Question for Mycapt65 on HW30s & HW50s

Mycapt65,
I am in hopes you might have the time to give me some advice on HW30s and HW50s rifles. If so thank you for the gift of your time, knowledge and experience. First a bit of background to put things in context. I am an active, fit 67 year old here in North Western Maine and am returning to air guns. Like many, my first gun was a BSA springer as a young boy. My first hunts for squirrels. Like many I moved on to the 22 lr, then the deer rifle and left spring guns behind. I recently decided to get a springer for target practice, Red Squirrel pest control in my large garden, small orchard and bird feeder and for some occasional Grey squirrel hunting. After many hours of research (Wow, air guns have changed!) I have purchased two springers. I have a HW30s on hand and have a HW50s coming next week. You seem to have an affinity for these guns, hence my seeking you out. The HW30s is wearing an older Bushnell Banner 1.5-4.5x scope. It has a smooth shot cycle out of the box and is insanely accurate with 8.4g pellets. 4 Red Squirrels have passed into the great beyond in its first couple of days here in Maine, so it is earning its keep. After 50 shots I removed the barrel and inspected it for galling, which had just started. The cocking arm linkage at the riveted knuckle was very stiff. I worked that till it was functioning freely and lubed it. I then polished the rough surface of the cocking arm until it was smooth with various grades of emery cloth and put a smear of lube on it. The plan is to make the HW30s my fun gun and bird feeder pesting gun. I may put a Williams peep on it, I may keep it scoped. Is there anything else that you would advise I do to it? It will probably see 500 rounds a year, as many interests compete for my time. Now the HW50s I have more concerns. It is reported to be a fine gun, but few seem to like the shot cycle out of the box. The heavier cocking will not be a bother as its role will be as a hunter, longer range orchard pester and it will likely only see 100 rounds a year. What would you advise here. I have the tools and skills to take apart and do a drop in tune, deburr, etc. I am not a machinist, don't really want to get into spring cutting, do not have a chronograph. I don't want to be constantly tinkering, just dial them in and use them as the fine tools that they are. Oh, and both are .177.
 
Last edited:
The joint in the lever being tight is not the problem. It should be tight. Built that way. If the tight joint was at all an issue the gulling would have started on day one. The bent spring is the only thing that changed. It bends and when enough it gets to the shoe and or piston wall and starts putting lateral pressure on the one side. That is why your damage is not centered. The groove in the receiver will also be scared on the same side. When the gun is at rest “with a bent spring” this is when there is the smallest amount of spring pressure and it slowly shifts the piston to one side. Continual use will cause the groove to get eaten until the joint in the lever binds. Then the joint also jams “doesn’t function properly” and starts digging into the receiver. Opening the joint only works until the groove is eaten enough to start the process over again. A sleeve and a good fitting spring guide will hold the spring straight (unless the spring has a internal flaw) and the problem is solved. Buffing the shoe is also a help to insure the spring does not get/ hang on it. Lots of different opinions on this issue. This has been my experience for over 40 years of trial and error.
 
Bear,
Thank you. I see that I have only temporarily fixed the issue. I did inspect the shoe and found it to be quite smooth, so left it as is. I would like to put in a permanent fix to this. The sleeve and spring guide that you mention seem to be the way to go. What after market product would you recommend and I will purchase it and install it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: maxtrouble
I have only ever used the Vortek kit. The sleeve was once made of nylon and now steel. The nylon one was a good fix. I just installed the new steel one and haven’t used it enough to give an opinion yet. Ron (Mycapt65) doesn’t care for it. He’s very knowledgeable and I trust his opinion. We have talked and I think he puts a lot of the blame on the cocking lever shoe being sharp and oversized. I agree but also think the spring needs containment. The spring/shoe are the culprits. So I recommend both. Make sure the shoe does get to the steel sleeve. This is the cure.
 
Last edited:
FWIW I have a HW50 in .20cal, I removed the spring under the wear strip in the cocking arm and installed an ARH kit and made a plastic piston liner, still running OEM seal but have a Vortek to install next time it comes apart. Have had no issues and has a very nice shot cycle with 0 spring twang. I have vortek kits and seals in both my R7 and HW30 installed and tuned by Mycapt, both are very accurate and shoot awesome. I know Ron addressed some galling issues on both rifles, one was brand new with only a couple dozen shots through it, spring is not bent so that was not the issue on this rifle anyway. I'm sure Ron will be along to provide much more information.
 
Bad springs when removed are not always bent. They can have a weak spot and bind under a load. Take a brand new HW30 and it shoots 100’s maybe 1000’s of pellets without issue. Then suddenly it changes and drags when cocking. What possibly could have changed that suddenly? However, when a new gun starts galling immediately, then there are other issues. Could be the fork/shoe on the cocking lever. Could be a lever that is out of line also. Could be a number of things.
 
  • Like
Reactions: maxtrouble
Bad springs when removed are not always bent. They can have a weak spot and bind under a load. Take a brand new HW30 and it shoots 100’s maybe 1000’s of pellets without issue. Then suddenly it changes and drags when cocking. What possibly could have changed that suddenly? However, when a new gun starts galling immediately, then there are other issues. Could be the fork/shoe on the cocking lever. Could be a lever that is out of line also. Could be a number of things.
Most of the galling issues are starting right out of the box it’s not caused by the spring.
 
