What is the best distance to set zero for Field target shooting 10.34gr sub 12ft/lb.
Regards
Werner [Tomato]
Regards
Werner [Tomato]
Range in Distance
- Thread starter Tamatie
- Start date
All… just getting into airguns, less than 200 shots fired… I have three rifles, HW35 with SWFA 12X, RWS54 with SWFA 3-15X, and an AirArms TX200 with a ceepo BSA 3-9x. The two German guns are in .177 and the Brit is in .22.
Shooting them today I discovered something very different from my experience shooting center-fier and rimfire guns.
The air gun were all zero at 10 meters initially. My HW35 is a 7.5 joule version and I finally got a scope on it that works. My AA200 had no issues and dialed in just fine. The 177 pellets was a mix of pellets I had from when I first obtained the Weihrauch in Germany. The gun and pellets is around 40 years old. Theses pellets are VEB, HN, and RWS. The .22 cal are all newly delivered HN from PA. I brought two different weight and different size. I have not chronograph them for velocity yet.
The other distance I shot my rifles at were 15 yards and 20 yards (max fir my yard). The interesting thing I discovered is the point of impact goes higher as I get further. This is with both the Weihrauch and AirArms. Didn’t have time or energy to mess with my RWS
So… you more experienced airgun shooters, help me understand ballistics of air guns.
Ive attached a photo of some of the groups shot. Generally, I get about .5 inch change from 10m to 15y. About 1” from 15y to 20y.
The center green dot was my Weihrauch at 10m and nest green dot lower right was at 15yards. My TX200 zero groups are further down and right. With this info, what distance should I zero my rifles for field target matches and hunting. I suspect I will not be engaging anything past 50yards.
Shooting them today I discovered something very different from my experience shooting center-fier and rimfire guns.
The air gun were all zero at 10 meters initially. My HW35 is a 7.5 joule version and I finally got a scope on it that works. My AA200 had no issues and dialed in just fine. The 177 pellets was a mix of pellets I had from when I first obtained the Weihrauch in Germany. The gun and pellets is around 40 years old. Theses pellets are VEB, HN, and RWS. The .22 cal are all newly delivered HN from PA. I brought two different weight and different size. I have not chronograph them for velocity yet.
The other distance I shot my rifles at were 15 yards and 20 yards (max fir my yard). The interesting thing I discovered is the point of impact goes higher as I get further. This is with both the Weihrauch and AirArms. Didn’t have time or energy to mess with my RWS
So… you more experienced airgun shooters, help me understand ballistics of air guns.
Ive attached a photo of some of the groups shot. Generally, I get about .5 inch change from 10m to 15y. About 1” from 15y to 20y.
The center green dot was my Weihrauch at 10m and nest green dot lower right was at 15yards. My TX200 zero groups are further down and right. With this info, what distance should I zero my rifles for field target matches and hunting. I suspect I will not be engaging anything past 50yards.
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All my guns for Field work (target and hunting) are apex zero. Short of apex, hold over. Past apex, hold over. Never have to hold under. Much easier to use.
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As suggested in the earlier posts, zero your gun around the 25-30 yard mark. Somewhere around these yardages would be the apex of your pellet flight. see diagram below. Note that the POI (black line) is for a 25 yard zero.
Currently your guns were zeroed for 10 m (I assumed to shoot 10 m indoors?). The POI at 15 and 20 yards are consistent with a 10 m Zero. If you look at the above diagram. The red line is the approximate trajectory of your pellet. If you zero at 10m, following the red line your POI be high at 15, higher still at 20...you'll be highest around 25-30 yard....then your POI will start coming down.
Hope that helps. When I started shooting air rifle, it was confusing me at the beginning too.
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Scope height vs bore. Download a free "legacy" copy of Chairgun and answer all your questions.
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This is the kind of feedback I need… will need to to my club’s rang and figure out my apex and validate with shots fire… thanks
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Thank you JP for this very informative reply… I am currently shooting in my backyard… and the wife’s flower beds limited me to max range of 20 yards… I started at 10 meter as the initial distance to zero only because of the rifle targets I had on hand to use as metric for accuracy…
… shooting at my club’s airgun range will validate my zeros at actual distances shot… will get better ballistics tables once I get the needed programs/apps and data from my chronograph…
Too bad you no longer shoot at TRR
Best Regards,
Bob
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I know Jim Benson is still around and shooting Bench rest. He goes to TRRC on a regular basis. I would snag him for some help.
He was the one who originally got me hooked on FT. And he helped me a lot regarding air rifles. I know some of the shooting benches you'll probably be shooting on were built by me and Jim Benson.
If the cuts are rough and not straight...it's probably mine.
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I shoot the N50 matches with him on the SB range… he uses a fancy pistol launching slugs… I got a rest from him learning lots from the fellas there…
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Just to widen the rabbit hole a little more, here's some tidbits that may help (or hurt).
Your close yardages (10 yards to apex) will be affected by the scope height. The higher the scope height, the bigger the POI difference between 10 yards and apex.
