Tuning Red dot on pistol

[steve-l]

Please don't take offense that I cut and pasted your post. You have many good points that I wanted to expand on.

When instinct shooting sights are not used at all. The gun barrel is peripheral to the target view. What does help when instinct shooting is a mounted laser. Lasers are all I shoot with now. I have improved my instinct shooting from my hip with the help of lasers. I'm comfortable shooting out to 15 yards hitting a soda can. If quick target acquisition with the sight picture is the real thread's subject, there is no sight system better than a reflex sight. Target acquisition is better with lasers, IMO. The sight radius is much longer, starting from the lasers to the target. There is no sight frame obstruction to look around and field of view is 100%.

I recently changed my reflex sight on my GK1 for a physically smaller unit that mounts much closer to the barrel line and with a smaller dot. That change eliminated the necessity to hold over for short distances (This point is so important for close range targeting. I have designed a sight that achieves 0" vertical offset. This allows the sight to be used accurately from the end of the barrel with extreme precision. There are no sights on the market that can achieve this level of accuracy at extreme close range.) and the dot turns on and off automatically with gun motion. Because the lasers project a beam, I am using a remote wired switch to activate the system to reduce the time the visual signature is on the target. I am developing a wireless switch to reduce switch activation impact on hold position. A reflex sight eliminates the requirement to align front and rear sights and the reflex sight allows a large field of view all around the target increasing situation awareness and the ability to sight over, under, left or right to compensate for distance and target motion without losing sight of the target. My new sight also has 12 levels of dot intensity to compensate for all ambient light conditions including near darkness. Laser intensity can be an issue that can be addressed electronically to soften the brightness at close range. The reflex sight encourages the use of both eyes. This allows depth of view or instantaneous distance perception. Lasers accomplish these goals along with the ability to shoot accurately without the need to align the sight to your body. I have young kids shoot while holding the pistol behind their back and under their legs. Using prototypes, I have successfully shot from 5-100 Yards with a PB rifle, and the projectile zero hold is <+/- 1/2" at any distance from the end of the barrel to 100 yards. This sight maintains the accuracy at close range that other sights are not designed to do. There is no question which sight system is better. In the end, it's all about getting use to all these advantages. In other words, practice.

I make a number of claims that I can defend, if you would like to know more. My sight is not on the market yet, so I won't be going into excessive detail. Many of the points I have made applies to conventional use of lasers. You did an excellent post, and I thought you would like to hear another point of view. Brad

I modified my PP700SA with a modified laser that mounts in the milled guide way on the left side of the shroud as well as mounting a reflex sight on the 11mm rail. It gives me chance for close range mice. It is adjusted dead parallel to the barrel center line and a 1/2" left. It works well, but it takes practice. The biggest issue is that that the laser has to be manually turned on and off.

 

[airgunmike56]

steve-1 You got a picture of your PP 700 set up,,
Here is a picture of my PP750 with a red dot on the far rear,

 

[MRaccurate]

I modified my PP700SA with a modified laser that mounts in the milled guide way on the left side of the shroud as well as mounting a reflex sight on the 11mm rail. It gives me chance for close range mice. It is adjusted dead parallel to the barrel center line and a 1/2" left. It works well, but it takes practice. The biggest issue is that that the laser has to be manually turned on and off.

The modifications that I use on my prototypes takes no practice at all. New shooters of all ages are instantly experts at shots out to 13Yards. That is the length of our Air Range. Kids are shooting erasers hung from fish line and are shooting 1/4" beads off of toothpicks at any distance out to 13 yards. I use reactive targets as often as I can. The edge of playing cards and shooting fishline will not keep these kids challenged for long. I'll have to develop remote controlled moving targets next. The trajectory changes very little from 0-13 yards. I challenge the kids to shoot into a previous hole and the kids achieve that goal within a couple of shots. That right there is bug accurate at various yardage!

I have a number of models that use different switching solutions. Some models, I use tilt switches to keep the system turned off until I raise the gun. Others I have remote wired switch that I can activate when I need to. The wireless remote will allow me to get into position and then activate the system, take the shot and de-activate quickly, which saves battery and limit visual "on" time. I have other ideas that are not yet ready to be introduced to the public. Drop a post about lasers and I'll stay in contact.

 

[kkarmical]

Hello @airgunmike56

Unlike you I do not have the skills to just point and shoot and be accurate. My eyes are old and worn out so trying to see a squirrel at 20-yards and accurately aim through a set of Iron Sights are many years gone. With a Red Dot scope the local squirrels have at best a one - in - five chance of safely getting off my property .

ThomasT

Imo
Instinct & point shooting has no place in airgun hunting.

While instinct shooting can hit that can, with a red dot hits the can in the center, the scope hits the "C" in coke on the label..

Every animal whether pest or harvest deserves the most ethical kill.

It's one thing to punch paper or hit cans where a second shot can be done by adjusting, but using this on moving a breathing creature just is wrong.

 

[MRaccurate]

Air gun shooting may be the best platform for developing instinct and point shooting skills. It is low cost, operating within good parameters of the equipment and can be done safely. It can be challenging, fun to do by yourself or with a group and well worthwhile to develop the skills if they are ever needed.

I re-read all the posts for this thread, and I could not identify that instinct and point shooting was being used for any hunting. My laser sights are better than most systems out there and I use them to kill rodents around my home. The accuracy and precision of my sights out-performs all other sights at close range. Scopes are exceptional beyond 25 yards and red dots have many advantages over scopes, while equaling accuracy, at closer ranges. With a properly designed laser system on a pistol, it can equal other sights accuracy out beyond 50 yards, while shooting from the hip. That is not instinct, that is with a sight designed for that application.

