Tuning Regulator Setting

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Chopper61

Chopper61

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Oct 26, 2020
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I’ve been getting some great help on this forum with my new hobby my thanks! I’m learning of this great world of PCP. I just want to understand more of a regulators use. Again I shoot a .25 BullBoss I had it set at 150 and received 757 FPS should I have set it lower at say 135? I’m just starting to understand about the bell curve and what max pressure is best for your particular gun. If someone could give me some examples of different or changed settings that would help me out and thanks
 
If you lower the reg to 135bar you will shoot even slower and get more shots per fill.

As the other poster who referenced GTA forum stated you could tear into the gun and open up the transfer port and tune it for the reg but may be counter productive when you want to switçh air tubes.

I personally don't like regulators and tend to leave unregulated guns alone and back the power down naturally and fill to lower start fill pressure to get a good reliable flat shot curve. A regulator will eventually require maintenance sooner or later and I prefer to fill lower pressure so I don't look at regs for increased shot count and just fill more often as needed but I am also not a high power freak either. I'm only into accuracy.

Fact is most of my longest distance shooting guns aren't regulated.

What I don't like the most about regulators is the potential creep and for many guns the first couple shots may be off target and you don't know it till you missed that money shot you don't know if it was you or the gun that missed.

I like to keep things simple and trouble free as possible. I won't use a reg unless I had no other choice the gun shoots too bad that I can't flatten the curve like a 22 Hatsan Flash pup for example. All my other Rifle versions shoot fine unregulated.

Only other way I actually would want to regulate is to shoot indoors to force the power down low and kill the high power.

If I need higher power I buy a bigger caliber.
 
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Plenum for increased power but you have some serious tuning and modding to do. 

I keep things simple so I shouldn't be the first to ask about frankensteining a gun. I don't think I am smarter than the manufacturer engineering department otherwise they would have already done it at the factory.

I have done it before through trial and error and ended up spending way too much money on replacement parts so that's my story why I rather not.

Matter of fact just picked up 2 more Hatsans first thing is to back the power down A LOT!!! for both. Better kill factor at low power than high power and super tame to shoot accurately at low power and real quiet and plenty of shots.

You could just sell the regulators if you don't need them. Or just use them as is you have 25 caliber 750fps is plenty power already.

I kill birds at 50 yards from a 650fps 177 drops stone cold no fluttering straight down compared to shooting high power 177.

You can follow others to mod your gun it's up to you as I said I like to keep things simple and trouble free maintenance free and only go for accuracy and not power.

There's a guy killing squirrels making videos with his 25 Leshiy only shooting 500-600fps.
 
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No I agree, maybe that’s y the BB is a good enough gun for the $’s. It doesn’t drift from what I’m seeing as my research suggested. At 2900 or completely full it’s pretty accurate I might have 1 or 2 in the shot cycle, but I wouldn’t want anybody shooting at me with this gun! Lol again for the $’s compared to some others it fairly decent. I think it’s good enough we’re Hatsan will even make a couple of improvements with the hammer spring and port. Hopefully not changing the price to much.
 
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The good news is it’s actually quite simple to tune a regulated PCP. Whatever pressure the regulator is set to, you want to dial in the hammer spring tension to get the best consistency (extreme spread). All you do is gradually increase the hammer spring tension until the velocity tops out. Then back it down until the velocity falls to 95% - 97% of that maximum. 

That’s it. Doing this puts it into a state of tune similar to an unregulated PCP operating at the top of its bell curve. What that means is, if the pressure varies a little due to temperature or regulator creep or whatever, it won’t have a meaningful effect on the velocity. Put more succinctly, the pressure and hammer strike are working in harmony with each other.

If the resulting velocity isn’t what you wanted, change either the regulator’s setpoint or the porting (or a little of both).
 
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My 2 cts: a reg turns your gun into a different gun. Whether that's a good thing depends on the gun and on your preferences. Yes, it often becomes more complex, but a reg also eliminates the action stress and noise of an unregulated shooter. It also flattens the shot curve -- consistent accuracy!

