prismatic scope for HFT

[Bullpupone]

Gentlemen and Ladies,
Larcat, suggested that I ask the FT subforum my question instead of the Optics subforum where I initially asked regarding the use of a prismatic scope for HFT. I am trying to figure out which one of higher power Immersive Optics scopes would possibly work best for American style HFT.

The clarity, general lightness in a fixed power scope and with a very reasonable price interests me in a prismatic scope. I emailed Immersive Optics in GB to discuss this with them in hope of getting a simple answer. They confirmed for me that a Shallow Depth of Field was both a function of Magnification and also Objective size, so therefore the14x50 would have the most shallow DoF in there line. Ultimately I believe that we were talking at cross purposes, it appears that when I asked for advice in shooting HFT, they were discussing European style FT shooting and were emphatic about my not being able to touch the scope at all during competition. So to them having a Deep Depth of Field, where most of the targets would remain in focus off of a single focus point was ideal, which I understand. I could not get across to them the idea of me wanting to touch the focus/parallax wheel for the express purpose of range finding.

So if anyone who has experience or insight with one or more of these three scopes (10×24, 10x40 or 14x50) as to which one would be most practical to use for HFT here in the States. I would be greatly appreciate any and all assistance with this. Sorry to impose but I don't have nearly the budget to purchase all of them to figure this out (and the Amazon option of buying and returning each of them in turn is not available at the present time).

Where I live in S.E. Pennsylvania there are a three clubs within 90 minutes of my home. It is a good place for me to explore HFT, and the sport has peaked my interest.

Respectfully
BP-1

 

[airgunner1042]

Buy an Element Helix or Hawke Sidewinder 8/24/50 in SFP. I own both and use them exclusively for FT. both retail for $400.00. With the FFP the reticle gets smaller as you go down in power. SFP does not. It remains the same thru the entire power range.Best thing is to ask questions from other experienced FT shooters in your area.

 

[dgeesaman]

How close are you to Palmyra? A group gets together there pretty regularly these days.

 

[shootermeb]

I have been using a UTG SWAT 4-16x accushot. It's affordable and does the job. It also has an illuminated reticle, in case you'd need it. You can adjust parallax in US HFT, so you don't have the same concerns as the non-US version of HFT.

I think you will want something that is either a max of 16x, or at least has markings for 16x power. If your scope can adjust to above 16x, you will need to set it to a power at or lower than 16x as marked on the scope. You also want a reticle that is mil-dot, or has some kind of hash mark system to shoot holdover/under.

 

[Bullpupone]

airgunner1044 and shootermeb
I apreciate your suggestions. but they completly miss the point. I already have several conventional scopes that would work well for HFT. Both cheaper and more expensive than the Immersive Optics scopes that range from 4-14 up to 6-24. My interest is in the potential benefits that a prismatic brings to the table, sharp clear images, a Field of View that is 4x what a conventional scope has in a smaller. lighter package. Thanks again.

 

[Pale_Rider]

Had no idea they made prism scopes with more than 5x magnification. I’ve been using a 3x prism scope for short range pest control and have been loving it for the sharp image and wider field of view compared to a conventional scope. The potential benefits you mentioned are all true, you should buy one.

 

[Bullpupone]

Had no idea they made prism scopes with more than 5x magnification. I’ve been using a 3x prism scope for short range pest control and have been loving it for the sharp image and wider field of view compared to a conventional scope. The potential benefits you mentioned are all true, you should buy one.

Legionair,
they also make a 5x24 & 5x30, both with more forgiving Eye Relief than the 10x or 14x but with
a Field of View that is only twice normal. Purchasing one is my intent, trying to figure out which one will maximize the benefits for me is my dilemma.

 

[Pale_Rider]

A short eye relief for me isn’t a problem unless I’m shooting a springer or PB.
I’d go with the 14 over the 10. They both have the same eye relief, better off going with higher magnification since I already have a 3x prism.

What magnification do you mostly use for HFT?

 

[Bullpupone]

up to 16x

 

[thane]

My favorite scope for daytime pesting, field walking is the Immersive 14x50. Excellent target acquisition, extremely wide field of view like sprain your eyeball wide.
Dabbled a bit with using in hunter field target, ranging is very difficult from 45-55 yds.
Also the scope eye relief is so tight that you cannot fit a conventional focus wheel, it will hit your face... unless you are a lefty.
The clarity is exceptional, illumination decent, single mil dot hashes are wide for hunter class.

I wanted to lift it to 4"+ over bore to reduce ranging errors at 45-55, and use a half wheel, dished to pass objective, with indicator on side of objective (away from eye). Weird, but may help.

 

[Bullpupone]

My favorite scope for daytime pesting, field walking is the Immersive 14x50. Excellent target acquisition, extremely wide field of view like sprain your eyeball wide.
Dabbled a bit with using in hunter field target, ranging is very difficult from 45-55 yds.
Also the scope eye relief is so tight that you cannot fit a conventional focus wheel, it will hit your face... unless you are a lefty.
The clarity is exceptional, illumination decent, single mil dot hashes are wide for hunter class.

