Question for Airgun Enthusiasts

[Peashooter]

While some (minor?) percentage of the people who bought Impacts and Mavericks might have added those accessories I suspect that many people don't have them

I liked his post and voted NO.

My Maverick always been sensitive to the touch, and the people i often see hanging off their scope while shooting what ever rifle is a mystery to me.

So i can be shooting pretty damn fine, and then change to a new target a foot or so to the side of where i was shooting, and BAM i have to click again.
And it is not like i have my rifle clamped down in the Caldwell Rock BR i use, actually right now the 2 " clamps " are just there as stops to prevent rifle falling off to the side of it.

I have also noticed a new trend with bench shooters wanting their fore end to be slick as snot on a doorknob, so the super grippy feet on bipods ASO seem to be not so popular these days, i think i saw someone put pellet tins under their bipod so it would slide around better.
So it seem to me rifles / some rifles are torsion sensitive.
On the maverick i always preferred a very light touch, so my cheek barely touch the cheek rest, and i am almost not gripping the grip in fear of " hanging " in it.

Well at least for the people not able to afford super expensive front end supports.

I expect any air rifle to accommodate bipod placement in a sensible place, and in front of trigger guard i do not find sensible, so i am pretty much always let down seeing a new otherwise sweet new rifle.

 

[jps2486]

A lot may depend on the dealer you buy from when buying new.

If a new air gunner want to get in, but just shoot. No adjusting, nothing. There may not be many that work, efficiently out of the box. Will that guy know he is only getting half the shots he could?

If not a tinker or forum rat, they will never know. Some will continue on not knowing kuz it does shoot. Others may not be as pleased but figure that’s the way it is and not buy that brand again.

It’s easy to say the manufacturers should do this or that. But many of these things would do nothing but drive cost up. The strategic seems to be make as many as cheaply as you can and hope you make more people happy than you make mad. Most inexpensive brands are like this from what I see.

It’s poor business.

I'm not looking to drive the price up. IMO, FX rifles are priced higher than they should be. There are some fine rifles available for less money, like RAW, and now the third world countries are flooding the market with rifles that have all the same parts and features of an FX, but at 1/3 the cost. Quality? Ya, they are not as good, so don't jump on me for that. I agree partially with Vana2 about adding features that buyers may not want, but practically speaking, that little bitty short pic rail that comes stock with the rifle is pretty chintzy to me. In order to attach a bipod and protect the air tank at the same time, a lower rail extension is almost a must. The stronger backbone's effectiveness may be academic, so I will back away from that one. I'm sure FX has to be sure not to tread on the aftermarket folks that supply all these goodies too, and we are also at the mercy of the EU as well.

 

[EPG]

I voted “No” - under the assumption that “satisfactory” means meeting the manufacturer’s published specifications.

One reason I got into this hobby is that I’m good at fixing and improving things. So these airguns are tailor made for me.

I’m going to take apart every Airgun I’ve got. I’m gonna give em a trigger tune, polish up internals to make rifle cock smoother and perform more consistently.

Today I tore apart my .22 Daystate Huntsman - and a Huntsman performs great out of the box. I’m gonna take apart the trigger and polish it up to make it lighter (probably replace a spring or two) and shorten the length of 1st stage a bit. I also ordered a bunch of springs from AliExpress - gonna try to optimize it for about 20 ft/lbs via hammer spring - should also lighten cocking effort. Why?… because it’s fun …

… and I think the Huntsman was designed around 12 ft/lbs and is a bit stiff cocking and “stressed” at 28 ft/lbs via- so let’s target 20 ft/lbs - right in the middle - and see how she performs. Super simple rifle to work on.

All things mechanical eventually need maintenance. I think it’s important to know how your rifle functions - so that you can properly maintain it and keep it performing well… and safely. Working on these rifles is a huge part of the fun of the hobby.

-Ed

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

I guess it depends on the price product and/or platform as to whether I buy expecting to modify it or not. I started tinkering with the first generation Impact's and didn't buy it for that reason. It didn't really need anything for benchrest shooting necessarily but with the input from us tinkerer's that company has evolved the product to what we have said was needed to make it pretty nice. When I bought the new AEA 457 Challenger Bullpup I knew it would need a work in progress, and sure wasn't wrong there. When I buy an AAA product I know it will be meticulously built and perform well and all I need to do is find ammo and a tune for accuracy. Buying a tank or compress we shouldn't have to tinkerer too much except for air drying apparatus.

