Raptor review/ongoing thoughts

[Ranchibi]

Scott, thank you for that transfer port info! Frank, like you, I got my Raptor out of tune while tuning with slugs. With help from Travis with a baseline spring setting I had to slowly ever so slowly adjust the striker in small increments until..voila..the sound the Raptor makes when the spring and striker are in harmony (right word?) at the desired speed with small spring adjustments in between. I listened to the video Shooter1721 did with the .30 to help gauge the sound I remember hearing with mine when first received. I am wondering, these smaller calibers being built on the .30 platform, in .30 the adjustments wouldn’t need be so incremental as the much larger heavier caliber projectiles need would need...with ours the plenum, porting is the same size I would think as caliber switches are available? As jmartinez noted, the Ninja regs might be set at a higher PSI than needed hence we are getting some fps spreads in velocity on occasion but less after settling in. I do think as you said earlier, once the adjustable regulators are installed, using this to change tunes would be the best way as the striker and hammer spring will already be efficiently mated. Can’t wait for the in-house regs! LOL! I know how efficient these balanced valves can be as I had mine shooting 18gr @ 907fps average for 30 shots and the gauges needle barely moved off the 4000psi fill...just sipping air. 

 

[Franklink]

Most recent developments: 

This is a full mag (12 shots) @ 55 yards. I pulled the high right shot but the two low shots were entirely the gun. This has been a prevalent problem. I was actually testing my theory that the reg is the problem by timing my shots with a stopwatch. I gave it 25 seconds between each shot, but still had the low ones. 

My other thought is that the low shots might be due to sear drag. The gun sounds slightly different when the pellets impact low. 

I've thus far tried three different locations with the barrel indexing. None have gotten rid of the low shots but I don't think it's a barrel issue causing the low ones. I do think that this current barrel position seems to throw the majority of the pellets into a tighter group than the previous two positions. 

Also, these pellets were cleaned and lubed with Slick50. 

I also found out that the threads cut into the barrel are also 1/2-20. So I was able to test without the shroud, using a different moderator. The thought here was to rule out the shroud/moderator as the cause of low impacting shots (clipping or barrel tension issues?). The result: A different poi but otherwise very similar groups, 8-10 good, accurate shots with 2-3 low impacting shots in every 10-12 shots. So, the barrel to breech situation is rigid enough to allow accuracy without the shroud, but I don't know that I'd trust it that way to go into and out of a case without bumping the poi. 

Also, with the as-intended shroud and moderator in place, the gun has been holding it's poi from day to day. Always a good thing to be able to put a gun away and come back to it a few days later and have the pellet go where it should. 

Yesterday the gun quit cocking. It had been getting progressively more difficult to cock, requiring an extra little bit of effort right at the end of the cocking lever to get the sear to engage. I had adjusted the trigger to lighten it as it was probably in the 2# area when I got it. As previously stated, I had it adjusted down to somewhere around 1/2-1 pound. When this became a problem I assumed I had adjusted it to the point that it couldn't engage the sear. But, after talking to Travis today, it appears that a screw worked it's way out of one of the trigger levers. 

The Allen key is pointing to the missing screw here. That lever sits under the safety and without the screw, cannot push the sear high enough to engage with the striker. 

(Much thanks to AzRover with trying to diagnose the problem here.)

So, Travis called today and informed me that he's got a new complete trigger group in the mail, heading my way. I've definitely had some troubles with my Raptor but sure can't fault JSARs customer service and product support in any way. 

The 9/12 in the above group that are in that tight little group really get me excited. Hoping that the new trigger group, and eventually the adjustable regulator, will get rid of the low poi shots. 

 

[JSAR2]

https://vimeo.com/380170721

 

[knifemaker]

My Mini Raptor was Travis's prototype, and in so being, is equipped with the in house built prototype adjustable reg.

I am happy to report that its refresh rate is near instant! No long wait what so ever between shots. :<)



I am thinking the production version should be very similar in performance.



Knife.

 

[orion]

https://vimeo.com/380170721

new trigger looks awesome!

 

[Franklink]

1st gen trigger in action:

https://youtu.be/UpfUdZ8o5wI

 

[Franklink]

New scope rings and stock adjustments:

The initial plan was to use these silver cerakoted offset rings.

WIth the silver color and the cutouts, they just seemed like they'd be a good match for the rifle. The problem was that the offsets were simply too great for the scope's eye relief. And i couldnt turn them around with getting into the gears for the sidewheel attachment. Was kinda bummed that they wouldn't work, but told myself the color wasn't quite a match anyway (attempt to make myself feel better about it).

