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Printed moderators? Experiences

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Well.....I can only speak from my own experience, trying to do business with a fellow member on here that was going down that path with new equipment. I tried three separate units, that supposedly were NEW AND IMPROVED versions. I guess he was half right....but the wrong half. Each one got progressively worse. The LOOKED awesome, were quiet, but I couldn't hit a 12x15 sheet of paper with any of them mounted up. With my old school moderators, I stacked pellet on pellet. Just my two cents worth. I really wanted those to work too. Just wasn't going to happen. The seller was an absolute gentleman about it, and was very professional.
 
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erock said:
Well.....I can only speak from my own experience, trying to do business with a fellow member on here that was going down that path with new equipment. I tried three separate units, that supposedly were NEW AND IMPROVED versions. I guess he was half right....but the wrong half. Each one got progressively worse. The LOOKED awesome, were quiet, but I couldn't hit a 12x15 sheet of paper with any of them mounted up. With my old school moderators, I stacked pellet on pellet. Just my two cents worth. I really wanted those to work too. Just wasn't going to happen. The seller was an absolute gentleman about it, and was very professional.
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That's odd.

Do you know what kind of baffles he was using?

I've had the occasional design which just would not shoot but usually it isn't the design so much as it is stringy plastic. That can be remedied with a torch in about half a second or by spinning the moderator on a chain saw file for a minute to wear them off.
 
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I'm uncertain about the printed moderators. Bought 2 when the printed moderators first started to show up. First one lasted 1 week, on a 22 cal. 28 ft lb pcp gun. Blew the endcap & half the baffle system 20 yds into the yard. Glad all the pieces went forward. Still have the second one, but have added small screws to hold the endcaps from blowing out & wrapped it with carbon fiber tape.. Recently have put it on my 25 cal Phophet. have only fired a few shots so far. time will tell. Waiting to see comments on the current printed moderators just like you. Sidenote, all my aluminum moderators are still going strong with no problems. Maybe, that's the answer you want.
 
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How long is a piece of string?

Printed moderators are as strong as they are designed, multiplied by as strong as they are printed. Are they strong enough? Yes, if they are designed for your application, and made by someone who knows how to print; using quality material.

They fact that you had one "blow up" at some time is not very meaningful. If it was not designed for the power level, or more precisely muzzle pressure (and volume of air) your PCP releases per shot, then it is likely to fail.

If it is designed stronger than than required for your application, then it will also be heavier.

I have designed hundreds of 3D printed moderators. Most of them are custom designs, rather than generic. My advice is to design them as insert to be glued into carbon fiber or aluminum tubes; especially for higher power applications. But I have many designs that are light, used as printed, and are lasting. A case in point is my series of designs for the Huben pistol. I have some light weight versions, and some stronger ones for max power.

If designed fail safe, plastic bits fly forwards, rather than at the shooter, should you exceed the capability of the materials.

Other than strength, material creep of printed plastic is poor, compared to carbon fiber or aluminum. This means that the material can move over time, under gravity, or when bent in a shipping case. PLA is particularly prone to creep; especially at temperatures over 50 degrees C.

One way to address creep is to print with carbon fiber filled filament; or just reinforce with a stiff external metal of CF tube; as suggested above. The other is to increase projectile to baffle bore clearance, so as to avoid the possibility of future contact; should there be significant distortion.

If a light printed plastic moderator lets go, or clips; print another. Or a heavier one.
 
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My experience has been that the 3D printed mods, or ones that use 3D printed internals, can be more fragile than their mostly aluminum counterparts. The 3D printed parts, joints, and glue bonds can be quite brittle and if they got knocked a bit can come loose. Perhaps it's even the result of hundreds of shot cycles, I don't know. The two mods I've owned that relied on 3D printing in some way or another both ended up having construction issues.

I have no doubt that people can make some awesome and rugged 3D printed mods, but I haven't experienced those. Since then I have tended to stick with aluminum housings and cores. Just sharing my experience, others certainly may differ.
 
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It is "power density" that matters. Meaning, if you have a larger enough moderator, it can be made from weaker materials. A short barrel and higher power requires stronger materials, or more weaker materials. As does a smaller moderator at high power.

