HW/Weihrauch Resealing an early HW70

[moleeye]

So I bought an early ( SN 89k ) HW70 online, pretty clean but I assumed it would need a reseal, so I started researching and it looks like these earliest ones may need a different seal from later models.

Some suppliers of seals don't mention any difference, JG mentions an older stye seal but don't show a pic and it's out of stock anyway. I don't want to disassemble it and find out the seal doesn't fit. Can any one shed any light on what seal I need and where I might find one?

Also any tips on what to use to remove the picturesque looking end cap?
Thanks

 

[.20calguy]

So I bought an early ( SN 89k ) HW70 online, pretty clean but I assumed it would need a reseal, so I started researching and it looks like these earliest ones may need a different seal from later models.

Some suppliers of seals don't mention any difference, JG mentions an older stye seal but don't show a pic and it's out of stock anyway. I don't want to disassemble it and find out the seal doesn't fit. Can any one shed any light on what seal I need and where I might find one?

Also any tips on what to use to remove the picturesque looking end cap?
Thanks

View attachment 417980

Mine is from the eighties and I bought the first piston seal kit from Pyramid Air but I didn't polish the chamber so it only lasted a year os so of pretty heavy shooting. I bought the new seal from Airgun Spares, I believe.
Theres a reason that my chamber needed polishing. Someone tried to shoot a Dremel Tool bit from it. So I didn't expect the seal to last I just hoped for the best. Now I have to figure out how to polish it.

 

[moleeye]

Hmmm, I saw that white HW seal online, it is available, but I think I saw a post with a pic of the seal someone used for one of these earliest HW 70 s that showed a seal that was like the one in my Win 353, which is hollow in the middle and therefore shows the flange on the piston in the middle when you slip it over the flange.
I get the impression from reading about them there are differences between the first HW70 s with the grip medallion and the ones that followed??

 

[marflow 777]

on a UK forum a guy needed a trigger part and no matter how hard i looked no parts diagram was found for the non-safety hw70 unless it came it the box with the pistol in the manual
and without it you can't compare part numbers
but at JG airguns it states old style pistol seal so yes there are 2 different seals but where to get one will be interesting
after i found old that parts for the early model are hard to impossible to find it was taken off my list
https://www.jgairguns.biz/hw70-c-78_377_385/wei9068-piston-seal-for-hw70-old-style-p-5456.html

what would i do is call Air Rifle Headquarters and ask them if there is a seal that they have that will work
you might assume that they took a seal off the shelf vs making one special for the pistol
your answer could be here
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/weihrauchowners/

 

[moleeye]

Yes, I only find old springers interesting at this point, and parts are frustrating, I find that on JG the box beside the part I want often says "notify me when back in stock" which means forget it, and at Chambers a month ago I spent 45 minutes composing a small order only to have the site crash multiple times when it came time to pay. I still need an end cap screw for my Win 353, and if I ever found a cocking lever for a Daisy 230/Diana 23 clone I would feel like I hit the lottery LOL.

 

[marflow 777]

i have posted on AGF forum in the UK to see if the seal is used on another gun
you need a rear cap screw for a model 5 -6 okay i will look and a model 23

well the cocking arm has been found but the cost and the shipping out of Germany will make it painful if you need help understanding the site which is a pain the first time message me the guys there are fantastic Enrico is great
https://www.waffencenter-gotha.de/s...ehre/Diana-23/-Spannhebel-DIANA-23::2701.html
the screw if you don't know the size i will get that to you
and will post the seal info if i can find it i think you will have to get the new version piston but i am guessing
i have bought from Chambers Knibbs and Protek in the UK, Waffencenter in Germany been chasing parts a long time

CAP SCREW is a m3 -.50 x 2mm thread length
the replacement cap at Waffencenter do not have the screw hole and on the model 5 it would make it easier to install the cap because as most know lining up the hole is hard as the replacements come a matte finish so if you want them to match you need to polish and blue
hard screw to find but a hex grub screw could be and option
mike

 

[marflow 777]

sent an email to Mark at Knibbs for more info

 

[moleeye]

i have posted on AGF forum in the UK to see if the seal is used on another gun
you need a rear cap screw for a model 5 -6 okay i will look and a model 23

well the cocking arm has been found but the cost and the shipping out of Germany will make it painful if you need help understanding the site which is a pain the first time message me the guys there are fantastic Enrico is great
https://www.waffencenter-gotha.de/s...ehre/Diana-23/-Spannhebel-DIANA-23::2701.html
the screw if you don't know the size i will get that to you
and will post the seal info if i can find it i think you will have to get the new version piston but i am guessing
i have bought from Chambers Knibbs and Protek in the UK, Waffencenter in Germany been chasing parts a long time

CAP SCREW is a m3 -.50 x 2mm thread length
the replacement cap at Waffencenter do not have the screw hole and on the model 5 it would make it easier to install the cap because as most know lining up the hole is hard as the replacements come a matte finish so if you want them to match you need to polish and blue
hard screw to find but a hex grub screw could be and option
mike

Thanks Mike, I really appreciate you taking the time to do all that research for me.
So you think I could just get the new style piston and seal and it would fit OK ? I might go that route. I will look into the cocking arm info also.
Thanks,
Dan

 