So, up til tonight I was using some REALLY cheap mounts that I had retired into a junk box some time ago. I had them both placed in front of the turret-less than ideal.

I ordered in some new UTG mounts. I've had good results using the lever lock type and decided to go with them again. I chose high mounts because I wanted to make single-loading easier and allow plenty of clearance for the magazine. 

Mounting this scope was a little bit of a pain, mostly because of the 3d printed contraption I use to convert the rear ao swfa 20x to a sidewheel set-up. That device takes up a fair amount of the scope tube, right in front of the rear bell. I also needed to make sure the lever lock didnt stick into the breech cut-out. There isn't enough wheel clearance on the other side to put the levers on that side, and even if there was, I wouldn't want to take the wheel off in order to release the levers on the scope mount.

So, I got the scope mounted in a way I like and that didn't cause problems with the 3d printed sidewheel, or the breech cut-out for loading pellets. But it kicked the scope back about an inch. That lead me to the stock adjustments while trying to get the eye relief right. 

I decided to take some pics of the full range of adjustment on the butt stock, while I had the screws out and was playing with it. LOTS of range. 

The ruler is lined up with the junction of the gun's tube, and the butt stock tube. The angle makes it look slightly off in the pics but it's pretty close to the same place in each of them. 

All that range would fit a wide range of shooter preference and size, from 6'5" 280# MAN (not me), to my six year old son, or a lady shooter in the middle. 

The cheekrest is high here just to give enough room to access the screws underneath. I can't even imagine how high the scope rings would need to be to need that much vertical adjustment on the cheek piece. Even with these really high rings, I'm only needing about 1/8inch up from its lowest setting for things to feel right. 

While I was at it I decided to see what the shoulder pad adjustment looks like.

I adjusted it down a little. Butt "pad" is just a hard hollow plastic. There's no way to grind out the section between the holes for a more curved buttpad. 

I do see some potential for FT customization here. It would not be too hard to retrofit one of the 3d printed or machined aluminum butthooks onto the baseplate. 

I'm also seeing that the rear-ward weight I was looking to add could be placed inside the current hollow butt pad, or inside the buttstock tube. Hmmmm ideas ideas. 

Yeah, there are some missing components in these pics (pic rail, trigger, grip). I've got it apart while waiting for the new trigger group. USPS is saying Saturday.

 

[Franklink]

Trigger:

The new trigger group arrived with enough daylight left for me to get the gun together and shoot for 4 or 5 hours. I'd guess I shot it a couple hundred times. 

First impressions from those couple hundred shots, 1000x better trigger than the first gen trigger. I'd like to qualify that statement a bit though. My 1st gen trigger never seemed quite right, so I'm not sure my experience with it was typical. It was good, but not great. That is further evidenced by the fact that it quit cocking. I'd guess there are many first gens out there without the problems mine had.

Improvements felt on the very first shot:

• cocking is now much smoother
• the sear engages much more solidly now
• the trigger is much lighter, overall
• BREAKS MUCH MORE CLEANLY

And that was all without any sort of adjustments, just bolted it on and got to shooting.

The only place I can see myself possibly wanting to adjust it would be to lighten up that first stage just a hair. Although, with how much better my shooting session went today, I may just leave it as-is.

Triggers are subjective and everybody has their own opinion about them. Because so much of it is "feel," it's hard to put in words. I personally like one that breaks consistently, is not much heavier than a pound at the most, and doesn't feel like it's resisting that break. I can deal with a pretty junky trigger if it's got those couple things going for it. The prior Raptor trigger felt like it was trying not to go off, even when set lightly. It almost had that feel of metal stretching or bending or resisting, almost sticky. This new one feels like a trigger should, like it was designed to break nicely and consistently. 

For comparison, it's better than my Veteran trigger. Although Vet trigger is still as-is, I've never tried to adjust or tweak it. 

I judge all my triggers off the best one I own, the one on my USFT. Are my first impressions making me think it is as good as the USFT trigger?So far, Id say it's pretty close.

For further comparison, this new 2nd gen Raptor trigger is pretty close in "feel" to the one on my FWB 300s Mini. 

If you cant tell, I'm liking it. 

 

[Franklink]

Chronograph: 

I shot a couple series of shots through the chrono, nothing near a full string though. Both partial strings were taken with the pressure in the gun near the middle (not at the top, 4350, or the 2000psi reg pressure). 

