Projectiles, purpose? Necessity?

[rangur1]

This came off another post I read dealing with terminal effects on game from different caliber at modest power levels. As with many of these threads, is super easy to trail off on specific instances of power and caliber applications. One member I respect, L.leon is a huge proponent of modest power, mostly 22 cal and its evident effectiveness at dispatching critters at good range. I tend to favor bigger caliber with higher power especially with durable critters like raccoons. I feel more confident with the extra margin of error it affords me to ensure ethical kills. Now, is a 30 cal slug gun necessary for squirrel or bird? No, of course not. Plus the danger of pass through or miss must be appreciated. Would I shoot a raccoon at 80 yards with a 177 or 22 cal pellet at sub 12 or even sub 20 FPE? I’m sure a vitals hit would succeed, but I’m sure not comfortable trying that. I guess the debate is what is really needed for a task, with exceptions always occurring. Or using overkill and risking collateral damage. This is the balance we all seek.
For the post to be the most beneficial, responses should try to stay objective. We all have had “exceptions “ but they’re really not the norm. It’s too easy for the thread to trail off into the weeds.

 

[PumaCarl]

First, there is no such thing as over-kill, dead is dead. If you are using way more power than what is just needed, like let's say a 22-250 shooting Varmint Grenades, than you better be certain of what's beyond your target. That's it. It doesn't matter what you are shooting, air, firearm, bow. You must know what's going to happen once that projectile fires and where it is going to end up. If you have no idea, you don't shoot. Risking collateral damage shouldn't be part of anybody's plan, with anything you are shooting. The problem with these threads are that half of the people think airguns are different and you don't have to worry about it. Wrong. It only takes 2fpe to penetrate an eyeball. That means to me, that I don't shoot up at starlings with an 18fpe .177 unless I have about 600y to the closest building or road.

As far as power itself goes, don't race to the bottom, use plenty, safely. Don't cheap out on killing something, you don't want it suffering or running off. If crack shots can do it with less, good for them, but you are the guy pulling the trigger in your yard, use what you're comfortable with. That is what is needed for the task at hand.

 

[ndwind]

I read an article in one of my gun or hunting magazines years ago. It was about powder burners but the affects would be simialr wtih air guns. I cant remember what magazine or auther to give credit. It could probably be googled.
They did a study on why sometimes an animal would on being hit with a bullet would drop like a stone and the next one hit in the same spot same rifle load etc would react completely different running jumping or whatever. The basic idea they discovered was that if the animals heart was in the pumping stage verses relaxed made the difference. So if the blood system was under pressure the effects to the animal instantanious. If the heart was relaxed it was still a killing shot just took a bit for the affects to be realized.

 

[Struckat]

I feel there are no hard and fast rule. We all use what we like based on our experience.
so of my guns, two @5 and 6 fpe, chippers and hosps. Two @ 8-9, tree rats only if something else is not readily available.
In the 14-18 fpe range I have three that I would use on a woodchuck if more power was not on hand.

Two from 27 to 35 fpe, well those are bear guns. Kidding….

 

[JungleShooter]

First, there is no such thing as over-kill, dead is dead.

Well said, I agree!

---

"You will shoot your eye out!"

It only takes 2 FPE to penetrate an eyeball.
That means to me, that I don't shoot up at starlings with an 18fpe .177cal unless I have about 600y to the closest building or road.

2FPE to penetrate an eyeball. Yupp, I have read scientific tests that state a number in this vecinity.
It's so extremely unlikely to even hit a head, much less an eyeball.
But let's run with it:



Maximum Range
Taking your 18FPE in .177cal, using a 10.30gr JSB dome, with 0.025BC — hurtling toward its target at 890fps at the muzzle:

Here is the graph showing how far it will fly (maximum range)— and at which barrel angles these ranges will occur:

Impact Energy
Let's see how much energy the pellet has left when it impacts back on earth.
The next graph shows the impact energy on the ground for the different barrel angles.

➠ What becomes clear is that for most angles the impact energy is far far below 2FPE, more like 0.2FPE — rain drop power.

Note however that this changes when the projectile has a higher BC. Going beyond a BC of 0.040 or 0.050 will increase impact energy significantly, and as BC increases, eventually impact energy will rise to 2FPE, and even beyond. Angled shots with slugs is a whole different game, not everybody lives in uninhabited grasslands like the boys from the South African farms....

Impact Velocity
The next graph shows the impact velocities at different angles.
This is a bit more detailed than the previous graph.
Here are therefore a few power—velocity pairs for the 10.30gr dome (.177cal):
100fps = 0.2FPE
209fps = 1.0FPE
256fps = 1.5FPE
296fps = 2.0FPE

➠ This chart shows that to get at least 2FPE of impact energy, the gun's angle must be about 3⁰ or less — any steeper and the impact energy will be less.

Good for you. Good for your neighbors. Bad for starlings, squirrels, and pigeons.

---

FYI:
The ballistic app, GPC Ballistics I used for this has been extremely helpful to me, as only the new defunct Hawke ChairGun Pro did this particular calculation.
Here is the link for the download info (for Android, Windows, and Linux):

GPC Ballistics Applications for Windows, MacOS and Linux

A few ballistics applications for Windows, macOS and Linux written in the PureBasic programming language.

gpc.fotosoft.co.uk

Cheers,

Matthias

 

[BlackICE]

Good to know that it is "pretty safe" to shoot up into the trees if the angle is >10 degrees with a .177.

Still getting hit on top of the head or in the eye with a 10g pellet dropping from the sky at 100 fps or 68 mph doesn't seem like it wouldn't still cause some concern. I don't think anyone would want to volunteer to be a guinea pig. If it hit someone's expensive collector car I don't think the wax or ceramic sealant will leave the finish unmolested.

 

[PumaCarl]

Matthias, nice work! I actually appreciate the effort you put into graphing everything. I generalize a lot, because I don't want to do all the math and show my work. I just check Strelok quickly and err on the side of caution but it's great to see the actual numbers every now and then.

 

[Long_Shot]

I guess the debate is what is really needed for a task, with exceptions always occurring. Or using overkill and risking collateral damage. This is the balance we all seek.
For the post to be the most beneficial, responses should try to stay objective. We all have had “exceptions “ but they’re really not the norm. It’s too easy for the thread to trail off into the weeds.

Looks like your thread is becoming a safety meeting. Common sense, know whats behind your target.
I thought overkill is making a Starling explode into pieces, from a moderately powered .22 or .25 cal. slug.

Projectiles, purpose? Necessity?​

I don't shoot pellets anymore, so I won't make any reference to them.
Projectile type makes the difference. No matter the cal. or game, the proper projectile is the key "necessity" for a given "purpose".
Large caliber for big game ( Hog, Deer, Bear ) require a more controlled expansion and deeper penetration from the projectile.

Small game/pests ( Rabbit, Squirrel, Pigeon, Starling ) need energy dump fast, not penetration.
Most typical .22 or .25 cal. HP slugs shot at 50 Ft-lbs. or more will have too much penetration. Verified by testing them.
Yet a small .22 cal. 22gr. @ 780 FPS 30 Ft-lbs. can be very effective because of slug type. Even at 100 yards.
I'm not saying that a HP slug won't dispatch a pest. Just that the right type slug can work better for the purpose.

Here's a few old photos that show what can be accomplished with a purpose made slug.....

These HP slugs didn't dump much of the available energy. Still going over 500 FPS.

2" gel. is actually slightly denser than the small pests we typically shoot.

Starling cadaver shot with a slow 750 FPS .25 cal. 38gr. fragmenting slug.