Safety is there for a reason HUBEN k1 DONT SHOOT YOURSELF LIKE MY FRIEND. (Pictures, there not to graphic)

[MAUMAU]

A hunter never walks with a rifle that has a round in the chamber.

Period.

There IS NO ADVANTAGE to carrying a locked and loaded weapon on safe in any situation except an active firefight. Even then the disadvantages often outweigh the advantages.

I have been very blessed in life and have hunted all over the world. I actively hunt dangerous game in Africa at least once a year and sometimes twice a year. If I were to take your advice about not having a round in the chamber I would have been dead long ago. An Elephant, Lion, leopard or Cape Buffalo are not going to wait patiently while you fumble a round into the chamber. You will either be mauled or stomped to death. It has happened to three friends of mine. Two recovered after long hospital stays and the other was killed on the scene.

With regards to not carrying a 'locked and loaded' weapon in a firefight you are again quite wrong. I was in active combat / operations for 22 months straight, and again, if I were to have taken your advice I would not have lasted a week.

 

[Sleestak]

That was one ugly foot before the accident!

agreed, shooting it was an improvement on the original

 

[Bedrock Bob]

sounds like a familiar argument in the CC world, some carry hot some carry with the chamber empty. Who am I to judge. Even the old cowboys carried their 6 shooters with the first chamber empty for safety, but today's technology/weapons have redundancy built into their safety. Most accidental discharges are user error. I can say an empty chamber was never involved.

Some handguns are designed to be carried with one under the hammer. Some even cocked (1911).

Some rifles are designed that way as well (AR15 for example).

Most hunting rifles are not designed to be carried on safe while cocked. (Remington 700 and Winchester 70 for example). The safety only prevents you from pulling the trigger. It does not block the fall of the firing pin. So a hard hit falling down can definitely cause one to fire.

It's not as risky as one under the hammer of an old single action. But still you shouldn't hunt with one under the hammer for exactly the same reasons.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

I have been very blessed in life and have hunted all over the world. I actively hunt dangerous game in Africa at least once a year and sometimes twice a year. If I were to take your advice about not having a round in the chamber I would have been dead long ago. An Elephant, Lion, leopard or Cape Buffalo are not going to wait patiently while you fumble a round into the chamber. You will either be mauled or stomped to death. It has happened to three friends of mine. Two recovered after long hospital stays and the other was killed on the scene.

With regards to not carrying a 'locked and loaded' weapon in a firefight you are again quite wrong. I was in active combat / operations for 22 months straight, and again, if I were to have taken your advice I would not have lasted a week.

Come on man. Get real.

I didn't say you shouldn't carry locked and loaded In a firefight. Nor did I suggest you shouldn't cock your weapon in a close hunt with dangerous game. That conflation is as ridiculous as comparing a cape buffalo hunt to a rabbit hunt.

Do you honestly not understand my posts?

Do you think a guy should carry around a cocked weapon when hunting rabbits with an airgun? The risks of being attacked by the rabbit outweigh the risks of shooting yourself in the foot?

...because that is why you hunted with your gun cocked and on safe when you hunted elephants wasn't it? And when you were in combat?

 

[WoodWelder]

Did he need to be picked up by a toe truck?

 

[Sleestak]

Come on man. Get real.

I didn't say you shouldn't carry locked and loaded In a firefight. Nor did I suggest you shouldn't cock your weapon in a close hunt with dangerous game. That conflation is as ridiculous as comparing a cape buffalo hunt to a rabbit hunt.

Do you honestly not understand my posts?

Do you think a guy should carry around a cocked weapon when hunting rabbits with an airgun? The risks of being attacked by the rabbit outweigh the risks of shooting yourself in the foot?

...because that is why you hunted with your gun cocked and on safe when you hunted elephants wasn't it? And when you were in combat?

So far you're the only one here that seems to feel that carrying a charged weapon is out of the ordinary and something that should never be done. Take that as you may.

 

[Sleestak]

Did he need to be picked up by a toe truck?

Dad-jokes

 

[Bedrock Bob]

While we're calling each other out please tell us about your vast big game and tactical experience too, since you seem to be the authority.

So far you're the only one here that seems to feel that carrying a charged weapon is out of the ordinary and something that should never be done. Take that as you may.

Do you disagree with my opinion?

Why?

It's a discussion. Not an argument. There won't be a "winner". My resume does not matter. Nor is my opinion any different than the other voices on this forum. I'm not asking you to agree with me. But if you feel the need to disagree you should offer some reasoning to support it.

