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Rant from Target Shooters

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Yeah, that took a turn pretty quick.

To be concise, I believe the OP was unnecessarily confrontational and belligerent toward a quality provider of air gun supplies that has proven itself a friend to the air gun community here in the US and elsewhere. I recognize that it is a tradition not just in the US but in Europe as well for the wealthy to demonstrate community leadership and largess by funding worthy cultural projects, whether in Art or Sport. The greatest museums, theaters, stadiums, parks, sculptures... on and on the list goes of wonderful collections of artists and their creations that had wealthy patrons providing the foundations for these things. I have no qualms about the BR enthusiasts following a similar path in trying to gain recognition as one pinnacle of air gun excellence and so find financial backing to raise the status of the sport in the wider world. But that does not happen by sticking your finger in the face of a potential patron and publicly trying to shame them into "taking up the burden of wealth by laying the foundation for charity"! If BR doesn't yet resonate with PA then just keep inviting their people to events and thanking them for any effort they make in support of BR.

I shoot because I love the sport in all its aspects, plain and simple. I patronize PA, among several vendors, because they treat me well, carry quality goods at reasonable prices, and don't offend me with senseless or degrading demands regarding my beliefs, life choices, or spending habits. I cannot say the same for so many leading manufacturers and service providers in today's world. Let's lift up the good guys, even when our particular interests don't seem to find traction with them... for now.
 
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I need to clarify something here. Pyramyds' policy for helping small clubs like Salem with donations for major matches has changed. Up until last year we could count on them for a decent break barrel rifle and more promotional items than we knew what to do with. We give away 100% of all donations from retailers, manufacturers, private individuals and suppliers by random drawing of competitors names on a first drawn, first choice basis. Pyramyds' break barrel has always been one of our top prizes and one of the first items chosen off the prize table. 
To all the people that think that I am looking for something unprecedented or undeserved, you are wrong. Pyramyd has been generous in the past in its support for our major events, and other entities still are. I'm not sure what prompted their change in policy, but I believe they are doing air rifle competitive shooting sports a disservice by ignoring one sport while supporting others.

Todd Banks
Pres.- Salem Pistol and Rifle Club
 
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"JimNM"+1 to Ironlion's comment. Calling for a boycott of a vendor because the free stuff that you demanded and then received does not live up to your expectation and standards is pure welfare mentality.

Put both hands out in front of your body. Want into one and spit on the other. Tell me which one fills up first.

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Might as well get this one in here as it is the perfect place. So about a month ago I bought four tins of pellets from PA. I specified the head sizes on all the pellets. The cheapest tin was the JSB 15.89gr pellets so that one was free. All was good with the world. Then I got the order and all was still good but they shipped the wrong size on the JSBs. Now remember that that tin was the free tin. Me, well I'm pretty dang piqued. So I log on and write a complaint. Didn't get a response. A week or so later I get an EMail, "How did we do?". So I replied and told them I was going to take my "bidness" somewhere else because they ignored the original complaint. Well a day or two later I get a message. "Keep the pellets on us, we will ship the ones you ordered when they get in. They are back ordered." So I guess folks can say whatever they want but PA seems to be trying to keep things straight with their customers and that counts for a lot.
 
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Guys just my 2c ..I know Ken ( salticon) and believe me when I say he is a Stand up guy All the way !!! I read his post and never saw a call for a boycott by all shooters !! he just expressed his opinion and frustration and is voicing it . Its what forums are all about .
I've had nothing but good luck with PA personally . But asking the largest Airgun retailer in the country for possible sponsorship and not even getting a reply kinda sucks . 
Some of the absolute coolest and most helpful guys I've met in the sport are serious benchrest guys ( Ken 100% included ) 
Read the post for what it is . Ken and several other highly skilled shooters are competing in an international competition and should be on the receiving end of our best wishes .
Why PA doesn't bother even returning calls to them , or show any interest in sponsoring them is anybody's guess . 
Its a pretty Class Act thing of the other sponsors to donate items for them tho .....Like I say , just my 2c . 
 
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Post #200403 I lost two from this thread, he the only other one who was a dick. (negative accuracy) Pathetic

I just have to laugh. To the self important person who gave me this negative accuracy report. That is awesome. I really don't care about it. But you show your true colors with that petty nonsense and colorful language. Maybe thats why companies don't donate. One part of me wants to go tit for tat and give you a negative report but since you already lost two I will be an adult and let it go. 
 
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@Renegade, thanks for that informative and level-headed post regarding PA's change in charitable support. That's information this thread didn't have until you provided it.

I wonder if PA's decision to change its support practices is a result of the maturation of air gunning as a sport here in the US. As we all know, the Brits and the Euro shooters have a long, long history with air gunning... long enough that the sport has a firm hold in every corner of their cultures. It seems to me that something similar is just now taking hold in the US over, say, the last 3 decades or so. Oh, sure, everybody and his red-headed cousin had a BB gun as a kid - or at least had access to one through family or friends - but I don't recall any awareness of adult air gun sporting until sometime in the mid-80's. Prior to that the "adult" version of shooting sports was all powder-burners due to the 2nd Amendment culture that flourished here in the US for so long. Only when the gun-grabbers made inroads using the trope of "gun violence", with the result that gun ownership and use became increasingly distasteful to the American Left, did the need for and availability of powerful air guns make an impact on the Nation's consciousness.