1st string was shot with JSB 15.89

• Lo-887.5
• Hi-907.6
• Av 889.7
• ES 20.1
• SD 5.56

That is the most consistent shot string I've been able to get the regulator to shoot. That puts energy around 29fpe.

2nd string was also shot with JSB 15.89.

• Lo-831.7
• Hi-866
• Ave -850
• ES-34.34
• SD-9.11

This is what I'm more used to seeing, a couple outliers, usually low FPS. In this string the 835 and the 831.7 are the low ones. The 850 average would put the gun doing about 25fpe.

Travis and I discussed this today, as we have before, and from what I've gleaned from him, and from my personal playing with the hammer spring and striker, the gun really needs a lower reg pressure for the power levels that I'm interested in. He thinks about 1500psi should work. The gun, in it's current state, just seems to shoot more consistently (in fps) at higher power levels than I'm interested in. That should be music to the ears of the vast majority of airgunners. But for me and my happy place of 20-30fpe, I really need that adjustable regulator. 

For reference, the 34fps spread is doable in Field Target. If I stretch my main gun, I can live with that. I do have to account for it by giving the gun an extra click or two on the really far ones if I am shooting past the pressure where I normally stop. That is a non-regulated gun. So, my preference would definitely be to get an ES like the first string, but at a FT legal power level of 20fpe. 

 

[Franklink]

New best group: 

Switched pellets from the 15.89 to the 13.73 JSB.
New trigger.
Changed the power output.

I dunno what made the difference, but I was VERY happy with how this group turned out.

My scribble says that I'm shooting the 13.73 at about 25fpe. 21 shots in this group. Taken at 55 yards. Why 21 shots? cuz that's how many were left in the tin that I finished off. I'd have probably kept going if I had more pellets sitting there on my bench.

It's not quite under a nickel, but pretty dang close. I know, I know, the dime is the standard, but if a guy shoots a 21 shot group does that make a nickel acceptable?

 

[Franklink]

Continued FT testing: 

After the above group, I decided I better shoot an IFP target with the 13.73grain pellets. 

So, remember that this is at 30 yards, from any legal FT position. I usually shoot Open class so I shot this from a bum bag and shooting harness. This was shot outside, as was the 21 shot group above.

Also remember that my best IFP score is a 43/50 (shot that one yesterday with the USFT, I had been stuck at 42/50 for a LONG time). That 43 was shot with a purpose-built FT gun that costs about another grand than what the Raptor costs. That gun has a knee riser and a thigh rest and I've shot thousands of pellets through it. I truly know that gun and has been adjusted to fit me like a glove. 

This IFP card was shot, obviously, with the Raptor. This is only the second IFP card I have shot with it. I'm using an AR front grip as a knee riser. There is no thigh rest. It as a trigger that is completely new to me, as of today. With all of that, I shot a 40/50. I also was asked to try an energy drink by my wife this afternoon, an hour or two before I shot this card. I felt like I was shaking like a leaf. A 40/50 is a decent score for me to shoot with my USFT, on a good day.

Potential? Oh hell yes!

I've got an idea that I hope will allow me to retrofit a thigh rest. I'm also still pretty excited to get my hands on that adjustable regulator to get more consistent shots at 20fpe. 

Cannot wait to get this gun sub 20fpe and shoot it at a match.

 

[Franklink]

Current thought on the Raptor: 

Compared to where I've been, and especially where I was at when the gun quit cocking, I'm pretty freaking excited about the Raptor again. Like I said above, I'm not sure which of the changes made it shoot so much better, but something did. I'm kinda leaning to thinking it just prefers the JSB 13.73 over the 15.89 pellets. 

After shooting 3 of the IFP cards with the USFT yesterday, as well as spending some time shooting the Veteran yesterday, the impression I got from the Raptor session today is that it shoots fast. I'm not talking fps fast, but lock-time fast. I realize lock time is a questionable term when talking about airguns, but I'm referring to how quickly the pellet is gone, from the time of pulling the trigger to the exit of the pellet out the barrel. I made some shots with poor follow through on that IFP with the Raptor that I would not have made with the USFT. With my caffeinated jittery self, I realized I was having to snap the shots off as I swung through the middle of the targets, never good. But, the extremely fast lock time of the Raptor allowed those shots to still go where I wanted them too. A VERY desirable attribute for a gun, whether it's used for target practice, competition, or hunting. 

After the performance the gun put on today, I'm pretty optimistic about this whole Raptor business.