I asked you to tell me why you feel the risk offsets the benefits. You can simply refute my opinions if you like. But making a salient point about why I am wrong would be a great way to further the discussion.

I have been very clear about my position and why. You insist I am wrong but don't offer anything to back that up.

No experienced hunter feels the need to chamber a round until a target is located and a shot is imminent. That is just basic hunting safety and common sense. If you feel this is wrong then please explain why. Otherwise we've said about as much as there is to say.

 

[Sleestak]

Do you disagree with my opinion?

Why?

It's a discussion. Not an argument. There won't be a "winner". Nor does my resume matter.

I asked you to tell me why you feel the risk offsets the benefits. You can argue with my opinions if you like. But making a salient point about why I am wrong would be a great way to further the discussion.

I have been very clear about my position and why. You insist that it's wrong.

Why?

No experienced hunter feels the need to chamber a round until a target is located and a shot is imminent. That is just basic hunting safety. If you feel this is wrong then please explain why. Otherwise we've said about as much as there is to say.

Really? you need to have it explained again when Blackdog did perfectly adequate job at describing why you might want to carry a loaded gun when hunting?

But since you're the only "experienced hunter" here, I guess we'll have to defer to you on the matter

Feel free to die on your hill....

 

[Bedrock Bob]

Really? you need to have it explained again when Blackdog did perfectly adequate job at describing why you might want to carry a loaded gun when hunting?

But since you're the only "experienced hunter" here, I guess we'll have to defer to you on the matter

Feel free to die on your hill....

The discussion wasn't about carrying a loaded gun.

To be clear. It was about carrying a rifle ready to fire and relying on the safety as you carry the gun hunting in the field as opposed to carrying on an empty chamber and cocking the rifle only when a target is identified.

If you believe that it's worth the small risk to get a split second shaved off a snap shot then take it. The choice is yours to make for you and those around you.

I'm not standing in judgment of you. I'm simply disagreeing with you.

 

[YetiusAmericanus]

 

[Scotay42]

Yep locked and loaded all day, carrying or hunting. I was always taught to count on the safety not working. The gun is always to be pointed away from any people or body parts and walk and move cautiouslyas you have a death stick in your hand. Climbimg down from a stand is different, but I always have a locked and loaded pistol on my side or chest, so i unchamber my rifle when climbing, but stalking and on my way to the stand, ready to rock.

 

[Moderator3]

Stop the fight, gentlemen. Difference of opinion can be talked about, insults and trolling will not be allowed.

 

[Peashooter]

I completely forgot to add in my first post.

TOEJAM.

 

[3Crows]

Some air rifles, side lever or bolt, if the lever or bolt is pulled back sufficiently a pellet can load (spring magazines) but then if your fingers slip from the bolt before the hammer catches the sear they will fire even with the safety on. A sear safety does not lock the hammer. I would like a cross hammer safety, something that can be engaged that would block the hammer from striking the exhaust valve poppet. Such a safety would also prevent unintended discharges from faulty trigger adjustment or sear damage.


Not to get to far into PBs but the Remington 700, one of the most popular bolt hunting rifles ever made uses a sear safety, the firing pin is not locked. This is quite common in numerous popular bolt rifles. The Mauser designs and others, my Kimber Mountain Ascent, there is a three postion safety on the bolt that locks the firing pin. Myself, right or wrong, unless a dangerous animal is about, would never carry a bolt rifle loaded. My Marlin 1895 lever guns have a hammer half cock position (exposed hammer) and there is (post 1983) a CBS (cross bolt safety) that prevents the hammer from being able to strike the firing pin. I will carry a lever rifle loaded with CBS engaged and hammer at half cock (safety). This feature possibly saved my brother when he was using a rope designed for the purposes to pull his Marlin 336 up to the tree stand, the rope slipped, the rifle hit a limb while pointed at him with enough force to shear the half cock notch but the firing pin was blocked by the CBS. I like the CBS and would love to have a CHS (cross hammer safety) for applicable air rifles. We cannot bring a bullet or pellet or slug back.

Edit to add, both me and my father and uncle soundly scolded my brother for attempting to pull a loaded rifle up into a tree stand. His excuse was his fingers were cold and he did not therefore unload the rifle. The best safety of all is the one that exists between the ears.

I know the fellow who sued Airforce after shooting himself in the foot. I forget the details except that it was his fault IMO. He was not fully familiar with the rifle and failed to understand how the mechanism worked. To repeat, the best safety is the one that exists between the ears.

