FX Same Strange Problem With 2 Different FX Impact M3 1st Stage Regulators

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TheDaleness

TheDaleness

Member
Dec 15, 2022
97
65
Santa Barbara, CA, United States
UPDATE:
FX got back to me about this issue. Their response:

"Honestly not sure why the regulators are giving you that many problems, even after rebuilding.
The 1st regulator stack should be "(( )) (( )) (( ))" with 12 washers.
19696-M (original brass piston) is not compatible with the 1st regulator, but 20858 (newest brass piston) is compatible.
Best Regards,
Kayla"

So when I ordered the brass pistons to replace the delrin ones, instead of sending me 20858 (newest brass piston), they accidentally sent me the ones that are incompatible with he 1st reg (19696-M).
As for the washer stack, (( )) (( )) (( )) is how FX is doing it now.

I'll give an update when the right brass pistons arrive and I install, test.


ORIGINAL POST:

From day one, the 1st stage reg on my Impact M3 was slow to recover and slow to respond or non-responisve to changes in pressure setting. One day it wouldn’t fill past 140 bar, even though it had been set to 190 bar. I degassed the gun turned the reg screw 1/4 turn out, refilled the gun, and it still read 140 bar. I turned it another 1/4th turn - still read 140.

The 2nd reg was set to 150 bar, so it read the same as the 1st: 140 bar. The bottle pressure read 220 bar. I tried a different 1st reg gauge to confirm that it wasn’t a problem with the gauge. Swapped out the stock wika with a Sekhmet. Still read 140 bar on both the 1st and 2nd regs.

Next I took the 1st reg apart and did these things:
  • inspected all the surfaces on the delrin piston and inside the reg with magnification, looking for anything irregular. Nothing found. Everything looked good.
  • replaced all o-rings
  • deburred and polished the washers (used 3M Zona 80-4 micron cloths for all polishing)
  • polished the piston
  • wiped everything clean
  • lightly lubed o-rings
  • Reassembled, keeping the washer stack the same: 3 stacks of 4 (())(())(())

I backed the screw out 2.25 turns since I knew this should bring me to around 190 bar based on how the reg performed in the past.
Filled tank to 220 bar. Now the 1st reg wouldn’t fill past 110 bar. Backed the reg screw out to 2.5 turns. Still wouldn’t fill past 110 bar. So now things are worse.

I contacted Utah Air, where I purchased the gun. They said it sounded like a bad reg so they sent me a replacement.

I installed the new reg and it wouldn’t fill past 130 bar. At 2 turns out on the reg screw, 2.25, and 2.5, it still read 130 bar. 2nd reg gauge also read 130 bar. I removed the reg and repeated the above reg inspecting and polishing process. Found no visible issues, and the cleaning/rebuilding resulted in no change.

I ordered a brass piston from FX. Installed the brass piston in the original reg. The reg wouldn’t fill past 90 bar. Installed the brass piston in the replacement reg. It wouldn’t fill past 5 bar. Very confused.

Thinking maybe I received 2 defective FX regs, I ordered a Huma 1st reg. It works perfectly. When I fill the gun the 1st reg gauge goes to the set pressure 3x fasted than the FX reg did when it was sort of working. After a shot it recovers about 3x faster. The needle goes right to the set pressure and stays there. No creeping up or down in pressure like the FX reg would.

I’m glad that the Huma is working, but I’m still curious what could be going wrong with the two FX regs.

Any ideas what could be causing the specific symptoms described above?
 
Last edited:
TheDaleness said:
From day one, the 1st stage reg on my Impact M3 was slow to recover and slow to respond or non-responisve to changes in pressure setting. One day it wouldn’t fill past 140 bar, even though it had been set to 190 bar. I degassed the gun turned the reg screw 1/4 turn out, refilled the gun, and it still read 140 bar. I turned it another 1/4th turn - still read 140.

The 2nd reg was set to 150 bar, so it read the same as the 1st: 140 bar. The bottle pressure read 220 bar. I tried a different 1st reg gauge to confirm that it wasn’t a problem with the gauge. Swapped out the stock wika with a Sekhmet. Still read 140 bar on both the 1st and 2nd regs.

Next I took the 1st reg apart and did these things:
  • inspected all the surfaces on the delrin piston and inside the reg with magnification, looking for anything irregular. Nothing found. Everything looked good.
  • replaced all o-rings
  • deburred and polished the washers (used 3M Zona 80-4 micron cloths for all polishing)
  • polished the piston
  • wiped everything clean
  • lightly lubed o-rings
  • Reassembled, keeping the washer stack the same: 3 stacks of 4 (())(())(())

I backed the screw out 2.25 turns since I knew this should bring me to around 190 bar based on how the reg performed in the past.
Filled tank to 220 bar. Now the 1st reg wouldn’t fill past 110 bar. Backed the reg screw out to 2.5 turns. Still wouldn’t fill past 110 bar. So now things are worse.

