Red Loctite Why?

[Fatmike]

I sent a message to aoa. I wonder what they'll reply. I figure their negligence is costing me a donny adapter at minimum and a barrel and time and effort. If this was a car I would be asking for the barrel and adapter at minimum. This is a terrible headache for me. I'm sure theres some fine print saying they can damage guns and not be responsible. A good business model would take care of the issue even if it bites them a little. Reputation is golden and these loctite cases look really bad for them. I'm really curious of what the reasoning behind this method. Either way I'll figure this out and enjoy this gun.

 

[athlon_oved]

None of the FX guns I have (or have had) seem to have Red Loctite anywhere. As to why anyone would use it on an airgun, well its beyond me as well. As the OP said, I too have suppressors for my Powder Burners and don’t use red loctite on any them.

While I w a s watching Steve's new factory video. I think I saw a guy put a dot of red on the first reg before he screwed it into the frame on like 5 or 6 of them in a row

Look at 6:30

 

[Mycapt65]

I use red 262 loctite on every springer I own and tune. The instructions says that fasteners have to be heated for the removal. Not true! Don't believe every manufacturers claims and guidelines. I've used various red loctites (high strength) professionally as a race engine builder, high end car master mechanic and now railroad machinist for forty years and in every instance parts can be disassembled with proper hand tools and good mechanical abilities.
Honestly blue (242 Offhand? ) is almost a waste of time. A dry clean fastener properly torqued is basically just as good.

It's the same way that 3m says 5200 marine adhesive is permanent. That's BS too. I've removed that from my boat bunches of times with standard hand tools. I find that internet people follow what they read from manufacturers claims as law before believing someone who actually uses the product. I certainly believe in following the instructions is a good idea but sometimes you need to trust experience. I'm sure someone will flame me with Googled quotes from the manufacturer specifications but I don't give a rats ass because I've used it for forty years.

 

[ChRiSiS]

While I w a s watching Steve's new factory video. I think I saw a guy put a dot of red on the first reg before he screwed it into the frame on like 5 or 6 of them in a row

Look at 6:30

Well, I suppose its possible, since I have never taken out the first reg from any of my airguns which have two regs (2 M3s and a Wildcat MK III BT). However I will stand by my statement that none of the 7 FXs that I currently have (2 M3s, 2 Crown MK IIs, a Wildcat MK III BT, a Dreamline Tactical and a Verminator MK II) nor any of the ones I have sold (Impact MK II, 2 Crowns, a Wildcat MK III Sniper and one Compact) had any red loctite anywhere that I ever saw it.

 

[athlon_oved]

Well, I suppose its possible, since I have never taken out the first reg from any of my airguns which have two regs (2 M3s and a Wildcat MK III BT). However I will stand by my statement that none of the 7 FXs that I currently have (2 M3s, 2 Crown MK IIs, a Wildcat MK III BT, a Dreamline Tactical and a Verminator MK II) nor any of the ones I have sold (Impact MK II, 2 Crowns, a Wildcat MK III Sniper and one Compact) had any red loctite anywhere that I ever saw it.

Not trying to argue. I just happen across the post and remembered that video.

 

[ChRiSiS]

Not trying to argue. I just happen across the post and remembered that video.

I understand. I didn’t think you were trying to argue, I was just responding that it was possible but I had never seen it.

I’m not one of the really sensitive guys on here even if you were trying to argue. I like a good argument anyway, especially when I’m sitting reading the forums on a Sunday night

 

[dgeesaman]

I see some overly categorical statements in this thread.

First, Loctite “red” is a number of possible products. They are mostly the same, but not identical. It is annoying, for sure. Even when I’ve consulted Henkel (Loctite) directly I get varying answers depending on who I ask. If you look very closely most of the difference between the product numbers of a given color are things like mil-spec, drinking water safe, aerospace grading, etc. That stuff doesn’t matter to us but check the application notes to ensure it agrees with the type you’re looking for and it’s not some oddball that was given a regular color.

The colors usually go in this order of increasing strength: purple, blue, red, green, black. I think there are yellow and orange too but not as common. Permatex generally aligns with their blue/red/green strength classes.

You generally want to consider three things with a loctite type product: how large is the thread, how permanent you want the hold to be, and how much you apply.

