Tuning RWS Diana Target Problems

[gkenny]

Hi, I just joined this forum so this is my first post. It is in the form of a question, I hope my ignorance has not placed this in the incorrect place. Please correct me if I have.

I am a VERY senior citizen and I love airguns, especially my three favorites: a RWS Diana Model 34 in .177 caliber, a RWS Diana Model 48/52 in .22 caliber, and a Baikal Model MP46M in .177 caliber.

All three of these airguns are at least 10 years old.

The Baikal, with a BSA Red Dot sight is by far the most accurate so my questions here pertain only to the two Diana models.

I consider myself an average/decent shooter with many years of experience. The Diana models are both in excellent condition and carefully maintained.

My shooting 'range' consists of a large and safe, movable target box placed 25 yards from my second story window. I use the window sill with a hand made foam rubber 'U'-shaped rest to shoot from. It is very steady and I am able to consistently obtain 5-shot groups of about 1 inch, but only with the Baikal.

Last year I had the the model 48/52 trigger adjusted and the whole gun cleaned and checked by an expert. I also added a Hawke Airmax scope. The results were excellent! The trigger, even on this older gun, is the best I have ever used, even including the custom firearm pistols I used in competition in my youth. Using JSB Match Exact Jumbo Heavy Diabolo, 18.13 gr. .22 pellets, I was consistently able to hit the bullseye 1 1/4 inch 5 -shot groups at 25 to 30 yards, rested. I could clearly hear the loud sound of contact with the target.

The Diana Model 34 was not 'tuned' but exhibited similar results.

Of course, I was happy with these results for several months, but that was soon to change! The 48/52, using everything the same, pellets, weather, temperature, rest, soft grip on the gun, etc, gave 5 shots in a 3 inch group and 5 inches high! The model 34 acted the same, but NOT the Baikal, it always shoots the same way, almost perfect!

I am very familiar with the peculiar tendencies of a 'springer' gun, the preferred soft hold, the air temperature effect, scope damage and movement, but this completely ruined my day!

I checked my scope, it had not come loose and showed no damage. 

I re-sighted in my scope again, got it to the same position as mentioned above, again was happy with the results which were similar, but several days later, the gun was off line again!

Have you had similar experiences like this or have heard about similar cases?

Is there there any suggestions that you have that may help this situation?

Thank you for taking the time to read this and I apologize for the length of this post.

Stay safe my friend, regards, gkenny.

 

[DonC]

Have you cleaned the barrel? I use nylon Dewey Rod brushes for really fouled barrels. 

Next step would be check stock screws for torque. With interminent problems like yours, you probably should chronie the pellets.

Finally, maybe your spring needs replacing and/or lubes that might be affected by temperature changes. I really like synthetic compressor oil from AmsOil.. It temperature range is incredibly wide. 

Best of luck solving your dilemma. I know how frustrating interminent problems can be.

 

[gkenny]

Thank you DonC, I appreciate very much your reply, particularly since you replied so quickly! 

I have cleaned the barrel, but not recently and not with Dewey Rod brushes. I will order them and will use them as soon as I have them, sounds like a very good solution!

I have tightened the screws occasionally, they do come loose often, but since you have reminded me, would you suggest using Loctite on them this time?

I do not own a chronie, but I will consider buying one. Do you have a suggestion? The person who I mentioned who did work on my Diana, chronied the gun after his work, so I will have a good source for comparison.

A new spring was installed last year, by the same person, so maybe that is still OK. Is there a way to check this with out taking the gun apart, or would you think that the new spring is not the problem? There is no difference in the sound or smoothness when cocking the spring.

As for the oil, I do not have the oil that you suggest, I will get some right away. I have been using Cobalt synthetic air tool oil, is this similar enough?

Again, Don, thank you for understanding the frustration that this problem can cause. Old-Whats-Her-Name thanks you as well! Lol!

Regards, gkenny.

 

[JW652]

Your accuracy problems with the Dianas may be the result of using a dead rest. Springers are hold picky and most prefer to have your off hand under the forearm and a loose hold generally (no death grip) so that your body absorbs the recoil. Also, consistency in hold from shot to shot is very important. It may seem a little awkward at first, but usually helps tighten groups. Both of your rifles are capable of 1" accuracy much farther than 25 yds. Just a learning curve.

Enjoy those fine Dianas.

 

[gkenny]

Thank you JW652, that is very good advice!

I have heard of the picky hold preference of springers and have tried to follow them, but your information is very specific and I will try it after I clean both guns, probably tomorrow.

Thanks again, stay safe, regards, gkenny.