 

[beerthief]

Sad to say but i think the Higher priced items are the ones falling a bit short in the "out of the box " category . But i am only going by what i read here and a few other places . However i do think all companies have an acceptable margin of error , the larger the production number the higher the number of errors . but still it is the same percentage of errors .

 

[Peskådot671]

I expect it to work as advertised with the exception of a minor tune. I shouldn't have to buy another regulator, manometer, or have to come up with a fix to stiffen the barrel.

 

[SpindleB]

When purchasing new airguns or support equipment, is it reasonable to expect customers to pay MSRP (or a slightly discounted sale price) and have to alter products to get said products’ performance to an acceptable or optimal level to the consumer? I’m not talking about tuning airguns. I’m talking about new airguns, SCBA tanks, regulators, compressors, moderators, etc out of the box.

Edit: These are subjective terms, so allow me to clarify for added context.

“Acceptable” meaning to your expectations. “Optimal” meaning does the performance meet or exceed the manufacturer’s description of the product’s capabilities or performance?

Depends, what you bought may be set to some other specification you want a different set up. Reasonable to expect to modify. As long as you know what you are getting then whether you adjust things or not is irrelevant.

It is when there is a disconnect between expectations and reality that is the problem. Defining source of the problem is the first issue. Oversold or ignorance? I've watched more than a few cases where blame is laid at the feet of the source when the causation was clearly lack of preparation or knowledge. Then there is the source singing hosannas with regard to their products and the reality is *special case* or just poor quality. For example FPS specs.

-- Matt

 

[PumaCarl]

I won't vote on it because I want the cheap guns to stay cheap. The top tier guns should absolutely work as advertised. That's why people buy them. It is tough though, if you like to work on them anyway, to send them back and be out of your gun, and leave them to the mercy of the shipping industry. If so much wasn't lost or damaged in shipping, I would say that you should always use the warranty you paid for.

 

[steve123]

I just love it when I pay for anything that doesn't work correctly - regardless of price.
Love it more when I have to send it back on my own dime.
More so I love worrying about damage or loss while shipping and hoping beyond hope the shipping company will even honor a claim I just paid insurance for.
Have you ever got the item back and it's still not working right, or failed again within a few days?! I have.

Oh the joys of being the Beta testers!

Those manufacturers don't mind NOT spending the extra few minutes or penny's making things right to begin with.

 

[techna]

Out of the box, a gun should be safe, leak free, attain acceptable velocity, deliver reasonable accuracy consistent with expectations the manufacturer instilled, and not be prone to breakage through normal use. There are other details I’d likely want to see, but I guess those are the big ones. As an unapologetic tinkerer, I often find some minor room for improvement to be a feature and not a bug when it comes to many (but not all) of my toys. Also, as a service technician for 35 years, one of my favorite things to hear from a customer was “I’ve had several people unsuccessfully try to figure out what was wrong, do you think you can get it sorted?”. So there’s a peek into my mindset. While I can’t be certain, I suspect that phrases like “ boringly accurate” or “boring level of reliability“ were coined by gluttons for punishment such as myself. If there happened to be an airgun that had zero real or imagined faults and additionally left no room for customization, I’m not sure I’d find it interesting. I know for sure that I wouldn’t stand in line to get one. I accept that there are many who may feel differently and I’m not knocking that in any way.

 

[JimD]

I kind of enjoy improving my guns but I wouldn't mind if they didn't need so much improvement. But a primary activity is making the gun fit my long arms, big hands, and high cheek bones. The LOP is never long enough, the trigger is too close, and the comb is never high enough. My body is not average so I don't blame gun makers but I may try one with a more adjustable stock next.

A thing in favor of my one higher priced gun that arrived with issues is that I could solve them easily with minimum investment and I now have a nice gun. I think my cheaper guns are nice too but I cannot "fix" the sloppier cocking linkage and other consequences of looser machining tolerances. They work fine and have a weight advantage over pricier guns but I agree I could tell the difference blindfolded just from the way they cock. So it's nice if they leave you things to do they are cheap and simple to fix.