These .22, .25 and .30 plus caliber air rifles are fully capable of killing or seriously wounding a human being.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

Most rifle safeties simply block the trigger from being pulled. They aren't safe if you drop them. Especially with minimal sear engagement. They are not designed to prevent a discharge from impact. They only prevent discharge from an inadvertent trigger pull.

Rifles and handguns that are designed to be carried safely with one in the chamber have safeties (or design characteristics) that block the firing mechanism so they can not discharge. Most military and defense weapons have safeties like this.

There are many safety mechanisms that work in different ways. They all have their quirks. They all have their intended uses. It would be wise to know exactly how your safety and rifle works before making any assumptions about its effectiveness in your situation.

For years the NRA hunter training taught that you never rely on the safety when carrying a rifle more than a short distance. The only safe rifle is one with an empty chamber. That's some solid advice if you spend much time carrying a hunting rifle around.

 

[coastal drifter]

I believe we should be as safe as possible when handling weapons, most ranges I've been to don't allow a firearm to be moved from the shooting line loaded. Sure if you're a safari hunter in Africa hunting dangerous game you might want to keep a weapon on the ready but most of us on this forum aren't that kind of hunter. a pellet gun probably won't do you much good if you run into a grizzly bear either. We are on an airgun site so I believe the conversation should revolve around them. If you're comfortable carrying your (airgun) around in the woods cocked and loaded more power to ya, and though I'm sure there are some here with vastly more hunting experience than me, I've never had an opportunity to shoot an animal where I didn't have time to cock my weapon. Even professionals have accedents so I do all I can to mitigate the risks to include not carrying a chambered round when possible. As Forest Gump would say, "thats all I got to say about that.

 

[3Crows]

One of the built in issues with air guns is the inability to remove a pellet or slug once loaded into the breach. Sure, it can be decocked but there is still a pellet in there to forget about or to double feed. The only way to get the pellet out is to waste it or to use a rod down the barrel, at which point the bolt or lever is pulled back and the hammer has engaged the sear, so we now have a cocked and loaded rifle with a rod going down the bore, safety on or not. Somethings are just what they are and we just have to apply common sense to our particular air rifles to prevent an unintended discharge.

Edit to add, I have seen people rest the muzzle of their rifle on their boot toe. This to keep the barrel from going into the ground and being blocked. I think there is probably a better way to rest a rifle than with the muzzle on my boot toe.

 

[Scotay42]

Most rifle safeties simply block the trigger from being pulled. They aren't safe if you drop them. Especially with minimal sear engagement. They are not designed to prevent a discharge from impact. They only prevent discharge from an inadvertent trigger pull.

Rifles and handguns that are designed to be carried safely with one in the chamber have safeties (or design characteristics) that block the firing mechanism so they can not discharge. Most military and defense weapons have safeties like this.

There are many safety mechanisms that work in different ways. They all have their quirks. They all have their intended uses. It would be wise to know exactly how your safety and rifle works before making any assumptions about its effectiveness in your situation.

For years the NRA hunter training taught that you never rely on the safety when carrying a rifle more than a short distance. The only safe rifle is one with an empty chamber. That's some solid advice if you spend much time carrying a hunting rifle around.

Empty chamber gets you killed in wild boar country. Never point the business end at anything you want to keep.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

Some of my spring piston pellet rifles can be decocked. Others can't.

I shoot a Cometa 400 that can be decocked without firing (My HW97k can't). Neither rifle is safe to carry cocked with the safety engaged.

The Cometa's safety design is more robust than the HW but it's located in a spot it is easily disengaged. It has no spring or detent. It simply slides in place under the piston release. Its a good safety but I don't rely on it. I decock the rifle if I don't shoot. It's a gas ram designed to remain cocked but the limitations of the safety make doing that a risk. You can disengage the safety just by picking the gun up or sliding it across a coat sleeve.

You have to shoot the HW if you cock it. There just isn't another way. It's designed to be shot immediately after firing. The safety was designed to prevent an inadvertent trigger pull. It is not designed to be cocked and carried. It is designed as a target rifle.

Most good triggers can be set too light to safely carry. Many will fire if you hit one hard on the butt. Many will fire with the safety engaged. It depends on the trigger and safety mechanism.

Some hunts involve a short walk in the woods and a wait. The risks of carrying a hot gun are greatly minimized. Many guys do it all their lives and have no issues. Others have accidental discharges.

Other hunts involve miles of walking in rough country. Hours in and out of a vehicle off road. Mule or horse rides into the wilderness. Family hunts with young inexperienced hunters. Guided or outfitted hunts with strict safety expectations. In these cases the risks and consequences of an accident go way up. Always keeping an empty chamber until you are ready to fire is the standard practice for any of these situations.