The far yardages (apex to 55 yards) will be affected by the BC of the pellet. A 20 fpe gun will have less drop at 55 yards compared to a 6 fpe gun.
So a fast way to set up a scope for click or hold overs is to zero near the apex (20, 25 or 30 yards, depending on the velocity of the pellet). Then shoot a group at 10 yards and a group at 50 or 55 yards. If calculating hold over, you can put your cross hair on the point of aim for the near and far targets and see where the group is on the reticle. That's your hold over for that yardage. For clicking, you would need to click until the point of impact matches the point of aim, and that is your clicks for that yardage.
Then you can go into chairgun and input your info. Put in the velocity and weight of the pellet and the approximate scope height. Then adjust the scope height setting in chairgun until the 10 yard clicks or hold over matches your tested value. Then adjust the BC to do the same for the 50 or 55 yard values. You will probably need to go back and forth a couple of times to get both values right. Then you will have a pretty good idea about all of the other yardages.
In my experience, this is the second best way to get your yardage values. The best way is to put a target out at each yard from 10 to 20, then every 2 or 3 yards out to 55. But sometimes you don't have that kind of time.
Your close yardages (10 yards to apex) will be affected by the scope height. The higher the scope height, the bigger the POI difference between 10 yards and apex.
The far yardages (apex to 55 yards) will be affected by the BC of the pellet. A 20 fpe gun will have less drop at 55 yards compared to a 6 fpe gun.
So a fast way to set up a scope for click or hold overs is to zero near the apex (20, 25 or 30 yards, depending on the velocity of the pellet). Then shoot a group at 10 yards and a group at 50 or 55 yards. If calculating hold over, you can put your cross hair on the point of aim for the near and far targets and see where the group is on the reticle. That's your hold over for that yardage. For clicking, you would need to click until the point of impact matches the point of aim, and that is your clicks for that yardage.
Then you can go into chairgun and input your info. Put in the velocity and weight of the pellet and the approximate scope height. Then adjust the scope height setting in chairgun until the 10 yard clicks or hold over matches your tested value. Then adjust the BC to do the same for the 50 or 55 yard values. You will probably need to go back and forth a couple of times to get both values right. Then you will have a pretty good idea about all of the other yardages.
In my experience, this is the second best way to get your yardage values. The best way is to put a target out at each yard from 10 to 20, then every 2 or 3 yards out to 55. But sometimes you don't have that kind of time.
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This is specifically for Field Target
I do a Hybrid system getting my clicks or Hold over. It's a cross between what Luis Barreiros and what Scotton (post #14) use.
The first thing I do is to calibrate my scope so that the 10-55 yards on my scope wheel is accurate according to my yardage tape, or a very accurate laser range finder (most range finders are +, - 1 yard, these are not accurate enough.+,-0.5 yards would be better)
I know Chairgun can be very accurate...in the end, it's just a prediction (based on accurately measured? data that you enter into the program). That's why I give actual POI at the range a bit more weight instead of Chairgun.
If I have time, I shoot at these critical yardages 10 yards, 12, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50 and 55 to get my POI.
Short Cut version
Sometimes I don't have time to shoot all eleven different distances, I'll shoot exactly at 10, 55 and approximately at 15, 30 and 40 yards. Now here's the secret...PLOT your POI and the distance according to your scope on a graph (see 9:39 of the 2nd video, note in reality the graph/pellet trajectory do not have sharp angles...it's usually a smooth curve).
Five data points and you can have a fairly accurate dope sheet by extrapolation from the graph (critical if you are clicking to shoot small holes in Field Target, ...hold over in hunting...not so much). Note the beauty of this version...you don't need to shoot at precise yardages if your scope was calibrated correctly. For example shoot at 30.5 yards note the POI and plot it at 30.5 yards. Sometimes I'll shoot at other yardages just to verify accuracy of the graph/dope. For example shoot at 22 yards and see if the dope was accurate.
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I use a homemade target with cardboard backer and place five circle on the same level line> now shoot the same bullseye at different ranges>there you can see the different points of impact at different ranges>
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First get on paper shooting at 10 yards so you can get close. Ideally your POI will be 1.5 to 2” low from your future zero point so - Shoot your gun every yard from 10 yards out - somewhere around 20-25 yards your arc / trajectory will flatten out for at least 15-25 yards depending on pellet weight and speed. Go back to the start of your flat/leveling point near 20-25 yards and zero there. Then go out to 35 yards and shoot every yard out to 55 yards to create a dope chart for holdovers- try to avoid creating hold unders. Just my thoughts.
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To be clear, I confirm every yardage by shooting. I was just giving the quick and easy way as an alternative. It's more suited to holding over, I've found that if trying to "calculate" clicks you will have some trouble spots. For me, Chairgun (and Strelok) tend to mess up the 43, 45 and 47 yard clicks as well as some of the shorter stuff, like 13, 14, 15. Not a huge amount, but one or two clicks off on a 1/2" KZ at 13 yards can be a little disastrous. For clicking, you have to put shots on paper.
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