 

[Franklink]

Pesting:

Decided to try for a pest or two this afternoon. I found a ground squirrel sunning himself at 51 yards. Dropped him. Also got two starlings at about 40 and 45 yards. I didn't range them cuz they usually will fly if you're not on the ball. I took a few clicks off from the 51 yard squirrel shot for the first starling, and a few more for the second. Dropped them both so the guessed ranging was pretty close. 

First and only shots I've taken at critters with it, 3 for 3 ain't bad. 

 

[Franklink]

Long range/low power:

I was able to get out and try the gun at long range today. Once I got my targets set up and ranged from my little bench/table, I had 102 yards. 

There was more wind than the forecast called for. Id guess 8-10mph, peaking out around 12-14. I taped my targets to a cardboard box that I had thrown a chunk of firewood in to keep it from blowing. It was windy enough that I could see the box moving slightly with the breeze.

Wind was quartering in, mostly from 1 o clock but would shift back and forth from 11 o clock. 

This was the best group of the day and required 3-4 inches of hold off and 2-3 inches of vertical adjustment for the incoming wind. 

Ten shots, about 2.25inches or 9 shots in 1.75 inches if I throw out the one in the black. 

Not the greatest long range shooting, but for light pellets at only 24 fpe at 100 yards in really shifty winds, I felt pretty good about it. 

My time with the gun so far has me thinking that it'll shoot a lot tighter 100 yard group, just would need a day with no wind, or more consistent wind than I was fighting today. 

I tried to crank up the power and even switched over to the 15.89 gr JSB but couldn't shoot a better group than this one. 

Barrel seems to really prefer the 13.73 over the 15.89. 

 

[Franklink]

Current mindset:

I guess I need to decide for sure how I want to set this gun up.

I like the idea of a long range critter killer, but I think im going to need to step up to .22 if I go that route. I shoot a lot of prairie dogs in the warmer months and it'd be used pretty heavily for that. The gun's got plenty of power on tap, but today's shooting in the wind showed me that I'll need heavier pellets to be able to consistently hit pdogs at the long ranges on windy days.

If I stick with .20, I have a dilemma of pellet weight. NOE mentioned in a few places that they'd like to eventually get to making slugs in .20, so that could turn out to be an option. The idea of a slug .20 gets me excited too. I've also considered putting some effort into testing out Motorhead's idea of swaging .22 pellets down into .20. I guess JSB 18.1s or maybe my cast 19.6gr NOE pellets would be the prime candidates there. My concern is getting into such a long projectile that the 17.7" LW twist rate can't handle it. Although, a semi-bullet, weighing 18-19grains and only being .20 would sure seem to have an awfully flat trajectory at around 36-38fpe. 

On the flip side, I truly enjoy field target, the shooting in matches, the working up a gun, and the practicing. The current .20 barrel suggests that it'll be plenty accurate for such < 20 fpe uses. 

Not sure which way to jump, will have to think on it more. The decision wil probably be made for me by how the adjustable reg performs. FT needs a lot greater level of precision than shooting at pdogs. If the reg does the trick, I may have a sub 20 fpe FT Raptor.

Finally, barrel and power swaps are pretty quick with this gun. Would be pretty cool to have the tunes all figured out and be able to swap it to a long range pdog Terminator (or perhaps an EBR gun) in the warm months, and a .20 FT gun for the colder months when the pdogs are hibernating. 

 

[L.Leon]

The ES spread on both those strings seems high. Also, the declining average velocity there is a 40 FPS difference between the strings. That said, you have been showing good accuracy despite the chrony numbers.

 

[Franklink]

The ES spread on both those strings seems high. Also, the declining average velocity there is a 40 FPS difference between the strings. That said, you have been showing good accuracy despite the chrony numbers.

40fps difference between the strings because I adjusted the power, 29fpe vs 25fpe.

I agree that the ES is a problem. Reg pressure is too high for the fpe that I want. It's been interesting to see the ES get larger with lower power. Hoping that the forthcoming adjustable reg solves the ES problems. 

 

[L.Leon]

@franklink, I bet when you get your adjustable regulator all your numbers will be tighter. Thanks for posting up your impressions and experience with the Raptor.

 

[Dairyboy]

Yeah it's your reg pressure causing the wide ES. It's bouncing around showing the difference in hammer strike. Once you get that adjustable reg it should be solid!

 

[knifemaker]

I find myself wondering how good the new reg will be. Ray at Ninja speaks highly of it. and the prototype, although slightly changed by Ninja is doing a fine job on mine.

For those that don't know, My adjustable reg is a prototype made by Travis at JSAR. I think he did a wonderful job with it. I only hope the new reg can match its performance. ;<)

Knife