That awareness is growing, though, and with it an appetite for affordable equipment and appropriate locations for shooting. I still firmly believe that PA is simply following the flow of the market when they realign their support toward the most popular forms of air gunning. I can see why BR shooters want to have well-known suppliers like PA backing their sport with increased levels of funding and resources and it is my belief that excoriating PA for not choosing to do so at this time is counterproductive to the BR shooters' goals. Either PA will see in time that increasing BR support is a wise use of limited charitable resources or it won't. Presenting them with a smiling face and gracious attitude is my strong recommendation to the BR community.
 
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To the extent that anyone may care for my opinion I must say that I am unmoved by the "rant". PA has given me excellent pricing and customer service thus far -better than one of their competitors favorably mentioned above as a supporter of bench rest. As long as their pricing and service meet enough customers' needs, PA will do just fine. 

My apologies to anyone who's offended by my perception here (especially the OP) but personally, I find the ranting a bit silly. In the varied competitive fields I've been involved with over the years, I have never felt a sense of entitlement in the search for event sponsorships or animosity toward those who chose not to sponsor. 

Those who sponsor events are typically NOT doing so out of an altruistic sense obligation to their fellow man. Rather, sponsorships are marketing, pure and simple, and PA apparently chooses to spend their marketing budget dollars in a manner other than sponsorships. This does not make them greedy heartless bastards, it just means that their business model differs from some others'. 

Those are my two cents and I'm stepping off of my soap box now, except to reiterate my apologies to anyone offended by my frankness or thoughts offered. 



 
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"Deja"Im going to have to side on the ironlion fence here, im sure pa has to draw a line somewhere. I would kill for such a niche store to be available in euro land. Then demanding that they need to sponsor every 2 bit event in the community is bad taste. 


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i would not say the International World Cup for Airgun and Rimfire is a "2 bit" event, and nothing was "demanded" of them.....gezzzz. guys read the words.... 
 
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I find that PA has been very supportive in my dealings with them. Never a problem. Doesn't mean I expect them to sponsor other events. I will be attending my 3rd Pyramyd Air Cup match August 25-27 in New Philadelphia, Ohio. Great event. Lots of prizes and fun. Great Banquet. Lots of high end shooters competing. Several events to enter but no BR. Maybe some day but I think they have their hands full with all of the FT and other games they hold. Just my opinion. 
 
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1. Oldspook: Strever wasn't calling anyone names. He is a very serious and excellent shooter - in fact a US record holder. And he's an extremely friendly and generous guy who has helped me and many others learn bench rest shooting. I understand the temptation to flame on the web, but he's a bad target.

2. Salticon I understand your upset with PA's seeming stinginess. But don't forget they are a discount house and their profit margins aren't very big. Also they don't sell benchrest gear, so there's not much in it for them. Benchrest is a tiny fraction of the total airgun business, so I'm told.

3. My gripe along these lines is different. It is a big hassle and quite difficult to find pellets that shoot accurately enough to be competitive in benchrest. Shooters who sort pellets (weigh, air-gauge) tell me there are big variations within each tin, and often bigger variation between tins. I wish JSB (or another mfg) would up their manufacturing tolerances and sell "premium" target pellets. Overkill for hunting but useful for target shooters. Charge double or 3x, but just make them super consistent (and possibly different head sizes).

Kim
 
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"Kim"1. Oldspook: Strever wasn't calling anyone names. He is a very serious and excellent shooter - in fact a US record holder. And he's an extremely friendly and generous guy who has helped me and many others learn bench rest shooting. I understand the temptation to flame on the web, but he's a bad target.

Kim



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I didn't flame anyone. You should let Strever speak for himself. 

Edit: And Mr. Strever has spoken for himself privately. Very nice gentleman. I think I read an intention in his post which just was not there.

There was one other fairly arrogant comment in this thread about those who don't have the desire or perhaps just don't have the where with all to expend the kind of resources that such shooting entails. I did not point it out. I don't think I'll bother at this point. Lots of kerfluffel over some misunderstood words. Probably more or less just not worth wrestling over.

That said, There are a lot of us plinkers who don't know what "competitive spirit" is called out here. We take our shooting very, very seriously, because when we miss an animal suffers.

So set up a pateron account, lads (not intended to you Kim) and let the community support you. 
 
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I'll say one good thing for PA. I've never got a damaged tin of pellets from them. I wish other business's would package their pellets half as good as PA.

Cause it really sucks to get a shipment of pellets in and it's leaking pellets before you open it?
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"Salticon"Jimmy, was those pellets from overseas?? If so.. customs probably dumped them... their brutal!
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Nah, I don't want to mention any names on here, but they came from the west coast. I had bought a whole sleeve thinking they would at least be shrink wrapped? Not my luck, the seller put tins in that weren't in a sleeve or shrink wrapped. Had 4 tins of pellets that completely emptied out of 10 tins? I messaged the seller hoping he would at least send me a couple of free tins for the mess and the sorting of damaged pellets that had to be done. Alas, no free tins as of yet and that was along time ago?
I also, have got damaged tins from another big name on the west coast that were damaged due to poor packaging? And even got a damaged sleeve from my buddy in Colorado. He sent me a couple free tins to make it right.
Haven't had any damage from PA, Jim at Precision, or Bori when he was at Topgun.
 
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AOA, Trenier Outdoors, Talon Tunes, and Steelplinkers were kind enough to provide prizes at our BR matches in Dade City. I never expected anything big, but these guys went out of their way. I hope y'all out there will spend some of your hard-earned money with them. These are quality suppliers. I'm more disappointed in the fact that the turnout could have been much better. Many folks don't like to travel more than just a few miles while others go way out of their way to participate. Yes, airgunners are few and far between, but I enjoy the competition and camaraderie with people that have the same interests. The prizes are just the icing on the cake.
 
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