Questions about the new Texans

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Raden1942

Raden1942

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Feb 15, 2018
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California, United States
I am getting a new Texan but can't figure out which one to get. There's alot of conflicting info out there so maybe you guys can help me choose. I was going to get the 50 CF LSS but found out that it's a 510 and not compatible with my lyman 50 cal muzzle loader. Also bullet moulds are significantly more expensive than the 45. So that's what I will go with. Question #1 will the Lee dies for 4570 work OK with the barrel diameter of the Texan? Airforce claims it's a 457 but Tom Gaylord says it's actually a 458. Please let me know if you use the cheap Lee dies and if they are accurate. Also if you know of a cheap mould for casting balls please let me know. Question #2 what is the twist rate of the CF long I've heard 1in30 from Tom gaylord and 1in20 is the twist rate of the CF SS and carbine on airforce website. This is very confusing to me. Tom almost never gets things wrong so I'm assuming 1in30 was the older twist rate and now airforce is using a faster 1in20 to stabilize heavier bullets? OK last question. What size bullets would you recommend for the carbine and what size for the LSS? I am wondering if it's worth it to me to carry around that extra length. I have never hunted big game with a big bore but it seems to me that the carbine is probably making enough power for even very large game. Please help me decide guys. I'd especially really appreciate any advice from people that hunt big game and people that cast bullets for the 457. The cheapest way that works is the way I'd like to go. Thanks in advance dudes. 
 
Oh yeah one more question. I heard with these Texans you actually have to crank the wheel to full power when operating at 3600psi to shoot light ammo. Let's say 250g and below and back it down to shoot heavier bullets going no farther than the second line from the right. Could you also fill to 3000 psi or less to shoot round ball and back the power wheel way down or does the new valve require higher pressure to operate properly? I was hoping to tune it way down for shot count and using those balls to hunt squirrel, rabbit and coons. Thanks
 
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I am getting a new Texan but can't figure out which one to get. There's alot of conflicting info out there so maybe you guys can help me choose. I was going to get the 50 CF LSS but found out that it's a 510 and not compatible with my lyman 50 cal muzzle loader. Also bullet moulds are significantly more expensive than the 45. So that's what I will go with. Question #1 will the Lee dies for 4570 work OK with the barrel diameter of the Texan? Airforce claims it's a 457 but Tom Gaylord says it's actually a 458. Please let me know if you use the cheap Lee dies and if they are accurate. Also if you know of a cheap mould for casting balls please let me know. Question #2 what is the twist rate of the CF long I've heard 1in30 from Tom gaylord and 1in20 is the twist rate of the CF SS and carbine on airforce website. This is very confusing to me. Tom almost never gets things wrong so I'm assuming 1in30 was the older twist rate and now airforce is using a faster 1in20 to stabilize heavier bullets? OK last question. What size bullets would you recommend for the carbine and what size for the LSS? I am wondering if it's worth it to me to carry around that extra length. I have never hunted big game with a big bore but it seems to me that the carbine is probably making enough power for even very large game. Please help me decide guys. I'd especially really appreciate any advice from people that hunt big game and people that cast bullets for the 457. The cheapest way that works is the way I'd like to go. Thanks in advance dudes.
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@Raden1942 I’m curious about this as well. I recall speaking to someone about this a while back and was told that I should slug the barrel use a sizing die and try size slugs down to see which size shoots best around my slugging results. I was advised to do this is in regards to sizes with variations in the thousandths before purchasing a mold. I’m thinking that if you already have a mold, maybe a sizer could help if your mold isn’t too far off. Hopefully guys doing it can provide good advice to us both. These are just ideas based on advice I was given. If I’m off base here it isn’t my intent to mislead anyone with inaccurate information. I hope you don’t mind my response. 
 
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I recently got what I think is a Lee round ball mold in .457 and it drops at about 141 grains. I just tried it out for the first time on Sunday and it was decently accurate. 
I haven’t really had a chance to heat cycle the mold yet, so I expect results will get better over time, but I was getting about 300 FPE and inch to inch and a half groups out of it at 55 yards.

This is with an older, stock Texan, 3 shots on a single fill, at 24” long hog steel target at 55 yards, right at 1000 ish fps.