[marflow 777]

on the HW70 piston i don't know
Chamber has a good picture of it but i have nothing to compare it to
the HW70 has been on my list of pistols to buy but i have not done so and i have so many pistols
i will spend some more time seeing if i can find more info but with the past post in the UK and yours i have read a lot i know where the parts are and the Weihrauch forum could help but sometimes those types of forums are pretty slow but i do know that the guys in the UK like the pistol so i will see if something shows there
i know the trigger was changed

 

[marflow 777]

so here are the parts diagrams for the early HW70 and it would appear that the new piston COULD work
all i have for now but if i read this right there has been 3 seal styles
now the sears look very different
i don't know yet

 

[marflow 777]

https://weihrauch.co.uk/manuals

 

[marflow 777]

i have gotten nothing from the UK forum to help so still waiting
Happy Holidays
mike

 

[moleeye]

i have gotten nothing from the UK forum to help so still waiting
Happy Holidays
mike

I found a post from a canadian forum in which the guy stripped his early model down and found the piston seal to still be viable even though the breech seal had deteriorated.
It did show a pic of the piston/seal and it was indeed hollow in the middle like the Win 353.

In that spirit I made temporary breech seal and got a decent shot cycle with a chrony reading of 380 with a light pellet, so I will get a breech seal next time I can think up a few other things to order to justify the postage and see how it goes. My home made seal is giving it barrel droop so I can't really shoot it much at this point.
Cheers
Dan

 

[marflow 777]

if the breech seal has not changed over time then it is just a common seal that would fit most of the Weihrauch rifles
https://www.airgunspares.com/catalog/product/view/id/14585/category/925/

https://vortekproducts.com/products/beeman-weihrauch-breech-seal

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/...ries-select-marksman-and-hw-air-rifles?a=3656

https://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251485/2425046.htm

and you are right the prices vary a hell of a lot
now the 353 is a Diana model 5 and it take the same piston seal as a 5-6 all and model 10
the Diana tube size is 24.89mm or a 25mm seal now could the 70 be using a Diana seal well i don't know

i will post of i find out anything else for you or others reading alone someone down the road will have the same question so hopefully we can get the right answers

 

[.20calguy]

Hmmm, I saw that white HW seal online, it is available, but I think I saw a post with a pic of the seal someone used for one of these earliest HW 70 s that showed a seal that was like the one in my Win 353, which is hollow in the middle and therefore shows the flange on the piston in the middle when you slip it over the flange.
I get the impression from reading about them there are differences between the first HW70 s with the grip medallion and the ones that followed??

Mine is early eighties, and has no medallion in the stock.

It’s marked Beeman, and was ordered at the local airgun shop, from the Robert Beeman cataloge.

 

[.20calguy]

Here’s a pic of my original seal, with the damage that someone did on it. They apparently put the bit in and pointed it up and shot.

That is why the chamber needs polishing.

 

[moleeye]

Here’s a pic of my original seal, with the damage that someone did on it. They apparently put the bit in and pointed it up and shot. View attachment 418845View attachment 418844View attachment 418846

That is why the chamber needs polishing.

Yes, from my recent reading online, yours is the next version with the newer piston seal, and does it have the grub screw to hold the end cap in place? That was supposed to be another change.
Regarding the foreign body in the seal, I remember when they released a bunch of those Predom Lucksnic ( sp ) pistols from wherever, there were reports of some with nails embedded in their seals from enterprising Europeans using nails for ammo.
I bought 5 of them because they were $35.00 apiece and looked like the James Bond Walther pistol.
No nails in mine, but they shot very poorly anyway.LOL

 

[Struckat]

So one landed here this weekend. Says HW70, made for Beeman’s. Serial 104527, no idea how old. Has a nice HW medalion on the grip and no safety.

It was non functional, all dried up. I will clean it up and put it back together with this seal. It has some marks in it and may be a little brittle.

I would like to find a new seal.

 

[moleeye]

So one landed here this weekend. Says HW70, made for Beeman’s. Serial 104527, no idea how old. Has a nice HW medalion on the grip and no safety.

It was non functional, all dried up. I will clean it up and put it back together with this seal. It has some marks in it and may be a little brittle.

I would like to find a new seal.

View attachment 418968

Yep thats a good pic of the early seal we have been discussing and so far not finding anywhere. If it looks usable give it a shot!
I have not disassembled mine just made up a new breech seal to replace the original one that resembled pie crust.
I shot it about 50 times today and it's pretty nice with the original piston seal, so I'm going to continue on as is for now except for getting a factory breech seal.

I think I read they started making changes around SN# 123K, but could be mistaken.

 

[.20calguy]

Yes, from my recent reading online, yours is the next version with the newer piston seal, and does it have the grub screw to hold the end cap in place? That was supposed to be another change.
Regarding the foreign body in the seal, I remember when they released a bunch of those Predom Lucksnic ( sp ) pistols from wherever, there were reports of some with nails embedded in their seals from enterprising Europeans using nails for ammo.
I bought 5 of them because they were $35.00 apiece and looked like the James Bond Walther pistol.
No nails in mine, but they shot very poorly anyway.LOL

Yes there is a screw to remove before the endcap can unscrew.
Did you get a release date of that issue of that version HW70?