Example 1: my Hatsan Flash pups in .25. Uneven shot string, rough shooting unregulated. Got tamed with an Audrius reg, big plenum, 59 Eur shipped. Guns became civilized, consistently accurate. Reasonably high power (50j) with a 130 bar set point. Reg was easy to put in. No mods needed: stock valve spring, hammer spring, hammer weight. Only opened up the ports to 80% of the cal + tuned the HST below the knee. 

Example 2: artemis p12 in .25. Pretty good shot string + accuracy unregulated. However, horrible ping ringing in my ear. 😵 Reg eliminated the ping but the gun started wasting air. Cause = increased hammer bounce: the lower regulated pressure caused the valve to close more slowly. Thereafter experimented with valve springs, reg set points, HST. Ended up putting in an SSG (see that separate forum topic). Miracle/happy ending: the P12 has become a low-noise, high shot count, easy cocking, consistently accurate son of a refined gun. The same happened to my Kral Jumbo. See the Kral Jumbo Project forum topic by Vetmx.

Example 3: Kral Puncher in .25. Low cost gun, easy to shoulder, consistently accurate unregulated. No ping, smooth cocking + low-noise action. Don't even THINK of touching it with a reg 👿

I don't know about your Hatsan. Sufficient plenum volume (1/2 cc per desired FPE) should enable a lower regulator set point and lower HST, making for easier cocking. By contrast, smaller plenum volume requires 10% higher reg set point for the same power, then also requiring more HST.

You always need to start out by ensuring the ports are at 80% of the caliber. Then start tuning. For a .22 I would suggest a regulator starting set point of 100-110 bar. For a .25 start with 120. Then increase your HST (hammer spring tension) until your pellet speed plateaus/stops increasing. If you are happy with the speed, back off the HST until your speed is 3-5% lower than the plateau. You are then "below the knee", wasting much less air. If you want higher pellet speed, increase your reg set point by 5 - 10 bar and increase your HST further, etc. If you reach coil bind before reaching your desired speed you will need to stop. Or start plowing thru the "tuning" forum topic to discover the fascinating depths of the tuning world. Also look for Bob Sterne's posts in Hardairmagazine. Good luck!

🐦
 
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While sticking a reg into a guns to flatten the power curve might work on some guns, it might not be that simple on others (I don’t know anything about the bull boss) 

The airways in an unreggulated gun are often smaller in an attempt to flatten the curve. The valves tend to have a smaller front transfer port, and the barrel porting may be smaller too. Sticking a reg into a gun with these reduced airways will flatten the curve but may not get the velocity you are after unless the reg it set to a higher pressure, resulting in minimal or no increase in shot count, this sort of defeats the purpose of fitting one in the first place.



Bb
 
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While sticking a reg into a guns to flatten the power curve might work on some guns, it might not be that simple on others (I don’t know anything about the bull boss) 

The airways in an unreggulated gun are often smaller in an attempt to flatten the curve. The valves tend to have a smaller front transfer port, and the barrel porting may be smaller too. Sticking a reg into a gun with these reduced airways will flatten the curve but may not get the velocity you are after unless the reg it set to a higher pressure, resulting in minimal or no increase in shot count, this sort of defeats the purpose of fitting one in the first place.



Bb
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Yup, therefore you gotta ensure that the ports are at 80% of the cal when putting in a reg. As regards the valve inlet port (i.e. the port where the compressed air enters the valve from the cylinder), most Hatsans do not require any widening so that avoids an irreversible mod. (Do not know the bullboss though) 🐦
 
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Thanks man) I have already come to the collusion in my opinion and again I like sending 32-35 gr pellets down field with authority! The BullBoss is better as an Unregulated Rifle, maybe with mods, idk. One thing I truest miss on a regulated BB is the change in sound, someone explain to me in another reply, regulator is shooting less air, so sound is dampen makes total sense. Also the accuracy of my particular gun whether it’s full to the brim or 1000 psi it’s Accurate! So the bottle brush went back in, accepting what for not and feeling better with what I have. Thanks for your input bud.
 