I wanted to lift it to 4"+ over bore to reduce ranging errors at 45-55, and use a half wheel, dished to pass objective, with indicator on side of objective (away from eye). Weird, but may help.

Thane, yes that greatly helps it is the type of information that I need. From.everything that I have read ranging is often difficult from 45-55 yds no matter the scope you use.

Do you think a smaller wheel might work, one of the British dealers sells a 8.5cm wheel for it? Better yet would you mind sending me a link to where you found your half wheel?
Thanks,
BP-1

 

[thane]

Currently working up a half wheel, I will post up when finished.

I don't know that an 8.5 cm wheel would work, individual nose projection would need to be factored in...

 

[BC]

Gentlemen and Ladies,
Larcat, suggested that I ask the FT subforum my question instead of the Optics subforum where I initially asked regarding the use of a prismatic scope for HFT. I am trying to figure out which one of higher power Immersive Optics scopes would possibly work best for American style HFT.

The clarity, general lightness in a fixed power scope and with a very reasonable price interests me in a prismatic scope. I emailed Immersive Optics in GB to discuss this with them in hope of getting a simple answer. They confirmed for me that a Shallow Depth of Field was both a function of Magnification and also Objective size, so therefore the14x50 would have the most shallow DoF in there line. Ultimately I believe that we were talking at cross purposes, it appears that when I asked for advice in shooting HFT, they were discussing European style FT shooting and were emphatic about my not being able to touch the scope at all during competition. So to them having a Deep Depth of Field, where most of the targets would remain in focus off of a single focus point was ideal, which I understand. I could not get across to them the idea of me wanting to touch the focus/parallax wheel for the express purpose of range finding.

So if anyone who has experience or insight with one or more of these three scopes (10×24, 10x40 or 14x50) as to which one would be most practical to use for HFT here in the States. I would be greatly appreciate any and all assistance with this. Sorry to impose but I don't have nearly the budget to purchase all of them to figure this out (and the Amazon option of buying and returning each of them in turn is not available at the present time).

Where I live in S.E. Pennsylvania there are a three clubs within 90 minutes of my home. It is a good place for me to explore HFT, and the sport has peaked my interest.

Respectfully
BP-1

Hey Bullpup, since noone really answered your original question. I can tell you that if you plan on shooting USA HFT, where you need to use the parallax wheel to determine target distance (which HFT guys do), then a prismatic scope is not going to be for you. Youre better off like the above guys say, going with a 6-24 whatever with a big side wheel. True the UK HFT guys could use this, as they shoot their events with the parallax set to about 30 yards, so they can have most of their targets in focus, and use blur to determine shorter or longer distances. I have shot a UK HFT world event recently in England, along with 300 other competitors, just to see how the boys and girls do it in the UK. Wow was I impressed by their skills. I was using a 3-12x32 scope after practicing a little bit with it, and thought I would do OK. (ended up in the middle of the pack as I figured I would) Theryre mostly using Optisan CP 10's, with MD reticles. They know their scopes and all their aim points and know the tricks to figure out the long and short distances. So, for USA HFT, I can not see how a prismatic scope would work for anyone, unless youre outstanding at using your mark 1 eyeball and guessing distances within a couple yards all the way out to 55 yards. I am thinking of buying a prismatic scope to mess with, (as I have a couple steyrs set up for UK HFT), but since were not the UK, its just money down the drain. Best of luck......BC

 

[SDstephan]

I am having a wheel made for my 14x50.
The distance/numbers on the back side So the wheel won’t pass through my face. I’ll post pictures and results when possible.

 

[MysticalDragon]

Thane, yes that greatly helps it is the type of information that I need. From.everything that I have read ranging is often difficult from 45-55 yds no matter the scope you use.

Do you think a smaller wheel might work, one of the British dealers sells a 8.5cm wheel for it? Better yet would you mind sending me a link to where you found your half wheel?
Thanks,
BP-1

Hey Bullpup, since noone really answered your original question. I can tell you that if you plan on shooting USA HFT, where you need to use the parallax wheel to determine target distance (which HFT guys do), then a prismatic scope is not going to be for you. Youre better off like the above guys say, going with a 6-24 whatever with a big side wheel. True the UK HFT guys could use this, as they shoot their events with the parallax set to about 30 yards, so they can have most of their targets in focus, and use blur to determine shorter or longer distances. I have shot a UK HFT world event recently in England, along with 300 other competitors, just to see how the boys and girls do it in the UK. Wow was I impressed by their skills. I was using a 3-12x32 scope after practicing a little bit with it, and thought I would do OK. (ended up in the middle of the pack as I figured I would) Theryre mostly using Optisan CP 10's, with MD reticles. They know their scopes and all their aim points and know the tricks to figure out the long and short distances. So, for USA HFT, I can not see how a prismatic scope would work for anyone, unless youre outstanding at using your mark 1 eyeball and guessing distances within a couple yards all the way out to 55 yards. I am thinking of buying a prismatic scope to mess with, (as I have a couple steyrs set up for UK HFT), but since were not the UK, its just money down the drain. Best of luck......BC

BC is spot on with this advice. world hunter division is different than Aafta rules.

