question about carbon fiber tanks

[blackdog899]

Exactly how I feel! And trust and believe I am
Aware of your generosity. The price you gave me on that chronny was more of a gift than a sale. If only some of these manufacturers had a heart like yours haha. And don’t get me wrong I get that they are in business to make profit . But yes as you said at one point it just becomes downright offensive with some of the crap they pull. I am actually looking to get into CNC machining really soon. If things work out one day I’d like to start my own company. Hope to change the game so more can fall in love with this sport as I have.

I come from firearms and before I thought airguns were a joke. Now that I’ve delved deeper into this I can 100% say I have more respect for airguns. Airguns are like the underdog. And it’s coming to a point now where they are almost able to go head to head with the pb market which blows my mind!!

I’m right with you, I m enjoying the sh t out of all the Airgun hobby.
but I have to ask specifically in what ways are Airguns “coming to the point now where they are almost able to go head to head with the pb market”
As to market do you mean sales? or do you mean the guns themselves performance wise ?

 

[Gerry52]

Exactly how I feel! And trust and believe I am
Aware of your generosity. The price you gave me on that chronny was more of a gift than a sale. If only some of these manufacturers had a heart like yours haha. And don’t get me wrong I get that they are in business to make profit . But yes as you said at one point it just becomes downright offensive with some of the crap they pull. I am actually looking to get into CNC machining really soon. If things work out one day I’d like to start my own company. Hope to change the game so more can fall in love with this sport as I have.

I come from firearms and before I thought airguns were a joke. Now that I’ve delved deeper into this I can 100% say I have more respect for airguns. Airguns are like the underdog. And it’s coming to a point now where they are almost able to go head to head with the pb market which blows my mind!!

Sent you a PM.

 

[30clipslinger]

I’m right with you, I m enjoying the sh t out of all the Airgun hobby.
but I have to ask specifically in what ways are Airguns “coming to the point now where they are almost able to go head to head with the pb market”
As to market do you mean sales? or do you mean the guns themselves performance wise ?

Honestly I just meant power wise. Wouldn’t really say performance since you have to fill up a Zeus every 3 shots. Where as if you got a 308 and a bag full of ammo you are set for a while. It is astonishing to me though that an airgun can put out more power than an AK47. I never would have thought this ever. And I bet you most pb guys have no idea about this either haha.

 

[blackdog899]

Honestly I just meant power wise. Wouldn’t really say performance since you have to fill up a Zeus every 3 shots. Where as if you got a 308 and a bag full of ammo you are set for a while. It is astonishing to me though that an airgun can put out more power than an AK47. I never would have thought this ever. And I bet you most pb guys have no idea about this either haha.

I’ll have to look that one up, I know the Ak 30 cal is a lower velocity but it’s still in the 2000s fps isn’t it?

 

[30clipslinger]

I’ll have to look that one up, I know the Ak 30 cal is a lower velocity but it’s still in the 2000s fps isn’t it?

Yes they put out that kind of velocity. But the new aea zeus mk2 they are coming out with is a 95 cal airgun with tanks that can hold 1400cc of air. They have a 2500 grain slug.(yes 2,500 not a typo lol) the Zeus pushes that 2500 grain slug over 800fps which comes in at over 3500 ft/lbs. these are the stats they claimed at shot show. Apparently it puts out more fpe but we’ll just have to see. So with those stats it does put out more energy than an AK. Not saying I really agree with the build and power but it is truly mind boggling to see that an airgun can push that kind of energy lol

 

[blackdog899]

Yes they put out that kind of velocity. But the new aea zeus mk2 they are coming out with is a 95 cal airgun with tanks that can hold 1400cc of air. They have a 2500 grain slug.(yes 2,500 not a typo lol) the Zeus pushes that 2500 grain slug over 800fps which comes in at over 3500 ft/lbs. these are the stats they claimed at shot show. Apparently it puts out more fpe but we’ll just have to see. So with those stats it does put out more energy than an AK. Not saying I really agree with the build and power but it is truly mind boggling to see that an airgun can push that kind of energy lol

thanks , I researched also.
to me not practical in any way, a gimmick.
if somebody uses it to hunt it’s for a u tube video.
but then again so did Fred Bear in a manner of speaking.
Fred helped the archery and bow hunting world explode.