 

[rcarlisle]

Thus far, all the guns I've bought functioned as advertised out of the box. I've still slowly "customized" some with aftermarket parts, but they've all been "satisfactory" when received. But I buy from dealers who test for leaks and function before shipping and thus far, no leaks on arrival and they operated as expected. If that were not the case, I would have sent the gun back immediately. I don't mind dealing with maintenance, but I wouldn't tolerate any malfunction in a new gun at any price.

 

[Motorhead]

EDUCATION is Power
RELATIVITY is Power
EXPERIENCE is Power

The MORE you KNOW is Power & harder it becomes to be satisfied with the statue quo of goods or services ... Fact !!

 

[dgeesaman]

When it comes to optics, mounts, tanks, and compressors my answer is a hard no. That s**t needs to be right, every time, the first time.

When it comes to PCPs my answer is also a no, considering that accuracy is subjective and excluded from consideration. Also PCP o rings are not bulletproof and sometimes they fail when it doesn’t seem reasonable.

When it’s springer air rifles my answer is a gentle no. Each springer with factory power, lubes, and tune ends up being its own peculiar animal. Unfortunately for manufacturers who make springers, there is a good bit more performance out there in both shot cycle and accuracy when a rifle is tuned well and therefore it makes a lot of springer buyers a bit spoiled.

We all want the only most accurate barrels and most beautiful wood but the reality is that’s not how the world (the world I can afford) works.

 

[Sleestak]

When purchasing new airguns or support equipment, is it reasonable to expect customers to pay MSRP (or a slightly discounted sale price) and have to alter products to get said products’ performance to an acceptable or optimal level to the consumer? I’m not talking about tuning airguns. I’m talking about new airguns, SCBA tanks, regulators, compressors, moderators, etc out of the box.

Edit: These are subjective terms, so allow me to clarify for added context.

“Acceptable” meaning to your expectations. “Optimal” meaning does the performance meet or exceed the manufacturer’s description of the product’s capabilities or performance?

Most people who will be willing to pay MSRP will probably expect some level of tech support beyond the purchase.

It can be worth the premium IMO

That said, many who feel more confident in their 'skills' are probably more willing to take a chance over a killer deal when it comes up

 

[Ezana4CE]

@Sleestak How about you?

 

[ctshooter]

My answer is no - if you are paying over $1000 for an airgun it should have stellar performance and nothing less.

$1000 is a lot of money. I could buy a washer and dryer. I could buy a refrigerator. I could buy a stove and microwave combo. And I would expect they all work as described and will give me 6-8 years of good service.

I realize airguns are a bit niche, but the fact that Daystate is selling utter garbage barrels at $800 a pop for a $3500 gun that can't even stay on paper at 100 yards in sketch (and YES I had an Alpha Wolf with a barrel so bad it wouldn't stay on paper at 100 yards in .25, .30 was 6-10 inch groups).

 

[ctshooter]

Most people who will be willing to pay MSRP will probably expect some level of tech support beyond the purchase.

It can be worth the premium IMO

That said, many who feel more confident in their 'skills' are probably more willing to take a chance over a killer deal when it comes up

That's not how MSRP works. MSRP is a price set by the maker that all dealers cannot go below. This is to encourage competition among sellers and make sure the little guys don't get squeezed out. A dealer can help themselves stand out by providing stellar service or after purchase support.

 

[Sleestak]

@Sleestak How about you?

Yeah, for sure if it were full priced and especially a high-end product as air guns are apt to be, I think it's only reasonable to have those expectations.

It's a 'relationship' that can lead to bigger spending. Retailers can ignore this at their own peril.

 

[Firewalker]

That's not how MSRP works. MSRP is a price set by the maker that all dealers cannot go below. This is to encourage competition among sellers and make sure the little guys don't get squeezed out. A dealer can help themselves stand out by providing stellar service or after purchase support.

Um... No.

MSRP is simply Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price and distributors do not follow it and dealers do no have to follow it UNLESS an agreement with the distributor is in place.

Dealerships are not drop-shippers, there are ways around every convention.