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The regulator acts as a depinger to dampen the vibration resonance during the shot. Imagine a bell you hit that rings then try and ring it while holding the bell part with your other hand to lessen the ring quiet huh? This is what the rubber grommet should do as well instead of the regulator.

Screenshot_2020-10-20-09-04-032.1604117536.png



 
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In my case, adding a regulator extended my usable shot string from about 20 to about 50 shots. It an immense amount of air and time to get that result. 

My Marauder was unregulated, so added a regulator. While you normally get about 30 shots per fill in a .22 Marauder when unregulated, the spread was too high for me, and I wanted more consistent results and more air economy.

Adding the regulator, at about 1800 PSI, replacing the transfer port, installing new lighter hammer and lighter springs did the trick.

Problem is that any unregulated gun from the manufacturer is designed to work from the highest fill pressure to some theoretical lowest pressure, and they seek the nice middle ground. In Crosman's case, its about 3000 psi to 1800 psi. Springs are balanced to achieve the middle ground shooting. Which, I tend to agree with Odoyle, if shooting unregulated, don't go to max fill, only fill to the top of the acceptable shot string.

By adding the regulator and getting a lighter hammer, lighter springs and a wide open transfer port, I go for a full 3000 PSI fill, and the shot string is consistent to 50 shots now. Granted I tuned the whole thing down to 22 Foot pounds from about 30, but it's fun to shoot, and I spend a whole lot less time filling. I was able to balance the gun for a consistent 1800 PSI without worrying about hitting the hammer hard enough to shoot at 2800 psi or so.

The rebalance took assistance from Tom Holland, and Mr. Hill of Hill Airguns to get it right. Many days of trial and error, and trying multiple different springs, two different hammer setups, and more. It was time consuming so don't get discouraged. I probably spent 6 weeks a couple nights a week working on it. But, it was worth the work.

On the other end of the spectrum, Russbear, the winner of the last Xtreme Benchrest doesn't use a regulator in his gun. In an interview, he said he relied on a very large air tank so the 25 or 30 shots used in a competition didn't drain enough air to change velocity, so just by air volume, he got the consistent shots he needed for the competition. In fact, there is some rule about the maximum size tank and his gun originally exceeded the rule. Had to get a smaller tank to compete.

I also think whether you want a regulator or not can depend on the type of shooting you do. I shoot mostly bench because I can't walk long distances or carry the gun over ground, so no hunting. For bench, consistency is key. A well tuned regulated gun can provide more consistency over a longer shot string. for me, that saves time filling.

For hunting, does it really matter? If you are only taking 20 or 30 shots in a day, and a half inch to 1 inch accuracy at the ranges you are working at is adequate, then go for it. It all just depends.

I also have a Gen 1 Impact. The regulator has been the biggest pain in the posterior one can imagine. Mostly because I damaged the gun and had to replace it. What a pain. When it works it's a marvel of engineering. For today, it's in pieces waiting for me to have repair time.

The Marauder wasn't designed for an adjustable reg, so each time I wanted to adjust it, degass the gun, take the gun apart, remove the regulator, adjust the reg, reverse, air it back up and usually the next day, off to the chrony to see where I am. That's why, once it's set, I'm not ever touching it again. I'll shoot it as configured for a very long time.

Good luck on your regulators, I like them, but to each their own.
 
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Thanks lot of info, you broke it down for me even more. Which brings me back to my earlier statement on more expensive guns have more bells and whistles, however there is not to much fun in the mod department if that’s what you like to do and I think I would amazing were you can take this! I love shooting this gun! I’m a bench shooter and again what I miss with the regulator is the sound, completely dampened but I still don’t like the BB hammer speing set up seems they put the money and design thought somewhere else to keep the money down. My set up had the baffling upgraded I also put in a wolf after that there’s nothing else to do but shoot and that’s were the hammer spring is a little wrench in the works so say. Good outweighs the bad so far tho. Thanks for taking the time. I’m definitely more educated now than before I posted
 
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