More specifically, the first expansion chamber works the hardest. Make that strong enough, while making each chamber after that a little lighter, if you want to save weight.

Think standard power. More than that may be high power. Certainly, double standard qualifies as "high power". What is "standard power" for a PCP? Something like this:
.177 : 20 FPE
.22 : 30 FPE
.25 : 40 FPE
 
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ChickenDumpling said:
What is considered high power where alloy is preferred over printed moderators? So in my case, I now own an RTI Prophet 2.1 and plan on running heavier slugs and pellets at some point.
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The bang for buck in printed moderators is "probably" around 100 - 200 fpe. I'm not really sure. It could be double that. I have never tried to build something that would handle that much power but I am fairly sure that I could if I so desired. At some point the additional strength of metals could be leveraged to get a better performance to weight ratio and that would be the time to make that engineering decision.

One of the "Agencies" people linked me a video of someone who built a resin printed moderator they were running on a rimfire so... It used transparent blue resin so it looked pretty cool when it was in use. I don't spend a whole lot of time thinking about that side of Mach One.
 
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OldSpook said:
That's odd.

Do you know what kind of baffles he was using?

I've had the occasional design which just would not shoot but usually it isn't the design so much as it is stringy plastic. That can be remedied with a torch in about half a second or by spinning the moderator on a chain saw file for a minute to wear them off.
Click to expand...

No idea as to the internals. It was a sealed unit. I shot maybe 10 shots through each, and it was WAY worse than shotgun pattern. He did try his best to do right by me, but no luck on this....
 
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Here is a reply to a happy printed moderator customer, that might be pertinent to this thread. It show what a robust printed moderator looks like inside:

N/A - The semi-sisters

I have a V1 with almost 10000 rounds through it and no issues. I believe that a V3 is better if you are a leftie. Regarding mods, it does have quite the bark suppressed and some work much better to quiet it down. I found that an impulse air IA1200 worked best, among commercial offerings, but...
www.airgunnation.com www.airgunnation.com
 
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ChickenDumpling said:
Is the printed moderators/silencers worth venturing into compared to aluminum/carbon fiber ones with alloys? Is it the pay once cry once sort of scenario? There are definitely some great printers and resins out there, but its a niche that I'm not familiar with.
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I have a few of Subscribers GK1 moderators. I have a .25 caliber V1. Shooting 24-46 grain pellets/slugs
I was looking for a moderator that I could use the iron sights, so the design had to be offset. I also informed him that I only shoot at the higher power levels (70-80fpe) while my preference is an aluminum or carbon fiber tube, I settled on a 3d printed design, the ones I have are very effective at controlling the powder burner report. I have yet to blow one up. None of mine have clipping issues. I will say though I have never dropped mine or bumped it hard. Price wise for me I’d definitely consider it to be affordable.

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I am new to printing and using these mods, although I have used two STO Leshiy inserts that were obviously printed and worked very well. I also purchased a couple of Spookys from @OldSpook and they turned out to be great. That pushed me to buy my own printer. I was also interested in making shrouds, bushing, pellet holders and speedloaders, which is turning out to be fun and useful. The first print on my new Prusa was a @subscriber shorty for the Huben pistol. Remarkable performance for such a small size, adding only 2in to its length. I then had to try his longer “oval” mod and the result is remarkable both in absence of sound and great accuracy. Now we have a collaborative mission to silence a .30 Sidewinder mini, which has an ear-stinging bark.

Now, I get that these things are not very pretty and I wouldn’t put one on my wood stocked Prod or my Leshiy 2. But, many of them can be printed such that they can be encased in CF tube. Frankly that’s what you’re getting from many commercial vendors with a 10X markup. Another big advantage is that many designs and sizes can be tested. Even a large one uses only $4 of filament. I’ve bought several mods for $100+ based on a recommendation only to find that either my ears or my tune must be radically different. I have six in a drawer that are collecting dust, waiting for the airgun dating agency to identify their soul mates. Easily more than the cost of a printer. Even without one, many public libraries have printers you can use at very low price. If you get any awkward questions, it’s a doo-dad for your sprinkler system.
 
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