Theres a reason that open division ranges at as high of power that they can. It allows them to get more accurate ranging. You are putting yourself at a disadvantage out of the gate if you are using less than 16x in hunter division.

Also there is a reason for the larger wheels, the eccentric, half moon, or nautilus wheels. They allow more space between your ranging marks especially at the close or far rangers where it matters. This helps with ranging. Using a small wheel, like the 4 inch ones that come with the hawke sidewinder, will put you at a disadvantage from the start.

 

[SDstephan]

BC is spot on with this advice. world hunter division is different than Aafta rules.

Theres a reason that open division ranges at as high of power that they can. It allows them to get more accurate ranging. You are putting yourself at a disadvantage out of the gate if you are using less than 16x in hunter division.

Also there is a reason for the larger wheels, the eccentric, half moon, or nautilus wheels. They allow more space between your ranging marks especially at the close or far rangers where it matters. This helps with ranging. Using a small wheel, like the 4 inch ones that come with the hawke sidewinder, will put you at a disadvantage from the start.

Yes.
But have you seen the sight picture?
Also, after shooting in the wind yesterday, a wider field of view might have given me a clue about wind strength and direction.
BTW - my Delta Stryker is set at 15 power - so I am already giving that 1 power away. What's one more?

I cannot find a fixed 16 power scope, the I/O was the nearest I found. I did not say it was the end all, but worth a try. If it doesn't work on my HFT gun, I am sure I'll find another home for it. Besides, now that Element has slapped their name on these scopes the reviews coming in from their spokespeople are great.

At the end of the day this is probably a better hunting that FT scope.
as always YMMV

 

[MysticalDragon]

Yes.
But have you seen the sight picture?
Also, after shooting in the wind yesterday, a wider field of view might have given me a clue about wind strength and direction.
BTW - my Delta Stryker is set at 15 power - so I am already giving that 1 power away. What's one more?

I cannot find a fixed 16 power scope, the I/O was the nearest I found. I did not say it was the end all, but worth a try. If it doesn't work on my HFT gun, I am sure I'll find another home for it. Besides, now that Element has slapped their name on these scopes the reviews coming in from their spokespeople are great.

At the end of the day this is probably a better hunting that FT scope.
as always YMMV

You do you. If you don't want to listen to whats passed on by experienced ft shooters thats on you.

I had many questions when I got going. I not only wanted the answers but the why. I spent 2 hours on the phone yesterday with a guy who could have taken first in nationals 2 weeks ago if it wasnt for a ranging mistake on day one. I also had an extensive discussion with 2 other top tier shooters. Not to mention shooting with Tyler Patner and getting insight from him. I'm simply sharing what was shared with me and why. I trust their experience as their results show it to be true and accurate.

When I got a hawke sidewinder, I thought great the included wheel will save me $200 in getting an aftermarket wheel. Could I use it? sure. But why be limited by a poor choice in equipment? It just doesnt make sense to me, especially with the time it takes to setup a wheel.

Now if your rifle is dual duty and you are wanting to use your hunting rifle for hunter division and to use hunter division events to practice with said rifle to use when hunting, then I could see it making a little more sense. However you are making it more difficult on yourself than it needs to be.

 

[Str8tshooter]

I really like my Element 14x50, so much so I tried to purchase another one and the only place I found them available is HUMA. Midway lists them as Discontinued by Manufacturer? Which seems funny as they were just released, Top Gun Airguns where I was able to buy mine, does not know when more will come in? Element does not have a phone number that I could find, and they have not bothered to respond to my email and it's been over a week! Can't help but wonder the future of Element after the FX Fiasco?

I also think ranging would be challenging, but love the Reticle!

Edit: Element got back to me.

 

[SDstephan]

I really like my Element 14x50, so much so I tried to purchase another one and the only place I found them available is HUMA. Midway lists them as Discontinued by Manufacturer? Which seems funny as they were just released, Top Gun Airguns where I was able to buy mine, does not know when more will come in? Element does not have a phone number that I could find, and they have not bothered to respond to my email and it's been over a week! Can't help but wonder the future of Element after the FX Fiasco?

I also think ranging would be challenging, but love the Reticle!

From what I understand, after having lent the scope to an exacting friend, the scope ranges/snaps into focus quite well.
Perhaps instead of marking distances, the hold overs are all that would be needed on the scope wheel.
Interesting experiment

 

[Str8tshooter]

I look forward to seeing your wheel.