped the drive pulley in the F10 down to an F8 pulley to slow it down and reduce the load on the bearings and bushings. The increase in speed simply is not warranted in my book - the F8 speed really was the sweet spot for that compressor. I have the same pulley on my Max and it runs real well that way - a good bit faster than the original (about 30%) but still fairly calm. When I first tried the F10 it was almost scary fast, and I am more interested in long term reliability than absolute filling speed.
I too am a huge fan of the Shoebox compressor. Tom Kaye made a great unit, until it was chased from the market by the pursuit of faster fills at lower cost (and MUCH lower reliability). In the game of HPA, ideally we want reliable operation (long life / low maintenance), fast fills (big tank fills in well under an hour), and affordability (much lower cost than full dive compressors) in our air supply device - at best we can only get two of those three in any choice out there - and the Shoebox was really the only compressor to give us the first and third item in the list. Almost all of the current stuff from China seems to offer the second and third on the list - although I have to say the initial reports on the GX-CS4 look promising. IfI had to go with any of the new stuff, that just might be what I would choose.
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I love my F10 but I will pass on some advice for folks to take some time to break it down for a rebuild even if you don’t have the time on it. I bought mine right before they stopped offering them and use it somewhat sporadically as my interests seem to shift between my PCP’s and powderburners with the seasons. I’ve had no issues until this weekend when I noticed gray/black crud on the HP connector after it stopped at about 4000 PSI and I disconnected the line to my SCBA bottle. I watched the video on the cylinder service so I removed the second stage cylinder without much fuss and found some corrosion. Then I opened Pandora’s box when I tried to remove the first stage cylinder; it was almost frozen in place. I say it was “almost” frozen because cooler heads did not prevail and I got it separated with brute force, which left me thinking the block and cylinder were probably ruined but after some remedial attention it appears it will seal up.
Anyways, I’m going to be running a low pressure air dryer between my compressor and the F10 after I get this all cleaned up and back together, but again I’d advise folks to remove the cylinders and check that everything is GTG from time to time, even if you don’t need to replace the o-rings. And if you do have to muscle the cylinder a bit, wear some gloves because those cooling fins will slice your fingers open…
Anyways, I’m going to be running a low pressure air dryer between my compressor and the F10 after I get this all cleaned up and back together, but again I’d advise folks to remove the cylinders and check that everything is GTG from time to time, even if you don’t need to replace the o-rings. And if you do have to muscle the cylinder a bit, wear some gloves because those cooling fins will slice your fingers open…
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As stated by others, I am a huge Box fan and have used mine for well over ten years. While I tried to get some parts before Tom closed the doors, I was a little late in doing so and didn't get any at all.
I have bought on used and recently been given an older chain-drive Box, in which I pulled the parts that I thought needed and gave the other parts to AGN'ers.
So, at least I have some stash and two Boxes that work.
I'm hopeful that I can keep them both running for a long time to come as they are super simple and reliable. A little slow means nothing it just takes minor planning.
It's like "The Little Train that Could".
Enjoy your Box if ya got one!
Mike
I have bought on used and recently been given an older chain-drive Box, in which I pulled the parts that I thought needed and gave the other parts to AGN'ers.
So, at least I have some stash and two Boxes that work.
I'm hopeful that I can keep them both running for a long time to come as they are super simple and reliable. A little slow means nothing it just takes minor planning.
It's like "The Little Train that Could".
Enjoy your Box if ya got one!
Mike
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The only concern I have with this advice is that the fittings on the high pressure air lines only have so many times they can be loosened and tightened before they will begin to leak - this is something Tom mentioned in his video on rebuilding the cylinders. I'm not sure I would want to make doing what you suggest a regular practice, but it might not be a bad idea to do it to a unit that rarely gets run - and maybe wipe down the cylinder and block with a little white lithium grease before reassembly . . .
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Agreed I’m not sure I’d do it as a regular thing but as noted, from time to time; just don’t assume all is well based on total run time/o-ring life. I was concerned as well about the longevity of the air lines but after having that frozen cylinder… I would have to think the air lines could be fixed/refabricated, and worst case I’d think OCOLabs could make new ones of the type required if need be.