When nature kills, it may not be ethical or humane, it may be quick, or the victim may be eaten alive, which cannot be pleasant for the victim to experience. It may be a drawn-out process, as in starvation or disease. Man uses living creatures for bait while fishing. Any shot that ends with the death of the animal is a good kill. Seems like "Ethical" is for the person that is doing the killing and has nothing to do with the victim. Review this post and challenge any data that is not accurate. I'm always open to civil discussions. This is just my opinion. I hope everyone will have a good day!

 

[steve-l]

First, I am not a hunter. I understand that hunting as a necessity may be required, but hunting as a sport or entertainment in my mind is sick. Killing a living animal should never be fun.

 

[airgunmike56]

Yes my eyes are old to, Its the reason I can not throw aspirins in the air and shoot them anymore, Place white paper in front of magazines make for easier loading , Some of you people get pisssed when I stick a hook in a worm to go fishing , Do you want me to kill it first? I also step on ants, I kill fly's with a fly swatter. I am just a born killer I guess, LOL.

 

[JungleShooter]

To get back on topic — I just watched a round table discussion from Vortex.

And they discussed using dot sights for hunting ("red dots", even if they are green).

They agreed that this breaks with a lot of traditions. And hunters the world over seem to be a pretty conservative, traditional crowed (exception proving the rule).
But they had to admit — leaving tradition and traditional looks aside — it's very practical solution for a good number of hunting scenarios!


I watched the show a day after I had removed the dot sight from my Huben, in order to mount a 5-20x scope, as my 40 and 60y pigeons are just not visible anymore to my somewhat used-up eyes....
After I had taken too long to put my scope's crosshairs onto a 6 yard feral pigeon, so that if flew off without a 14.04gr piece of lead in its body — today I put the reflex dot sight back on!!


➠ I really like magnification, I reeeeeally do. But my repeated misses on short and extreme short range shots tell me — I need to change.
I am finally ready to commit to the dot sights — and I am ready to explore other sight options like lasers.

Matthias

 

[kkarmical]

To get back on topic — I just watched a round table discussion from Vortex.

And they discussed using dot sights for hunting ("red dots", even if they are green).

They agreed that this breaks with a lot of traditions. And hunters the world over seem to be a pretty conservative, traditional crowed (exception proving the rule).
But they had to admit — leaving tradition and traditional looks aside — it's very practical solution for a good number of hunting scenarios!


I watched the show a day after I had removed the dot sight from my Huben, in order to mount a 5-20x scope, as my 40 and 60y pigeons are just not visible anymore to my somewhat used-up eyes....
After I had taken too long to put my scope's crosshairs onto a 6 yard feral pigeon, so that if flew off without a 14.04gr piece of lead in its body — today I put the reflex dot sight back on!!


➠ I really like magnification, I reeeeeally do. But my repeated misses on short and extreme short range shots tell me — I need to change.
I am finally ready to commit to the dot sights — and I am ready to explore other sight options like lasers.

Matthias


View attachment 495290

Used scopes on PCP pistol to this point, in trying to use them as compact carbines honestly just trying to shed weight of rifle.

What I noticed was that every moderator I have blocked the iron sights.
Could easily adjust and aim low, but what I was finding after several days of shooting was that too often 1st shots were not what I wanted because even though I could basically point shoot and adjust, wasn't good enough, so started playing around with the cheap red dots I had laying around, and this one immediately corrected the problem, so I ordered a upgrade.

That Leupold is on my list of wants, but settled for a Hawke.

Like the forward mount, fits my shooting style better.

 

[Ricklin]

If interested in a very decent red dot without breaking the bank? Sig-Sauer Romeo 5.
Buy ONLY from a Sig-Sauer dealer. Best deal i could find was about 125 dollars from a Sig dealer. My brother tried mine and really liked it, he found an online seller and paid about 75 bucks for his. Mine holds zero, his does not. Pretty sure he got a knock off, his vendor has a 30 day return policy, he got screwed with a knock off. There are more knock offs than real deal out in the wild. To avoid my brothers plight? Buy the vendor before you buy the product. Very unlikely a Sig Sauer dealer would risk their distribution by selling knock off products. Buy your vendor FIRST. My Beeman 2028 was far too loud, a moderator from Buck rail fixed that. They have a new muzzle piece that raises the sight enough and adds the needed threading it both looks great and works great. Tough to get the original Beeman part off, I split it with a diamond disc in my Dremel could glue it back if I ever need it. It is both pressed and glued, tough to remove.

 

[Rustynailz178]

I have a red dot on my cheap can shredder/indoor target pistol. It's great for pinpointing shots on a can or putting rounds on a target at 10-12 meters. I hit this can with 12, 7.9g flatheads from 10 meters away.

 

[kkarmical]

Have to say really like this one

 

[Ricklin]

I think I will scope my 2028, tho I am OK with the sights it comes with. 3/8" dovetail means I will need some rail adapters to put a decent scope on it. For now the iron sights are quite usable. I'm anxious to check velocity later today, need to pick up some 9V batteries. It was hitting 825 with the 14.3 gr. Crosman wally world hollow points, eats the air up quick, I'm anxious to see what it will do velocity wise and shall report back.

 

[keesbo]

Have a Hawke 1X20 on the PP700S-A
And a Vector Frenzy on the Velox.