 

[270windude]

My bet is on the barrel. I only clean when accuracy changes. Also out of curiosity have you tried other pellets. For whatever reason I have seen a gun shoot pellet X well then seemingly overnight it prefers pellet Y. I always have JSB Exacts, HN FTTs and Crosman brown box heavies and lights on hand. 

 

[gkenny]

Hi 270windude, thank you for your input.

Yes, I have tried many other pellets, dozens of them, and the pellets mentioned, JSB Exact, shoot the most accurately in my Diana 48/52, however I have never considered that once the best pellet is arrived at, that that might change to a different pellet. I will have to check that out with another test.

Thank you, regards, gkenny.

 

[gkenny]

Hi, this is my first day with this forum and I have already had a lot of kind input to my question above, but I would like to ask about another topic, but I can not locate the 'New Topic' spot to click on and start a new topic. What am I doing wrong?

I want to know your opinion about using a Red Dot scope on my Diana 48/52 and Diana 34?

Thank you , regards, gkenny.

 

[Odoyle]

If all else fails try a different scope.

 

[gkenny]

Hi Odoyle, thank you for the suggestion.

What would you think of a Red Dot sight on these Dianas?

Have you had any special success with a certain make or style of scope on the Diana brand?

Regards, gkenny.

 

[thumper]

Those 48s are a pretty high powered springer and tend to be a little more rowdy on firing. Personally, I've never had any luck at all shooting a springer (especially a magnum) from a solid rest with any kind of consistency. 

Try rolling up a towel or something cushiony that the gun will slide on, and rest the gun on that at it's balance point. See if that helps. 

I'd also check the breech seal to make sure it isn't smashed. They tend to do funky things when that seal gets compressed or starts leaking. 

 

[gkenny]

Hi Thumper, I appreciate your input!

This will support your thoughts here, I just thought of it with your suggestions; Originally, I made a short, about 6 inches long, soft, thin foam U' shaped cradle to loosely fit the width of my stock and placed it on the window sill first, then the gun. This was fine, but then I made a much longer, thicker one, and now as I think of it, with your suggestion in mind, that is when my problems began!

Probably the larger one caused too tight a 'hold' on the gun and changed the point of impact.

I will go back to the old one and check it out.

Thanks again, regards, gkenny.

 

[DesertSilver]

The biggest thing I see is when the springer is held differently as such it recoils different causing the pellet to strike in a different place. I have a Diana 48 that I bought used in 1993. I've found that the first 10-15 pellets will not hit where they did the last time I shot until I've shot those first few shots. There is heat that is generated when you shoot a springer from the compression of the air. 

 

[Odoyle]

Hi Odoyle, thank you for the suggestion.

What would you think of a Red Dot sight on these Dianas?

Have you had any special success with a certain make or style of scope on the Diana brand?

Regards, gkenny.

Have never tried a red dot on a magnum Springer before and the Leupold EFR and Weaver V16 are the only scopes so far that never broke on any of my RWS magnum sidelevers. I did call Vortex anf they said their brand of scopes are magnum Springer capable anf the Crossfire2 with the adjustable objectives and BDC reticles are what I would try next and are less than half the price of the other scopes i used. 

 

[gkenny]

Thank you, Odoyle, again I appreciate your help and I am going to check on the scopes you mention here.

I have used Bushnell, Hawke, and UTC, but always run into accuracy problems.

BTW, I have photos of a pair of one piece hand made grips I made for the Baikal 46M. Do you think anyone here would be interested in seeing them?

If so, how do I send photos here and what part of this forum would be best used to post them?

Thanks again, regards, gkenny.

 

[Moe M.]

While I'm no expert and don't play one on TV I do have some experience with air guns a scopes, just reading a couple of posts and taking a quick guess doesn't guarantee a right answer, but in my opinion, if it were my problem I'd clear away any doubt in the ability of my scope to cope with the heavy recoil of that particular springer air rifle. 

I have five scopes in service on air rifles at the moment on four break barrels and a PCP rifle, I have two Hawk 2x7x32 AO scopes, one on a Nitro Piston .22, and one on a .22 PCP rifle, I have two UTG scopes, one 3x9x32 AO and one 3x9x40 AO, both on Nitro Piston high velocity rifles, and I also have a vintage RWS 3x9x40 AO that's been on quite a few air rifles.