 

[30clipslinger]

thanks , I researched also.
to me not practical in any way, a gimmick.
if somebody uses it to hunt it’s for a u tube video.
but then again so did Fred Bear in a manner of speaking.
Fred helped the archery and bow hunting world explode.

Absolutely a gimmick. Totally agree with you. It will probably do the airgun community more harm than good. Instead of putting out new models every few months they should refine their products so that they don’t have so many gosh darn problems. If they had the reliability I think aea would have taken over the industry

 

[ba49]

I think the airgun industry is going to put itself out of business if it isn't careful. Do we really need guns with that kind of power? These airgun forums and also You Tube are out there for the public to see and also certain 3 letter agencys. When we start bragging that airguns are more powerful than some assault weapons then public has something to relate that to and not in a positive way.
The same with the fascination with increasing the psi beyond 4500psi. What do you think is going to happen when someone screws up and gets killed. Do we really need 7000psi? Do you want to end up like Europe or Canada? When you are playing with the kinds of pressures some air gunners are we need the best equipment available. In this country If a DOT tank fails the liability falls on the tester or manufacturer. If a non DOT tank fails it's on you and affects the whole airgun community. Funny how some people will condemn me for buying quality equipment but they spend the extra money for a quality airgun.

 

[blackdog899]

I think the airgun industry is going to put itself out of business if it isn't careful. Do we really need guns with that kind of power? These airgun forums and also You Tube are out there for the public to see and also certain 3 letter agencys. When we start bragging that airguns are more powerful than some assault weapons then public has something to relate that to and not in a positive way.
The same with the fascination with increasing the psi beyond 4500psi. What do you think is going to happen when someone screws up and gets killed. Do we really need 7000psi? Do you want to end up like Europe or Canada? When you are playing with the kinds of pressures some air gunners are we need the best equipment available. In this country If a DOT tank fails the liability falls on the tester or manufacturer. If a non DOT tank fails it's on you and affects the whole airgun community. Funny how some people will condemn me for buying quality equipment but they spend the extra money for a quality airgun.

So you advocate hiding. Be tough to have this forum in secrecy.
Yeah if someone wants it develop 7k psi, go for it. someone has gotten killed in EVERY sport I have been involved in.
Now I’m going to get mean . Go hide under your pillow !

 

[ba49]

Did I say to hide? I said we need be smart and careful what we post, sorry I assumed you understand that concept. The ebike people did the same thing. Showing a bunch of guys on videos bragging about how fast the new ebikes are and videos showing the blowing stop signs and telling everyone how to get around the speed limiters. Now cities all over the country are banning them or changing the laws. So I'm done preaching.

 

[blackdog899]

Did I say to hide? I said we need be smart and careful what we post, sorry I assumed you understand that concept. The ebike people did the same thing. Showing a bunch of guys on videos bragging about how fast the new ebikes are and videos showing the blowing stop signs and telling everyone how to get around the speed limiters. Now cities all over the country are banning them or changing the laws. So I'm done preaching.

Good

 

[Silverpoint]

thanks , I researched also.
to me not practical in any way, a gimmick.
if somebody uses it to hunt it’s for a u tube video.
but then again so did Fred Bear in a manner of speaking.
Fred helped the archery and bow hunting world explode.

Fred was certainly a spokesperson who was foundational to building the archery industry. But he did it in a time before it became fashionable to do outrageous and stupid things in order to get attention. Not so sure this is even possible any longer.

 

[TempleDan]

Yes, the usual FUD about DOT. No one that tries to claim that high ground has ever one time shown a GB or CE certified tank that failed. All of these tanks are made in the same places and at the same time. The difference is the manner in which they are tested. Exact same tanks, just a different test methodology.

The idea is that somehow the tanks tested to the European standard are less safe than tanks tested to the US standard.

Because as we all well know those Europeans totally scrimp on government oversight and regulation.

Couldn't be the DOT standard is a bureaucratic standard that far exceeds necessary safety standards.