I contacted Utah Air, where I purchased the gun. They said it sounded like a bad reg so they sent me a replacement.

I installed the new reg and it wouldn’t fill past 130 bar. At 2 turns out on the reg screw, 2.25, and 2.5, it still read 130 bar. 2nd reg gauge also read 130 bar. I removed the reg and repeated the above reg inspecting and polishing process. Found no visible issues, and the cleaning/rebuilding resulted in no change.

I ordered a brass piston from FX. Installed the brass piston in the original reg. The reg wouldn’t fill past 90 bar. Installed the brass piston in the replacement reg. It wouldn’t fill past 5 bar. Very confused.

Thinking maybe I received 2 defective FX regs, I ordered a Huma 1st reg. It works perfectly. When I fill the gun the 1st reg gauge goes to the set pressure 3x fasted than the FX reg did when it was sort of working. After a shot it recovers about 3x faster. The needle goes right to the set pressure and stays there. No creeping up or down in pressure like the FX reg would.

I’m glad that the Huma is working, but I’m still curious what could be going wrong with the two FX regs.

Any ideas what could be causing the specific symptoms described above?
Click to expand...
Two new M3 came to me for service. The problem was same. Both guns' 1st regulator was not working properly.

I did all that you have done. But of no use.

Then I contacted Frederick and Johan as I don't have any FX dealer in my country.

They very generously sent me two new regulators with brass pistons.

I installed both new regulators in both M3 and both started working great.

I have experienced that sometimes if 2nd regulator has some problems, it is reflected in 1st regulator behaviour and vice versa.

Sorry to know that in your case new FX regs didn't help.

But Huma regulator fixed the problem that shows that perhaps the replacement regulator was also bad.

I use FX and convince people to use FX mostly because of their unprecedented after sale support even in my country.

FX products are always innovative too.

Thank you Frederick.
 
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I had the same problems with my M3....I bought the Saber Tactical 1st reg delete fitting and got rid of the first reg. It was the best thing I've done so far to my M3...I've got the second reg. set to 115 bar with a 700mm barrel shooting JSB 33.95's at 920fps it shoots hole for hole at 50 yards and less than one inch groups at 100 yards and it does it consistently.....I have tested it for several weeks, letting it sit for a week at a time without being shot and the first shot is dead center every time now. It is the most accurate air rifle I own and it is a dedicated pellet rifle and I have no desire to try and shoot slugs with it...:)
 
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Airgunmann said:
I don't recall seeing the washers stacked that way hmmm I've seen these two different stacks ()()()()()(. ()()()()()). But not that maybe they changed it idk
Click to expand...
I agree, I can't imagine anything other than )()()()()() or ()()()()()(, having them cupped would , heck not a clue but I doubt it's right. Thing is if two guns started acting weird at exactly the same time....makes it even stranger.
 
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mubhaur said:
Two new M3 came to me for service. The problem was same. Both guns' 1st regulator was not working properly.

I did all that you have done. But of no use.

Then I contacted Frederick and Johan as I don't have any FX dealer in my country.

They very generously sent me two new regulators with brass pistons.

I installed both new regulators in both M3 and both started working great.

I have experienced that sometimes if 2nd regulator has some problems, it is reflected in 1st regulator behaviour and vice versa.

Sorry to know that in your case new FX regs didn't help.

But Huma regulator fixed the problem that shows that perhaps the replacement regulator was also bad.

I use FX and convince people to use FX mostly because of their unprecedented after sale support even in my country.

FX products are always innovative too.

Thank you Frederick.
Click to expand...
Thanks mubhaur. Very helpful to know.
 
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HogKiller said:
I agree, I can't imagine anything other than )()()()()() or ()()()()()(, having them cupped would , heck not a clue but I doubt it's right. Thing is if two guns started acting weird at exactly the same time....makes it even stranger.
Click to expand...
I'll try changing the stack orientation to see if that makes a difference. This guy is someone I came across who made a comment about using 3 stacks of 4 washers. For me both regs came this way already. Not sure why.
 
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TheDaleness said:
I'll try changing the stack orientation to see if that makes a difference. This guy is someone I came across who made a comment about using 3 stacks of 4 washers. For me both regs came this way already. Not sure why.
Click to expand...
Well, my feeling is more spring pressure but that's a dumb way to do it, easier to use heavier springs, it really doesn't take much, something in the range of .53mm average is more than enough, it takes a lot of washers to get that though, 117 bar minimum to about 160 bar. It's the high end of the tolerances of the washers so you need to buy quite a few bags to get there.
 
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UPDATE:
FX got back to me about this issue. Their response:

"Honestly not sure why the regulators are giving you that many problems, even after rebuilding.
The 1st regulator stack should be "(( )) (( )) (( ))" with 12 washers.
19696-M (original brass piston) is not compatible with the 1st regulator, but 20858 (newest brass piston) is compatible.
Best Regards,
Kayla"

So when I ordered the brass pistons to replace the delrin ones, instead of sending me 20858 (newest brass piston), they accidentally sent me the ones that are incompatible with he 1st reg (19696-M).
As for the washer stack, (( )) (( )) (( )) is how FX is doing it now.