36114A2D-9441-4FD7-9A81-7C637FA4CEB4.1644345842.jpeg

 
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So I am currently on the same journey as you right now and this is what I have and am experimenting with right now. I currently have the .457 Texan LSS CF and decided on this due to ammo availability compared to the .50 cal. I ordered .457 Pioneer roundball ammo with it when i ordered and it will shoot these north of 1100 fps. You can get quite a few decent shots out of it with the round ball. I think when I first chronoed it I got about 1000 fps for nearly ten shots from a 3300 psi fill. That's pretty awesome. I just got a Lee 2 cavity round ball mould for like $38 in the mail yesterday. I plan to cast some of these up and see how they do. I have not shot her for serious accuracy yet but my limited shooting indicates similar results to Ancientsword. I also have two slug dies I am playing with as well one is dropping at .460 and 305gr (old Ideal mould), while the other is dropping .458 and 348gr (Old Lyman mould). Both of these still shoot from my texan, but I have not accuracy tested them yet. I may have to invest in a sizing die, but I would like to shoot as the drop from mold so the 348gr might be the way to go for me. I have not tried any Lee slug dies.

On the note of the LSS vs the SS. I see the SS with the carbon fiber bottle and TX2 valve is making the same power as the old texan long. This would tell me they are more than sufficient for hunting large game since the old texans were used to take just about everything that anyone would want to hunt with an airgun.

Mr. Hollowpoint has some videos on the new texans on his youtube channel I would highly suggest you go look at those, very informative on the setting of the hammer spring and has some great data on velocity and power potential of the SS and LSS with the new valves and CF bottles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MRRXfeL8jw&t=932s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m_fWVsoHCI&t=936s

Hope this helps,

Alex
 
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So I was hoping to use round ball mostly for target and small game and then use a heavy loads when I go hunting big game. I know the standard Texans are great for this but are the new CF Texans too powerful? I might need to just tune it for heavy pills and set it and forget it. In that case wondering how heavy you can go in the carbine and how heavy you can go with the longer barrel. 
 
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@ackc1234 I saw those. I am totally leaning towards the SS because of exactly what you said it's making the same power as the old full size and much shorter. I just don't know if there is something amazing that the full size can do that the SS can't. For example maybe a 520G bullet can kill Bison or grizzly or something. Maybe it can shoot a 340g just way flatter or something. I have very limited experience with these guns and big bores in general. I had a bulldog and it was very nice but I didn't like the trigger. Anyway because I don't have the experience I'm finding it hard to balance the pros and cons and sadly I am finding that everyone has a different opinion. I read one article where a guy was saying that you need the long version to kill coyote because hollow points won't open up with the lower power. I heard Tom Gaylord say all you need is a 250g to kill deer. Obviously I trust Tom over random internet guy but it's like that with everything. I'm getting wildly different opinions from people which tells me there are people talking about something they don't really know about. So far the best info I got was Mr hollow point and Tom Gaylord. I think I am just going to buy the Lee 4570 dies I just measured my dads 4570 bullets and it measured 458 so I think that's fine. Remember when you buy your dies that a sizer won't help you if you get too small a diameter. Better to get one just slightly larger than your bore and then size it down. When I buy my gun I will size the bore and make a review here. You might want to follow me so you can benefit from my post. I plan on going deep into it. I'll also show how my accuracy turns out on the lee dies. Idk if your 460 die would be a good candidate for sizing down. If it's a true. 458 a .459 might be a better candidate. Please pm me if you have a successful accurate batch sizing down the 460. I'm just shooting in the dark here I just remembered my dad always telling me to never size down more than a thousandth of an inch. 
 
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It's funny I followed pistol forums for a few years when I was deciding what pistol I wanted for a hunting rig. Yeah I do a little to much research before I buy things. In any case a lot of the old timers on there with hundreds of pistol hunts between them always said a 240gr bullet doing 1000fps would kill anything in North America. It compares so well to the conversations we have now with airguns. They also fully believed that in the big bore pistols bullets with a flat meplate were the most affective for pistol speeds when compared to hollowpoint. Yeah I would prefer to just be able to drop bullets without sizing but we'll see. Everything i have is just stuff i picked up here and there while doing research and waiting for good deals. Its all experimentation at this point.
 
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will the Lee dies for 4570 work OK with the barrel diameter of the Texan? Airforce claims it's a 457 but Tom Gaylord says it's actually a 458



I have an older Texan 457 and I use the cheapie Lee mold for a 45/70 and I get good accuracy out to 65 yards. I've not tried further. They are near on par with some slugs I have from Mr. Hollowpoint at that range. I would expect the Mr. Hollowpoint bullets to do better at 75-100 yards, but it's rare that I shoot that far with this gun.

I also have a 457 RB mold, but if I'm going to cast RB's, it's just as easy to cast bullets so why bother? Just need to air up a little more often.
 
