I'm not a hunter but I'm just curious what is the acceptable group size parameter that you must keep it in to determine what distance you would use an air gun to hunt? Dime, nickel, quarter or other??
Question for ethical hunters
- Thread starter Simplemann
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Size of the vitals at those distances for the specific animal. My backyard pest rifle needs to be dime at 25y so I can head shot rodents.
I always like to doubling the FPE "required" for the specific animal, and find ammo that will transfer the maximum amount of energy. I test ammo in ballistic gel and live targets with a sturdy backstop so I know what my pass through expectations are. I know they get a lot done with 12 FPE, but if I can deliver 24 FPE and the projectile stays in, i know there is more energy resulting in a more humane kill. I had a PCP shooting 12 FPE muzzle with domes smacking my backstop HARD after passing and lodging in the wood. I've taken several shots in the last month with a 25 cal FX hybrid with 3:1 no pass, the ones that did silently bounced off the wood backstop barely leaving a mark. Thats 50 FPE at target.
I always like to doubling the FPE "required" for the specific animal, and find ammo that will transfer the maximum amount of energy. I test ammo in ballistic gel and live targets with a sturdy backstop so I know what my pass through expectations are. I know they get a lot done with 12 FPE, but if I can deliver 24 FPE and the projectile stays in, i know there is more energy resulting in a more humane kill. I had a PCP shooting 12 FPE muzzle with domes smacking my backstop HARD after passing and lodging in the wood. I've taken several shots in the last month with a 25 cal FX hybrid with 3:1 no pass, the ones that did silently bounced off the wood backstop barely leaving a mark. Thats 50 FPE at target.
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Depends on the game, and you own ability. Small requires a more accurate gun. Big game requires a more powerful gun.
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Not necessarily. Accuracy is always supreme.
I try to keep my shots inside a half inch, but that said, things do happen and not always for the better. Shooting at the bench will always produce better groups than in the field.
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You can make up some to scale critters to set up in various locations and distance and practice head shot only . 
If you do that you kinda got confidence you can make a clean kill
If you do that you kinda got confidence you can make a clean kill
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A .45 that will produce 3.5” groups at 100 yards off the bench combined with your in the field hold of + 1.5” puts you at a 5” group at 100 in the field, enough to double lung a white tail. A .20 that does 1” at 100 off a bench puts you at 2.5” at 100 in the field. It isn’t strong enough to double lung a white tail at 100. It may not be strong enough to puncture skull at 100. Even if it does puncture skull the outer edges of the 2.5“ may not kill the deer but leave it impaired where it dies a slow painful death from disease. Point being is accuracy is NOT ”always supreme”.
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For me air gun hunting ethics are the same as powder burners. The correct caliber and fpe for the game, shooting practice, gun, scope and ammo knowledge etc...
We wouldn't hunt elk with a .22 LR, and if we did we wouldn't use one that was off 6". If a gun can't shoot tight enough for a head shot, it would be bad if someone kept trying head shots.
So to me it's not so much the group size but more of knowing what the gun and the shooter together can do at a given distance.
Ethics is about having respect for the game and doing everything possible to ensure a clean kill.
I know of many powder burner hunting stories that one could question the ethics of the shooter, and even more where ethical shooters (gun and bow) watched as the game ran off to suffer and die because of a bad shot, shaking?, last day of the season so go for it?, a ton of reasons why, sometimes it just happens no matter how hard we try.
We wouldn't hunt elk with a .22 LR, and if we did we wouldn't use one that was off 6". If a gun can't shoot tight enough for a head shot, it would be bad if someone kept trying head shots.
So to me it's not so much the group size but more of knowing what the gun and the shooter together can do at a given distance.
Ethics is about having respect for the game and doing everything possible to ensure a clean kill.
I know of many powder burner hunting stories that one could question the ethics of the shooter, and even more where ethical shooters (gun and bow) watched as the game ran off to suffer and die because of a bad shot, shaking?, last day of the season so go for it?, a ton of reasons why, sometimes it just happens no matter how hard we try.