Edit: I was thinking about this more after responding and I’m wondering if the air line leakage is a concern on the F10’s based on this info from the manual: “A new feature on the F10 is our own custom o-ring fittings on the air lines. They are made to be user serviceable buy replacing the o-rings if they start to leak. There is a permanent ferrule clamped on the air line.”
The video is showing the older version of the Shoebox which would not have had that enhancement, so this may not be a concern for F10 owners but is a good call out.
Edit part 2: based on Revoman’s response I went back and looked at the F8 manual, which has the same verbiage as the F10, so the custom o-ring fittings were not a new feature on the F10.
Edit: I was thinking about this more after responding and I’m wondering if the air line leakage is a concern on the F10’s based on this info from the manual: “A new feature on the F10 is our own custom o-ring fittings on the air lines. They are made to be user serviceable buy replacing the o-rings if they start to leak. There is a permanent ferrule clamped on the air line.”
The video is showing the older version of the Shoebox which would not have had that enhancement, so this may not be a concern for F10 owners but is a good call out.
Edit part 2: based on Revoman’s response I went back and looked at the F8 manual, which has the same verbiage as the F10, so the custom o-ring fittings were not a new feature on the F10.
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I sure would like to know where those ferruled fittings/ends were procured as I heeded Tom's words and only remove when needed on my F-8, even though they appear to have the ferrule/O-Ring ends on them.
Anyone?
Mike
Anyone?
Mike
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You’re right Mike, I looked up the F8 manual and it’s the same as the F10 with regards to the air lines: “A new feature on the F8 is our own custom o-ring fittings on the air lines. They are made to be user serviceable buy replacing the o-rings if they start to leak.”
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So I guess it is just me with my Max that is at risk for that . . . At least I have a spare set of fittings and an air pipe on hand - part of what I was able to load up on before the Shoebox store shut down. At least it's good to know that the ones on my as-yet barely used F10 should be serviceable for a long time!
At least I have a spare set of fittings and an air pipe on hand - part of what I was able to load up on before the Shoebox store shut down. At least it's good to know that the ones on my as-yet barely used F10 should be serviceable for a long time!Upvote 0
BrazosbyNemo --=--
Absolutely!
Tom already produces some parts that interchange with his 'new' CO2 Pump line for OCO Labs and the Shoebox. It sure wouldn't take much to make the true Box parts in amongst those parts since he obviously already has a custom product maker for the OCO parts.
1.) .25" and .125" Cylinders
2.) .25" Short and Long O-Ring Spacers for Piston/Cylinder (OCO already has the .125")
3.) Piston Support Stanchion (OCO uses these it appears)
4.) .125" Piston Support Stanchion Bronze/Brass Bushing (I believe that OCO has these?)
5.) Large, 72 Groove Belt Pulley (I can't find one of these in 'Plastic', Aluminum and Steel only)
6.) Large and Small Backcheck Valve (OCO uses these it appears)
7.) .25" Delrin Oiler Nut (.125" is available from OCO Labs and could be drilled-out to .25")
8.) Crank Arm Assembly (OCO uses these it appears)
9.) Crank Arm to Piston Clamping Block Connecting Rod (OCO uses these it appears)
10.) Piston Clamping Block (OCO uses these it appears, but doesn't have one for the .25" Piston)
11.) Main Air Block (OCO uses these it appears, but could be different than the Box needs?)
All of the other parts a pretty available except the Red Box and Aluminum Front Cover, which isn't likely to be needed.
Tom could make perhaps 50 of each and post them here on AGN Classifieds, selling no more than 2 per customer, giving more AGN'ers a chance to fill a need? Or....he could take a few orders for those custom parts and run them when running parts for OCO Labs, pre-paid?
There seems to be a enough interest for at least a few runs of needed parts. It couldn't hurt to ask, right?
Just a thought.
Mike
Absolutely!
Tom already produces some parts that interchange with his 'new' CO2 Pump line for OCO Labs and the Shoebox. It sure wouldn't take much to make the true Box parts in amongst those parts since he obviously already has a custom product maker for the OCO parts.
1.) .25" and .125" Cylinders
2.) .25" Short and Long O-Ring Spacers for Piston/Cylinder (OCO already has the .125")
3.) Piston Support Stanchion (OCO uses these it appears)
4.) .125" Piston Support Stanchion Bronze/Brass Bushing (I believe that OCO has these?)