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i have found noe molds to work best for airgun just because u have a lot to pic from and they work great.. lee is ok but iv tried so many of them and never found one the really works great .. noe 186gr button slugs shoots around 960 in my carbine 457 but i size my small slugs to 458 for a little better seal. then i use 281gr hollow point that i size to 457... u will save a lot of money on ammo when u cast your own slugs but finding the right mold might take you a few trys. but if u like to shoot a lot and have a good back stop u can pick up you lead melt it back down and shoot some more..

i have a few youtube videos hunting deer with my cast ammo if u want to check it out michigan airgunner
 
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Wow chicken thief that post came right as I was ordering my 457.....that probably would have changed my mind 😡 son of a motherless rat! I cast fishing jigs and sinkers so I have experience casting but I thought you had to size way closer than that for good accuracy. That's the problem with things like reloading and bullet molds every one has thier own way and swears any other way is wrong. Oh well I went with the LSS btw. I really wanted the carbine but the American in me went with the bigger means more and more is better route. Lol hope I don't regret it. Anyway I may just buy some Corbin swage gear later and really get silly with it. For now having a way to make bullets in my pot or over a campfire Mel Gibson patriot style appeals to me. Thanks everyone. I intend on making an in depth review after I shoot the crap out of this gun. Oh and chiplicki I just subbed to Michigan airgunner on youtube. Can't wait to see your work. 
 
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Whew Raden, that’s a lot of questions! I have a .457 Texan SS, and cast my own bullets for it, so hopefully I can help some. First, the SS is a moderated (silenced) carbine, and it has plenty of killing power. I was talking to a guy in Texas that only uses round balls in his and kills deer easily. Another good point about the .457 (and it is a .457, not .458) is the number of molds available—lots in different styles and weights. 

I hear lots about the.457 vs .458, here’s the scoop as I see it. AirForce uses Lothar .457 barrels--they are normally very precise. Most of us find we are very close to .457, but some guns shoot some bullets best in .4t7, and others at .458. More on that later.

Speaking of molds, I have Lee, NOE, Accurate, and MP molds—all work, but each has preferred temps. Just part off the fun to play around with them! As to round balls, I have a Lee mold and it makes perfect balls.

Now about wheel settings, psi levels, bullet weights, and bullet styles (including .457 vs .458 diameters). These guns are much different than powder burners. Whenever you change one of the parameters (psi, wheel setting, bullet—diameter, weight, style) you change the performance—sometimes radically! It’s amazing that you can slightly change one thing and the bullets will group better or worse, will be inches (sometimes quite a bit) from where they were hitting before, will use different amounts of air, or will change velocity. Bottom line? For each bullet you will have to try different psi levels and wheel settings to get its optimum performance. This means those optimum wheel settings you mentioned may noT be the same in your gun. For example, I find my smaller bullets work best at about 3/4 power, not cranked down full. This sounds daunting if you buy bullets, but if you cast your own it’s great! You cast, shoot, catch your bullets (I can tell you how to make a cheap trap), then cast again! It’s an initial investment, but after that it’s really just your time. No powder, no primers, reused lead, and a gun that will take down an elk.

One last thing about the carbine (or SS) and the long barrel (or LSS). The power is basically the same, but if long-range shooting is your game, then the long barrel helps. However, the ballistics on either are similar, more like a black powder rifle than a standard deer rifle. You can expect a drop of 6-10” at 100: yards, and 25-40” at 150 yards—compare that to your.270!


 
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An old post but....
The 34" barrel twist rate is different from carbine barrel.
I just ordered a .457 CF long barrel and Lee 220,340 and 405 molds.
It's said that the lite round ball ammo on the Carbon fiber version causes tank dump since the projectile exits the barrel long before the valve closes.
I watched every video I can find....some say the Lee 340 grain is excellent others say thier gun hated it.
I'm looking to shoot white tail inside of 50 yards.340-500 grain is what I will try the most experimenting with.
I've seen .357 take out plenty of deer.
Any .457 ammo in any texan is probly overkill with good shot placement.

On a side note I wanted the carbine regular or carbon but Pyramid Air dropped the price $310 for cyber Monday so I was suckered in.A carbine barrel is $300 from airforce.
 
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Chickenthief said:
So the inexpensive Lee 515-450F sized to .510 with a lee push through sizer is what i shoot.

Works a treat.

https://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-515-450f.html

https://leeprecision.com/new-lube-size-kit-.510.html
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What kind of groups do you get at 100yds? About where do you set the hammer spring wheel? I have the 500gr Lee mould and have only had mine out a few times in cold weather, but it I got a few 3-4" groups at 100yds tethered. Just wondering if this is good as it gets?
 
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