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Accuracy IS always supreme. No matter the caliber, no matter the distance. It's up to the shooter to know his and his equipments limits. The question was about ethical kills. Your examples, while valid, only pertain to the 2% of idiots that would take those shots. A double lung shot is not anymore guaranteed with a .45 as with a .20. Too many variables come in to play at the squeeze of the trigger. It's seen with archery as deer duck the arrow and squirrels ducking the pellet at further distances. The longer the shot, the more time an animal has to react when it hears the sound before the projectile gets there. Suppressors do help with that, though. When you know the limits and stay within them, accuracy is ALWAYS supreme.
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I appreciate the replies from everyone but I was just looking for the group size/distance that's acceptable 
. When I shot in my garage with an air gun 7yds I would "like" to keep it within a dime. At the range 15 yd I with a crosman carbine I "try" for 1". At 25 yds I'm happy with 1.5". I was just curious and a dime at 25 yds and a nickel at 40yd I'm going to have to get a better rifle, cause you know that would be the solution.
. When I shot in my garage with an air gun 7yds I would "like" to keep it within a dime. At the range 15 yd I with a crosman carbine I "try" for 1". At 25 yds I'm happy with 1.5". I was just curious and a dime at 25 yds and a nickel at 40yd I'm going to have to get a better rifle, cause you know that would be the solution.Upvote 0
To what i suggested above..I appreciate the replies from everyone but I was just looking for the group size/distance that's acceptable
The army stopped using "bullseye" type targets and started using human shape targets snd thete kill rate skyrocketed.
Shooting a bulls target aint shooting a critter .. if you get my drift on the morel of the story.... Then even one thing live critters do that cardboard critters cant and thats flinch.. then maybe critters in your area have target colored fur? Idk..?
Then you say group size ? Well to scale bird or squirrel heads with 5 shots in them ???? Ya know..
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I don't see this , if you shoot dime size groups @100 @ your range why do you say it opens up to much larger in the field . or Maybe your standing free hand ? I do not shoot freehand ever , either prown or braced on a solid tree , or i just do not take the shot.
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I go by my maximum effective range and the maximum energy range for the current conditions.
For small game and pests, that's the range at which I can keep all 10 shots inside a 1 inch circle and have enough energy for a humane kill. For deer I use a 4 inch circle.
I practice off-hand shooting , resting, sitting, kneeling and prone because the maximum effective range is different for different positions.
For small game and pests, that's the range at which I can keep all 10 shots inside a 1 inch circle and have enough energy for a humane kill. For deer I use a 4 inch circle.
I practice off-hand shooting , resting, sitting, kneeling and prone because the maximum effective range is different for different positions.
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Without getting into the actual numbers. The criteria is that you are able to place the projectile into the “kill zone” aka hitting the vitals (lungs, heart or brain (not just any “headshot”). Shutting down the central nervous system. All living things have specific places where a projectile will put them down fast. An ethical hunter learns the size and place of these zones on the animals they intend to hunt. Then it’s up to the individual to know their, and their equipments limitations “in the field”.
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I guess if you put a 1 inch 5 pellet group in a squirrel im pretty sure hes down after that 
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Shooting accurately from the bench isn't the same as shooting accurately from field positions, obviously. I have 3 P35s. The 22 is the best at the 30 yard challenge, I shot one 199 target with it meaning all but one shot at least touched a 1/8 circle at 30 yards. It's also made a few kill shots on squirrels where I could only see part of the head. But the least accurate, the 25 caliber, has killed 18 squirrels for me and I've lost none with it. I'm not sure I would take a shot when I could only see part of the head with this gun, however. It will only do about a 150 at the 30 yard challenge. That's consistently keeping shots within a 3/4 inch circle at 30 yards. Usually finding a decent rest for my gun is more of an issue for placement than the gun. I only shoot off hand if I have to and not more than about 20 yards. I will take a longer shot when I have solid support for the gun, the gun's accuracy is secondary. But I still like that P35-22. I know if I do my part it will deliver. But the 25 always has too. More accuracy means tougher and/or longer shot capability. As long as the gun will consistently shoot into the vitals, the gun is capable. The biggest limitation in nearly all cases is not the gun, it is the shooter.
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Growing up, I'd shoot red milk jug caps, which are the size of a squirrel's vitals. For group size, I prefer a three-leaf clover with all the holes touching. This will have all the bullets hitting within the center of the crosshair. Many a squirrel fell peaking through the fork of a branch.
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