  • Like
Reactions: maxtrouble
Thanks OQ for calling me out. First I want to congratulate you on your fine rifle and caliber choices. So there's lots of different trains of thought on your questions. I've voiced my opinions several times here with mixed feedback from others. I do have a great affinity for both rifles. In the interest of efficiency please reach out to me via personal message, conversation or chat, whatever they call it now and I'll give you my phone number. I'd be very happy to help. Btw I love Maine. It's beautiful. My friend had a place in Fairfield and years later had a great experience regarding BB guns and an Ellsworth police woman on my 2019 vacation. I look forward to hearing from you.
Be well
Ron
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: maxtrouble
Thanks OQ for calling me out. First I want to congratulate you on your fine rifle and caliber choices. So there's lots of different trains of thought on your questions. I've voiced my opinions several times here with mixed feedback from others. I do have a great affinity for both rifles. In the interest of efficiency please reach out to me via personal message, conversation or chat, whatever they call it now and I'll give you my phone number. I'd be very happy to help. Btw I love Maine. It's beautiful. My friend had a place in Fairfield and years later had a great experience regarding BB guns and an Ellsworth police woman on my 2019 vacation. I look forward to hearing from you.
Be well
Ron
Ron,
Thank you for your kind response and offer to help me out with some advice! I am not at the required 10 posts that will activate my ability to Private Message members and will not likely hit that mark soon as I don't usually really frequent the web. If you could email me at then we can exchange contact info. After that I will edit this post.
Thanks
Tom
 
Last edited:
Ron,
Thank you for your kind response and offer to help me out with some advice! I am not at the required 10 posts that will activate my ability to Private Message members and will not likely hit that mark soon as I don't usually really frequent the web. If you could email me at [email protected] then we can exchange contact info. After that I will edit this post.
Thanks
Tom
Email sent
 
Well I ordered Vortek kits and seals for the HW30 and Hw50 today. Also a better set of brass punches, hollow ground screw drivers than what I had in the shop. Also some good Moly paste and some more emery cloth. The adventure begins. Will report back in a bit on how this proceeds. Will need some better weather up here in North Western Maine to put many holes in paper. We had -22 the other day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MB1
Well I ordered Vortek kits and seals for the HW30 and Hw50 today. Also a better set of brass punches, hollow ground screw drivers than what I had in the shop. Also some good Moly paste and some more emery cloth. The adventure begins. Will report back in a bit on how this proceeds. Will need some better weather up here in North Western Maine to put many holes in paper. We had -22 the other day.
You are going to have fun. Without a chronograph, you might double check your zero. Whatever you chose, 20, 25, etc. yards. Get comfortable on the shooting bench and get a good zero before you install a kit. You might even shoot a group at distance to check drop. Then you can check impacts after the tune to compare. None of this is important but it's fun if you want to compare before and after.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Oquossoc
You are going to have fun. Without a chronograph, you might double check your zero. Whatever you chose, 20, 25, etc. yards. Get comfortable on the shooting bench and get a good zero before you install a kit. You might even shoot a group at distance to check drop. Then you can check impacts after the tune to compare. None of this is important but it's fun if you want to compare before and after.
I was wondering about doing that. I thought if I could figure the drop at the center of two 10 shot groups with a known change in range and I compared it to what the ballistics calculator shows me for different velocity inputs I could get a fair idea of what was going on. I do know the HW30s was shooting 8.4g at 621 fps at AoA. I am at 1500 ft elevation so I'll factor that in. I am paying PA for a 10 shot Chrono test on the HW50s too, so I'll have a starting place there. I am tempted to get a chrono. Since I reload for my centerfire rifles it would be handy..... the slippery slope....
 
  • Like
Reactions: MB1
I received the HW30s Vortek PG4 kit and a HW35 kit was mistakenly sent instead of a HW50s kit, so working that out. Yesterday I disassembled the 30. Completely cleaned it, honestly it wasn't too overly lubed. I used a small, fine needle file and emery cloth and deburred every opening into the tube. Then I took fine emery cloth wrapped around a 3/4" dowel and polished the inside where the openings are. I deburred the cocking foot slot on the piston. The original piston seal looked very good, no cuts, as did the original spring. I replaced the piston seal with a Vortek. Using a bright light I inspected the insides of the tube, looking for any spatter or slag where they braze the end piece into the tube. It looked very good. Very lightly lubed the side of the new Vortek seal, skirt of the piston, cocking foot slot, spring, top hat and reassembled. Assemble went smooth, used a long shop wood working clamp to hold the end plug in the perfect location to avoid cross threading the plug keeper screw. Good news was that the initial galling of the outside of the tube by the cocking arm has completely stopped. This due to my previous efforts at loosening the knuckle joint of the stiff cocking arm and polishing the rough surface of the cocking arm. Mounted the old Bushnell scope and sighted it in. Cocking is very smooth, perhaps a very little more effort than stock spring. Shooting cycle, no vibration or noise other than a solid thunk. Sighting in went well, walked it in to zero. First few groups reasonable, but as the session went on using RWS 7.0, JSB 7.3, H&N 8.6, JSB 8.4 things went south. Spraying, and 1 1/2" at 10 yards. I was holding 1/3" with Williams peep. Checked scope for loosening, checked stock screws, checked barrel lock up. Put about 100 rounds through it. Think it might be the old Bushnell has died?
 
Good to hear the mechanical procedures were un-eventful. Very possible you killed the bushnell. My HW30 with OEM springs killed a 4X Hawke Vantage, sadly. I went back with a Hawke Airmax 2-7X32. Did you shoot a good long string of one certain pellet before you called it dead? Sounds like you have a good accuracy standard to compare to with that Williams peep sight.