I'm a big fan of Hawk scopes but I've found that they don't like heavy recoiling springer air rifles, they function better on gas rams than spring powered guns but not perfectly, I contacted Hawk scopes and the tech said that Hawk scopes are not springer rated and they don't encourage their use on springer type guns, another thing about Hawk scopes is their warrantee, they will honor their warrantees, but you have to jump through hoops and make sure you have the paper work to prove that you are the original owner and where and when you purchased the scope. UTG scopes on the other hand warrantees their scopes to be springer rated and have a no questions asked return policy, I've had issues with my Hawk scopes loosing zero on my springers, never on the PCP rifle, but I've never had any issues with my UTG scopes, as far as quality I still prefer Hawk scopes over UTG scopes, but when it comes to standing up to the punishment of heavy recoil air guns UTG takes the , prize, my RWS scope is in a class of it's own, but that kind of quality only comes at a much higher price point.

 

[gkenny]

While I'm no expert and don't play one on TV I do have some experience with air guns a scopes, just reading a couple of posts and taking a quick guess doesn't guarantee a right answer, but in my opinion, if it were my problem I'd clear away any doubt in the ability of my scope to cope with the heavy recoil of that particular springer air rifle. 

I have five scopes in service on air rifles at the moment on four break barrels and a PCP rifle, I have two Hawk 2x7x32 AO scopes, one on a Nitro Piston .22, and one on a .22 PCP rifle, I have two UTG scopes, one 3x9x32 AO and one 3x9x40 AO, both on Nitro Piston high velocity rifles, and I also have a vintage RWS 3x9x40 AO that's been on quite a few air rifles.

I'm a big fan of Hawk scopes but I've found that they don't like heavy recoiling springer air rifles, they function better on gas rams than spring powered guns but not perfectly, I contacted Hawk scopes and the tech said that Hawk scopes are not springer rated and they don't encourage their use on springer type guns, another thing about Hawk scopes is their warrantee, they will honor their warrantees, but you have to jump through hoops and make sure you have the paper work to prove that you are the original owner and where and when you purchased the scope. UTG scopes on the other hand warrantees their scopes to be springer rated and have a no questions asked return policy, I've had issues with my Hawk scopes loosing zero on my springers, never on the PCP rifle, but I've never had any issues with my UTG scopes, as far as quality I still prefer Hawk scopes over UTG scopes, but when it comes to standing up to the punishment of heavy recoil air guns UTG takes the , prize, my RWS scope is in a class of it's own, but that kind of quality only comes at a much higher price point.

"Thank you Homer, that is good information, I appreciate it!

I have decided to not use my Diana's for my purpose and have ordered an Air Venturi Avenger PCP with a compressor. They should be back on order by the end of the month. i will use my Hawke Airmax 3 to 9 on it .

Regards, gkenny."

 

[Mossonarock]

yeah, somedays I shoot tight groups. other days, I can't hit anything. I can be doing something different and not realize it. Consistency in shooting form can be difficult. Somedays, my eyes just won't focus well. There's probably something about your Baikal that suits you well and is why you are able to be so consistent with it. Your Dianas are powerful guns and can be a bit jumpy making accuracy difficult. They are good guns though. You could de-tune the guns a bit to make them less powerful and that can help you be more consistent and accurate with them. Putting a scope on a springer changes its recoil characteristics. Its not a bad idea to shoot them with open sights at 10m till you get familiar with them.

I've never had any luck with using any kind of foam rest. Rolled up towels work well. Most of my bench shooting is from a Caldwell tack driver. I turn it upside down and place the gun in the "slick" crotch. I don't use the "grippy" crotch the way the bag was designed.

 

[gkenny]

yeah, somedays I shoot tight groups. other days, I can't hit anything. I can be doing something different and not realize it. Consistency in shooting form can be difficult. Somedays, my eyes just won't focus well. There's probably something about your Baikal that suits you well and is why you are able to be so consistent with it. Your Dianas are powerful guns and can be a bit jumpy making accuracy difficult. They are good guns though. You could de-tune the guns a bit to make them less powerful and that can help you be more consistent and accurate with them. Putting a scope on a springer changes its recoil characteristics. Its not a bad idea to shoot them with open sights at 10m till you get familiar with them.

I've never had any luck with using any kind of foam rest. Rolled up towels work well. Most of my bench shooting is from a Caldwell tack driver. I turn it upside down and place the gun in the "slick" crotch. I don't use the "grippy" crotch the way the bag was designed.

Thank you very much Mossonarock, you have outlined my experiences perfectly!

I hope my Avenger will get me back to where I used to be with my Diana's!

Stay safe, regards, gkenny.

 

[uglymike]

I use an old hunting sock filled with a sack of the cheapest rice on the shelf @ the grocery store. Rest the rifle in the same place every time.