A dot of red can be easier to remove than a full coating of blue. Soaking the threads always produces a lot more grip. I will admit to using a small amount of higher strength loctite when I don’t have the ideal grade on hand.

Red, green, and black cure hard for maximum hold. When a moderator is attached with loctite red it’s because they don’t want you to get it off. At least theyre making it very difficult. Blue and purple cure to a plasticky consistency so that you don’t need heat. to loosen them, but that’s quite important with small threads because the effect of the loctite is amplified by the close clearances.

To secure large fasteners with large internal clearances you should use the red or green (or black). So that’s why you’ll see them noted for a range of thread sizes. When you use these with smaller bolts you will find the screw will break before it loosens unless you cook it off first.

Whether or not a fastener tends to come loose without loctite depends on the elasticity of the bolted joint. A screw holding together two thin pieces of sheet metal is not very elastic and more likely to loosen than a long screw that passes through a deep clearance hole (eg head bolts). Adding washers adds elasticity. Another notable joint that likes to loosen is dissimilar metals that experience thermal cycles. Not common in airguns but very common elsewhere.

 

[2L8]

I agree with you all for your many logical reasons... But, I'm sticking with purple

Patrick

 

[Bigragu]

I just tore down an M3, and the two areas that were solid and I had to apply a bit of heat were the pellet probe block screw, M4 x 10 countersunk, and the bottle adapter.
Every once in awhile I see strong locktite used on the bottle valve threads, also.

Someone on my MK2 used locktite on the bottle adapters male threads which has caused some galling on both the adapters and bottle valves threads. I recently ran a tap and dye to chase the threads. Looks brand new again.

I’ve made it a point to only use vibratite on grub screws M4 and smaller, and socket head cap bolts M2 and smaller.

Items prone to unthread on their own like cocking rods and C1’s, I use a concoction of both vibra tite and blue locktite and it’s held up well. Might have to apply a 10 second burst of heat from a micro torch but that’s no biggie.

The trick in using vibratite properly is you have to let it skin up on the threads after applying. The instructions say to wait 10-15 minutes before threading on fasteners.

Vibratite does flake a bit as you’re threading on the fastener. Because of this reason I will never apply vibratite on any fastener within the HPA system

 

[Simplemann]

I use red 262 loctite on every springer I own and tune. The instructions says that fasteners have to be heated for the removal. Not true! Don't believe every manufacturers claims and guidelines. I've used various red loctites (high strength) professionally as a race engine builder, high end car master mechanic and now railroad machinist for forty years and in every instance parts can be disassembled with proper hand tools and good mechanical abilities.
Honestly blue (242 Offhand? ) is almost a waste of time. A dry clean fastener properly torqued is basically just as good.

It's the same way that 3m says 5200 marine adhesive is permanent. That's BS too. I've removed that from my boat bunches of times with standard hand tools. I find that internet people follow what they read from manufacturers claims as law before believing someone who actually uses the product. I certainly believe in following the instructions is a good idea but sometimes you need to trust experience. I'm sure someone will flame me with Googled quotes from the manufacturer specifications but I don't give a rats ass because I've used it for forty years.

Wrong!!! I'm not going to flame you!! You have 40 years of experience in a variety of mechanical professions and I appreciate your input . But I'm still chicken to use red loctite I'll stick with the blue stuff.

 

[Mycapt65]

Wrong!!! I'm not going to flame you!! You have 40 years of experience in a variety of mechanical professions and I appreciate your input . But I'm still chicken to use red loctite I'll stick with the blue stuff.

That's OK when I realized that this was about using it on a moderator, I wouldn't use red either. If so only a very small amount. Blue would be fine. Most important is that the threads are clean and dry first.

 

[Fatmike]

Here is a wonderful update. I contacted aoa about the red loctite on the lcs sk19 moderator. I didnt initially disclose that I wasnt the original owner who had them work on the gun and they were ready and willing to fix the issue. I let them know I wasnt the original customer and they are still going to the issue. To me that's way above standard and a sign that they are the premier dealer and service company others have spoke of. It the great scheme of things they didnt own me anything but they are standing behind their work. I'm very happy with my service and special thanks to Shane at aoa.

 

[Hw9720]

In the old gunsmith world red lock tight is refered to as "Dreaded RED".

tim