5.) Large, 72 Groove Belt Pulley (I can't find one of these in 'Plastic', Aluminum and Steel only)
6.) Large and Small Backcheck Valve (OCO uses these it appears)
7.) .25" Delrin Oiler Nut (.125" is available from OCO Labs and could be drilled-out to .25")
8.) Crank Arm Assembly (OCO uses these it appears)
9.) Crank Arm to Piston Clamping Block Connecting Rod (OCO uses these it appears)
10.) Piston Clamping Block (OCO uses these it appears, but doesn't have one for the .25" Piston)
11.) Main Air Block (OCO uses these it appears, but could be different than the Box needs?)
All of the other parts a pretty available except the Red Box and Aluminum Front Cover, which isn't likely to be needed.
Tom could make perhaps 50 of each and post them here on AGN Classifieds, selling no more than 2 per customer, giving more AGN'ers a chance to fill a need? Or....he could take a few orders for those custom parts and run them when running parts for OCO Labs, pre-paid?
There seems to be a enough interest for at least a few runs of needed parts. It couldn't hurt to ask, right?
Just a thought.
Mike
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I think that is a great idea. I think the most practical way for Tom (and for Oco Labs) to do it would be to have a Shoebox parts section on their site, where we could order parts via special order. Either they could have a few on hand, or make them to order, or a mix of the two - whatever they think is best for them. For example, I'd think the .25" spacers would be low cost and high enough demand to keep on hand, but most of the rest might be special order - at least after a run on critically needed spares are fulfilled.
But I think the real question is knowing how many Shoebox owners are like us - diehards that never want to switch to anything else, if we can keep them going - vs. more like Motorhead and have moved on to something else, but keep theirs as a backup. That split really defines the market and business opportunity, if any . . .
But I think the real question is knowing how many Shoebox owners are like us - diehards that never want to switch to anything else, if we can keep them going - vs. more like Motorhead and have moved on to something else, but keep theirs as a backup. That split really defines the market and business opportunity, if any . . .
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Okay, I had reached out to Zack at OCO Labs last week and received this email from him this afternoon:
Hi Mike, I’ve reached out to Tom about shoebox parts. We might be able to start making the lower cylinder and other parts for that machine. I do have all parts available for the lower cylinder.
I have just emailed a reply to Zack in hopes that Tom will join or review the two threads currently on this Forum and hopefully get something moving on some parts that might be enabled to replace per the above Zack reply.
Zack!
I hope that your week has gone well so far.
Thank you for the ask, there is a couple of threads on the Airgun Nation Forum site regarding this very thing, parts not available for the folks that much prefer to keep the Shoebox boosters that they own and not buy another compressor or booster due to the simplicity of the Shoebox and how well it performs.
Apparently, on AGN member has already phoned Tom and spoken to him about doing a run of parts that are not available as they are specific to the Shoebox only and are custom parts, such as the cylinders.
I deeply appreciate any and all information or possible parts runs that you see fit to provide.
Not sure that Tom wants to join in the thread conversations (there are actually 2 of them), but here are links to review them:
Mike
Hi Mike, I’ve reached out to Tom about shoebox parts. We might be able to start making the lower cylinder and other parts for that machine. I do have all parts available for the lower cylinder.
I have just emailed a reply to Zack in hopes that Tom will join or review the two threads currently on this Forum and hopefully get something moving on some parts that might be enabled to replace per the above Zack reply.
Zack!
I hope that your week has gone well so far.
Thank you for the ask, there is a couple of threads on the Airgun Nation Forum site regarding this very thing, parts not available for the folks that much prefer to keep the Shoebox boosters that they own and not buy another compressor or booster due to the simplicity of the Shoebox and how well it performs.
Apparently, on AGN member has already phoned Tom and spoken to him about doing a run of parts that are not available as they are specific to the Shoebox only and are custom parts, such as the cylinders.
I deeply appreciate any and all information or possible parts runs that you see fit to provide.
Not sure that Tom wants to join in the thread conversations (there are actually 2 of them), but here are links to review them:
Mike
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