Tuning RAW HM1000x - Bottle O-Ring Leakage

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SpiralGroove

SpiralGroove

Member
Oct 20, 2020
1,671
2,026
Washington, United States
Hey Guys,

Because I've been working on my "New Version" of the HM1000x a lot since it's purchase in October, I've needed to remove the bottle many time disregarding fill pressures up to 230 bar. It seems bottle removal is pretty hard on the o-ring, creating slow leaks.

Does this sound familiar to other RAW owners ?

Or and I simply doing something wrong😦?

I think I'll re-inspect this area for burrs.

_____________________________________________

Also, I know when I change the regulator set-points, discharges from the plenum have been hard on o-rings. I have simply unscrewed the Bottom Blanking Plug😕. I think in the future, I will shoot one last pellet from the gun to clear the plenum, instead of putting unnecessary wear on the BBP o-ring.

Normally I wouldn't worry too much about the O-rings, but they're not readily available in the US unless we pay pretty hefty fees/shipping from RAW/AF.

With my other PCP's, I can buy 100 at a time from Amazon for $10.00 instead of (5) for $8 + $4 shipping or $12 for only 5 o-rings! ..... crazy difference😬.
 
NOW YOU TELL ME AFTER 30 YEARS!

SWITCHED FROM MOLYCOTE-33.
Click to expand...

Ha, ha, I didn’t know you 30 years ago.😁

I have no explanation why putting lube on the bottle o ring actually makes it worse, but front experience it definitely does. Also, there is a knack to depressurising the o ring prior to fully removing the buddy bottle. 


one of the guys on the R7OC used to sell a handy little tool that you loaded up with bottle o rings, this screwed onto the bottle installing the o ring without damaging it. 



Under no circumstances should you put lube on the bottle thread, it causes it to gall up and eventually seize completely. For some reason RAW regs/ bottle valves are more prone to this than Theobens.



Bb
 
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Bb

Under no circumstances should you put lube on the bottle thread, it causes it to gall up and eventually seize completely. For some reason RAW regs/ bottle valves are more prone to this than Theobens.
Click to expand...

Depends on the lube, but generally this is true, best I can understand. The real culprit is silicone, which seems to be the universal lube for many air gunners. Silicone is good for many low temp/low pressure applications, such as an O ring in a static application. In a high temp environment, it can cause seizing, and should be avoided in all such metal-on-metal connections. 
 
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NOW YOU TELL ME AFTER 30 YEARS!

SWITCHED FROM MOLYCOTE-33.
Click to expand...

Ha, ha, I didn’t know you 30 years ago.
1f601.svg


I have no explanation why putting lube on the bottle o ring actually makes it worse, but front experience it definitely does. Also, there is a knack to depressurising the o ring prior to fully removing the buddy bottle. 


one of the guys on the R7OC used to sell a handy little tool that you loaded up with bottle o rings, this screwed onto the bottle installing the o ring without damaging it. 



Under no circumstances should you put lube on the bottle thread, it causes it to gall up and eventually seize completely. For some reason RAW regs/ bottle valves are more prone to this than Theobens.



Bb
Click to expand...

Burping the gun it's already a given of course you shread the o-ring if you don't burp the gun many times while unscrewing.
 
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You cock open remove magazine then close lever home ready to fire unscrew bottle about one revolution turn FIRE!!! Cock it unscrew one turn FIRE!!! Cock it FIRE!!! Cock it unscrew another turn FIRE!!!

If you get air still shooting hard fire more in between turns till it goes BLAT like burp.

YOU DONT WANT THAT POP!!! HISS THATS KILLING YOUR BOTTLE O-RING!!!

Do it right you only get loud burps that progressive gets quieter never wanna hear that POP and or any hiss sound coming from the bottle AT ALL. It's NOT an FX IMPACT.
 
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You cock open remove magazine then close lever home ready to fire unscrew bottle about one revolution turn FIRE!!! Cock it unscrew one turn FIRE!!! Cock it FIRE!!! Cock it unscrew another turn FIRE!!!

If you get air still shooting hard fire more in between turns till it goes BLAT like burp.

YOU DONT WANT THAT POP!!! HISS THATS KILLING YOUR BOTTLE O-RING!!!

Do it right you only get loud burps that progressive gets quieter never wanna hear that POP and or any hiss sound coming from the bottle AT ALL. It's NOT an FX IMPACT.
Click to expand...

^^^^this^^^^


also, when you first screw on the buddy bottle, there will be a point where you can feel the valve being opened by the push pin. When you get to that point, Mark the bottle to note the orientation, then screw home fully. When you unscrew the bottle, unscrew it to 1/4 turn past that orientation mark, then follow the procedure description by Mr Odoyle





Bb
 
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Hey Guys,

It must be me, because I'm having all kinds of air leak issues related to my Quick Fill System, Bottle or maybe regulator o-rings.

For the first month or so of fiddling, I had zero air leaks even though I probably removed the bottle, quick fill system and regulator many times ... this is without changing any o-rings at all.

Then the bottle started leaking and I changed out its o-ring a few times using MolyKote 33 as recommended by Theoben. Then I heard that you shouldn't use anything on the bottle o-ring (BS111) durometer 90. So I changed it again and the gun still leaked.

Next, I changed the outside regulator o-ring that Buckboy was gracious to sent me and the 2 quick fill o-rings thinking I'd gotten them worn or dirty. These were very difficult to remove and I had to use a razor to get at them as a o-ring pick was to big and I thought I might dig into the metal housing - scoring it.

Then the fill nipple started leaking air out its end - so I replaced it with a 005 - 90 durometer o-ring that seems to be doing the job.

Throughout this process, I've probably used too much Molykote 33 on all parts and even lost the spring to the quick fill shuttle valve. I replaced the spring with another one I had laying around that is almost a perfect replacement.

So right now, I've got 100 fill nipple, 100 quick fill, bottle and many regulator assembly replacement o-rings and the darn thing still leaks about 50 bar overnight. The leak seems to be from the quick fill system, but the bottle is very movement sensitive too. All my o-rings are the correct sizes listed here on airgun nation ... so I think I'm doing something fundamentally wrong and the answer is likely staring me in the face.



Sorry for rambling about the leaks, on the positive side ... I love all else about the gun, getting 170 shots per fill at 925 fps using 18.13 JSB pellets.

Any ideas would be appreciated ... I'm starting to get pissy about this...




 
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I assume you have eliminated the fill nipple (both base and shuttle valve) and gauge as the source of the leak. So, seems it almost has to be an O ring on either the inside the quick fill housing, the regulator base, or the bottle. You might give Martin a call and order some O rings from him, just to be sure you have the correct size. Air rifles are a lot of fun....except when they're not.


 
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