I won't even go into the fear factor and the reality of carbon fiber tank failure modes. Well, maybe a little, they don't explode, unless physically stressed to the point of shattering the aluminum liner.

-- Matt

DOT is just another standard similar to OSHA here in the states. Good to a point, but too many pinheads pushing pencils coming up with things that really aren’t needed. And dive tanks are inspected for pressure yes, but also for possible contaminates.

 

[SpindleB]

DOT is just another standard similar to OSHA here in the states. Good to a point, but too many pinheads pushing pencils coming up with things that really aren’t needed. And dive tanks are inspected for pressure yes, but also for possible contaminates.

Standards primarily written by the industry that is regulated.

 

[OldVet]

My air tanks better than your air tank mine is better then yours because I use an old Scott scba tank mine is better than yours. Lol.

 

[DesertSilver]

One thing everyone is missing on the dot, and European standards it the testing of the materials being used as in the carbon fiber prepreg. I spent 35 years in the aerospace industry making, testing, and building parts for aircraft and rockets. The rigorous testing to engineering requirements costs a lot of money. On top of that the QC involved is also costly. Do you think the Chinese are going to invest that kind of money to keep Americans safe? Do you think if they find a batch of prepreg that had something go wrong in the manufacturing process is going to be scrapped?

 

[Sergey1972]

One thing everyone is missing on the dot, and European standards it the testing of the materials being used as in the carbon fiber prepreg. I spent 35 years in the aerospace industry making, testing, and building parts for aircraft and rockets. The rigorous testing to engineering requirements costs a lot of money. On top of that the QC involved is also costly. Do you think the Chinese are going to invest that kind of money to keep Americans safe? Do you think if they find a batch of prepreg that had something go wrong in the manufacturing process is going to be scrapped?

Totally agree. It's not a problem until it's a problem. My loctite library is expensive to maintain. Expired loctite still works until it doesn't (not predictable). We keep all of ours current and properly stored. Too expensive and not always possible to test the loctite function. Carbon fiber is the same way. Who is saving on material and can we trust them? They will get away with it 95% of the time. When a failure happens who gets the pain/injury/financial loss?

 

[SpindleB]

My air tanks better than your air tank mine is better then yours because I use an old Scott scba tank mine is better than yours.

One thing everyone is missing on the dot, and European standards it the testing of the materials being used as in the carbon fiber prepreg. I spent 35 years in the aerospace industry making, testing, and building parts for aircraft and rockets. The rigorous testing to engineering requirements costs a lot of money. On top of that the QC involved is also costly. Do you think the Chinese are going to invest that kind of money to keep Americans safe? Do you think if they find a batch of prepreg that had something go wrong in the manufacturing process is going to be scrapped?

Yes, they most assuredly do invest all that. How else do you imagine they get their DOT or CE certifications? How do they pass their recertification? Every tank is serialized for tracking, part of the standard.

Why would they lose that certification and access to the North American and European markets?

Does your experience give you direct insight to the actual manufacturing processes used? Or are you just guessing.

-- Matt

 

[DesertSilver]

There's so many things that can go wrong starting with the chemical manufacturing and storage to the making of the acrilic yarn. Then you have the cabonizing of the yarn turning it into carbon fiber. Then you have the chemicals used to make the resin system and their storage. This is all before it ever reaches the prepreger.

 

[blackdog899]

One thing everyone is missing on the dot, and European standards it the testing of the materials being used as in the carbon fiber prepreg. I spent 35 years in the aerospace industry making, testing, and building parts for aircraft and rockets. The rigorous testing to engineering requirements costs a lot of money. On top of that the QC involved is also costly. Do you think the Chinese are going to invest that kind of money to keep Americans safe? Do you think if they find a batch of prepreg that had something go wrong in the manufacturing process is going to be scrapped?

Again I’ll say if they sell it cheap I will buy.

I don’t care for over the top safety regulations.
I just got into this pcp stuff 3 & 1/2 months ago..
have accumulated a 3 , 9 , 6.8 here next week, 580 cc yesterday
all the gun tanks. How many are starting or have longer bought
Tuxing or whatever Chinese brand ? How many forum members
are describing the Big Explosion . Not impossible for sure but
also not probable.