I'll give an update when the right brass pistons arrive and I install, test.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mubhaur and oledawg
Upvote 0
TheDaleness said:
UPDATE:
FX got back to me about this issue. Their response:

"Honestly not sure why the regulators are giving you that many problems, even after rebuilding.
The 1st regulator stack should be "(( )) (( )) (( ))" with 12 washers.
19696-M (original brass piston) is not compatible with the 1st regulator, but 20858 (newest brass piston) is compatible.
Best Regards,
Kayla"

So when I ordered the brass pistons to replace the delrin ones, instead of sending me 20858 (newest brass piston), they accidentally sent me the ones that are incompatible with he 1st reg (19696-M).
As for the washer stack, (( )) (( )) (( )) is how FX is doing it now.

I'll give an update when the right brass pistons arrive and I install, test.


ORIGINAL POST:

From day one, the 1st stage reg on my Impact M3 was slow to recover and slow to respond or non-responisve to changes in pressure setting. One day it wouldn’t fill past 140 bar, even though it had been set to 190 bar. I degassed the gun turned the reg screw 1/4 turn out, refilled the gun, and it still read 140 bar. I turned it another 1/4th turn - still read 140.

The 2nd reg was set to 150 bar, so it read the same as the 1st: 140 bar. The bottle pressure read 220 bar. I tried a different 1st reg gauge to confirm that it wasn’t a problem with the gauge. Swapped out the stock wika with a Sekhmet. Still read 140 bar on both the 1st and 2nd regs.

Next I took the 1st reg apart and did these things:
  • inspected all the surfaces on the delrin piston and inside the reg with magnification, looking for anything irregular. Nothing found. Everything looked good.
  • replaced all o-rings
  • deburred and polished the washers (used 3M Zona 80-4 micron cloths for all polishing)
  • polished the piston
  • wiped everything clean
  • lightly lubed o-rings
  • Reassembled, keeping the washer stack the same: 3 stacks of 4 (())(())(())

I backed the screw out 2.25 turns since I knew this should bring me to around 190 bar based on how the reg performed in the past.
Filled tank to 220 bar. Now the 1st reg wouldn’t fill past 110 bar. Backed the reg screw out to 2.5 turns. Still wouldn’t fill past 110 bar. So now things are worse.

I contacted Utah Air, where I purchased the gun. They said it sounded like a bad reg so they sent me a replacement.

I installed the new reg and it wouldn’t fill past 130 bar. At 2 turns out on the reg screw, 2.25, and 2.5, it still read 130 bar. 2nd reg gauge also read 130 bar. I removed the reg and repeated the above reg inspecting and polishing process. Found no visible issues, and the cleaning/rebuilding resulted in no change.

I ordered a brass piston from FX. Installed the brass piston in the original reg. The reg wouldn’t fill past 90 bar. Installed the brass piston in the replacement reg. It wouldn’t fill past 5 bar. Very confused.

Thinking maybe I received 2 defective FX regs, I ordered a Huma 1st reg. It works perfectly. When I fill the gun the 1st reg gauge goes to the set pressure 3x fasted than the FX reg did when it was sort of working. After a shot it recovers about 3x faster. The needle goes right to the set pressure and stays there. No creeping up or down in pressure like the FX reg would.

I’m glad that the Huma is working, but I’m still curious what could be going wrong with the two FX regs.

Any ideas what could be causing the specific symptoms described above?
Click to expand...
And the fx dealer in Indonesia also sell 19696-M... Why are they selling it if it is not compatible? This 1st regulator creep make me confused alot... Already rebuilding the regulator many Times and change the piston (of course with the part no 19696 which is just find out today from the forum it is not compatible) so what should i do now?? The creep is always there 30 bar!!
 
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radjabatak said:
And the fx dealer in Indonesia also sell 19696-M... Why are they selling it if it is not compatible? This 1st regulator creep make me confused alot... Already rebuilding the regulator many Times and change the piston (of course with the part no 19696 which is just find out today from the forum it is not compatible) so what should i do now?? The creep is always there 30 bar!!
Click to expand...
First I'd try contacting the retailer that you purchased the gun from and ask if they can get you the brass piston that's compatible with the 1st reg: Part 20858.
But that may not fix the creep.

If you're unable to get the correct piston, then I would order the 1st reg made by Huma Air. That's what I did and it is working extremely well. I was not able to get the FX 1st reg to recover as quickly as I wanted. The Huma reg is expensive but for me it was well worth it. I spent so many hours trying to get the FX regs to work. I'm sure that I got 2 lemons (defective 1st regs). And I wasn't going to spend even more money on a 3rd one.

https://www.huma-air.com/FX-Impact-M3-First-Stage-Tuning-Regulator-by-Huma-Air

Huma's customer service is excellent. If you have any issues they will take care of it right away.
 
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