I’m going to buy a Daystate Revere for informal backyard target practice (primarily offhand ) and field target competition. I’m new to the world of PCPs. My frame of reference is a Beeman R7 and FWB 300s. A post on one of the other subject areas “Daystate Revere Consistency” has me wondering whether I should/need to purchase a regulated vs an un-regulated gun. I think regulated, but want to be sure. I’d appreciate your comments. Thanks, Tom
Regulated vs Un-Regulated
- Thread starter TomJ
- Start date
Better unregulated air guns are better than poorly made regulated guns. Confusing? An Air Arms S500/S400 rifle unregulated will give more consistent shots than most factory regulated BSA R10 Mk2's. That's a blanket statement, but pretty accurate. It just depends on the rifle. Air Arms does something special to their unregulated rifles that make them shoot super consistent. In contrast, an unregulated Daystate Huntsman can't hold a candle to the Air Arms rifles. It would take putting a regulator in a Huntsman to make it shoot as consistent as an unregulated Air Arms.
If it were me, I would find a rifle I like, that fits, has the features etc, that I wanted and then worry about consistency. If it turns out to be regulated, then great. If it's not, then ask questions, and find out about it's track record. To be honest, air guns are moving more to regulated every day. I don't know of any "high end" air gun that is not regulated, that ought to tell you something.
If it were me, I would find a rifle I like, that fits, has the features etc, that I wanted and then worry about consistency. If it turns out to be regulated, then great. If it's not, then ask questions, and find out about it's track record. To be honest, air guns are moving more to regulated every day. I don't know of any "high end" air gun that is not regulated, that ought to tell you something.
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Time and again experience shows unregulated guns that have been studied, tuned and shot in their sweet spot range will perform as well or better than finicky, leak-prone, creep-prone regulated guns. In my opinion.
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Regulator are only SLIGHTLY more o-ring maintenance needed than the rest of the high pressure pneumatic systems o-rings.
Sure some go years, sure some leak out of the box, O-rings ARE a maintenance item period !
Learn to service your PCP/s yourself or pay to have it done.
No Whining Allowed .. Lol
Sure some go years, sure some leak out of the box, O-rings ARE a maintenance item period !
Learn to service your PCP/s yourself or pay to have it done.
No Whining Allowed .. Lol
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No problem servicing anything but if I can tune to get 40 shots within 15fps without adding weight and complexity to my airgun I just don't see the point. Even regulated guns show a spread and anything under 20fps in a 40 shot curve is not going to affect accuracy much if at all. Total shot count per fill, now that's a different story. If shot count per fill is a big concern then regulated makes more sense to me.Regulator are only SLIGHTLY more o-ring maintenance needed than the rest of the high pressure pneumatic systems o-rings.
Sure some go years, sure some leak out of the box, O-rings ARE a maintenance item period !
Learn to service your PCP/s yourself or pay to have it done.
No Whining Allowed .. Lol
I think the guy made a thread title regulated vs unregulated because he wants to hear both sides of the story not just post after post saying that regulated is better for everyone.
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Pending USE ...
Field use / hunting or just for giggles shooting honestly no need for a Reg.
Precision high power & long range most of the PCP's we see will be regulated ( Tho Airforce is a standout being W/O )
Precision / Competition such as 10m, Bench Rest or Field Target, Extreme events of either .... Regulated guns by a landslide !!
No need to argue our view honestly ... You will use as well promote your view and I shall do the same
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USFT is an example of an argument for unregulated.
Know your fill and refill pressures, faithfully live within those, and it can shoot clean scores. (And beat a whole bunch of regulated guns).
Know your fill and refill pressures, faithfully live within those, and it can shoot clean scores. (And beat a whole bunch of regulated guns).
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I’ve shot a regulated revere in hft its was bought as a backup to a red wolf i had to send back for repair. It was just as accurate as the red wolf but you needed to bbe a bit more careful shooting it cause its lighter than the red wolf also you need to top off to be safe before the end of a 60 shot match. You probably make it but i never push boundaries in a match
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Whoa. Easy there bud!
Here's another opinion. Folks that lean on a "crutch" (just a term for a competition aid not a slight to anyone) might not be as good a shooter as someone who is more in tune with their tune.
What I mean by that is that let's say you know how your unregulated tune performs like nobody else and the other guy has to rely on his regulator being perfect at all times. Any problems with the regulated gun could easily cost a match, and they are unquestionably more apt to have an unpredicted issue than an unregulated gun.
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If you end up competing with it then you’ll probably get a lot more and a lot better advice on what you need from your competitors than you will here.
You absolutely do not need a regulator for backyard target practice. People were shooting some very accurate pcps for a couple of decades before regulators started to become standard equipment. That said however, there’s a good reason why they have become as common as they are. Part of that reason is consistency, but another part is shot count. With an unregulated gun you typically can get a certain number of very consistent shots right in the middle of the shot curve. With my S410 it was around 20 shots centered around 150 bar if I was being picky and maybe 60 shots if I wasn’t. If I was trying to shoot sub-MOA groups at 50 yards then I needed to be picky.
With a regulator instead of worrying about your shot curve you just fill it up to its maximum pressure and shoot until it goes below the regulated pressure.
Another of the things that has made regulated guns predominant are cheap compressors. Back in the day when we used scuba tanks and hand pumps it was a PITA have to charge a gun much higher than 200 bar(~3000 psi), so those unregulated guns with a sweet spot at around 150 bar made a lot of sense. Your scuba tank was only rated to 3000 or 3442 psi and that was when it was full. Now with $300 compressors that go up to 4500 psi it makes a lot more sense to have a regulated gun that gets more shots per fill.
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most of my shots are off-hand/pesting .. the only place i appreciate regulated is on the bench, shooting targets .. that said if i was buying a higher end gun, i think externally adjustable power and regulation is kindof a 'why not' ... as i said though, in my case i dont miss a regulator a bit, but it does make it nice and consistent for those longer bench sessions .. i only have one gun thats regulated, i can say definitely you want one that you dont have to disassemble to adjust .. for other guns i have a regulator i put on my tank and do it that way.
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I do a lot of plinking and some pesting, no competition shooting. I have a Daystate Huntsman .22 unregulated. I get 40 shots per fill and they all can hit a quarter sized spinner at 50 yards. I also have a Daystate Huntsman .177 regulated. I get 50 shots per fill and all the shots will hit a quarter sized spinner at 50 yards. The only difference I can see is the regulated rifle has a higher fill pressure and a fill probe.
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Regulated by far has higher consistency potential, potential is the key word. They also have potential to be far less consistent, again, potential is key word.
When shot inside the sweet spot, the most reliable, day to day airgun is going to be unregulated because you're omitting the variability of regulator creep presenting itself, be it in nominal conditions or when weather fluctuates greatly from hot to cold, as the o-rings inside a regulator do not favor very cold temps, an unregulated rifle should have the upper hand.
The only downside to unregulated rifles is a smaller range of pressure for their sweet spot in the ideal tuned bell curve. You may only get 500-600 psi of pressure drop in the reservoir prior to needing to refill where as a regulated rifle could go 1000~, these are arbitrary numbers but fairly close to what we see in real tests.
When shot inside the sweet spot, the most reliable, day to day airgun is going to be unregulated because you're omitting the variability of regulator creep presenting itself, be it in nominal conditions or when weather fluctuates greatly from hot to cold, as the o-rings inside a regulator do not favor very cold temps, an unregulated rifle should have the upper hand.
The only downside to unregulated rifles is a smaller range of pressure for their sweet spot in the ideal tuned bell curve. You may only get 500-600 psi of pressure drop in the reservoir prior to needing to refill where as a regulated rifle could go 1000~, these are arbitrary numbers but fairly close to what we see in real tests.
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If one who is a recreational FT shooter is unfortunate having a sudden air leak during a match .... They just learned something that MAINTENANCE is a very real requirement.
If a Seasoned and serious FT shooters suffers the same fate .... They knew better and brushed off the required maintenance. No sympathy
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It's new shooters who believe reg's are set it and forget it... a bad day is coming, hopefully not in a competition.
Every regulator will eventually need maintenance in addition to common air rifle maintenance.
I run both, favoring a well tuned, reg-free build, and constantly inspecting reg builds for stable/consistent pressure.
Every regulator will eventually need maintenance in addition to common air rifle maintenance.
I run both, favoring a well tuned, reg-free build, and constantly inspecting reg builds for stable/consistent pressure.
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I think the unregulated Revere is a very decent shooting gun, with or without a reg. I also suspect an un-regulated one can be easily fitted with a Huma reg should you desire to try with and without. I own the very similar Daystate regal, and it would be fully consistant enough in shot cout and velocity spread without a reg.
LD
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After 20 plus years of shooting/competing in field target, I personally prefer an unregulated USFT... a low pressure unregulated air rifle.
Low pressure is key to getting a lot of shots from an unregulated rig. A larger air reservoir (500cc or so), of 1,500 psi unregulated air can DEPENDABLY provide 40-60, (or more if it's an LD tune), very consistent shots at 12 to 20fpe very easily.
Dependability is the key word for sure. If you are a repair/tuning, person, (or your hire someone), like motorhead says, you can use a regulator with a lot more confidence...
But, over my 20 years, at the important Grand Prix matches I've attended, I've seen at least one regulator failure per event... no problem if it's not you, or if you can quickly fix it yourself.. but, even then, you are still gonna lose some points that day...
Why risk it??
Low pressure is key to getting a lot of shots from an unregulated rig. A larger air reservoir (500cc or so), of 1,500 psi unregulated air can DEPENDABLY provide 40-60, (or more if it's an LD tune), very consistent shots at 12 to 20fpe very easily.
Dependability is the key word for sure. If you are a repair/tuning, person, (or your hire someone), like motorhead says, you can use a regulator with a lot more confidence...
But, over my 20 years, at the important Grand Prix matches I've attended, I've seen at least one regulator failure per event... no problem if it's not you, or if you can quickly fix it yourself.. but, even then, you are still gonna lose some points that day...
Why risk it??
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I think reg's get a bad reputation from, 1: Until 10 years ago most were custom and/or one offs, 2: Many shooters let their regulated guns sit. Regulators need to be worked, they aren't designed to be static, neither is the gun for that matter. 3: If you are competing with an eye toward winning, scheduled reseals, while not mandatory, are cheap insurance to ward off failures.
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It's a little like shooting a Spring gun... If that is your choice of means to compete... you better stay on top of maintaining your rig....
The winners usually can totally notice a need for.... and repair or retune their equipment, very quickly.. at the match.....
Otherwise, if you want to win and focus on your shooting instead of tuning and fixing... then choose unregulated PCP... IMHO.
The winners usually can totally notice a need for.... and repair or retune their equipment, very quickly.. at the match.....
Otherwise, if you want to win and focus on your shooting instead of tuning and fixing... then choose unregulated PCP... IMHO.
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