SCBA tanks fire dangers?

[BlackICE]

Anyone have any concerns about having large SCBA tanks inside their homes? If their is a home fire their is a chance they will explode.

This is the answer I got from Chatgpt.

Does an scba tank become a bomb if left full inside a fire?

What Happens When an SCBA Tank is Exposed to Fire?​

1. Heat Exposure:
   • Expansion of Compressed Air: When exposed to heat from a fire, the air inside the tank expands. Since the tank is designed to hold air at a very high pressure, the expanding air significantly increases the internal pressure.
   • Material Weakening: The intense heat can weaken the structural integrity of the tank's material, making it more prone to failure.
2. Pressure Increase:
   • Exceeding Tank's Pressure Limits: As the internal pressure rises due to the heat, it can exceed the tank’s rated pressure limit. If the pressure gets too high, the tank may rupture or explode.
3. Potential Explosion:
   • Catastrophic Failure: If the tank’s pressure relief valve (if present) fails or is not adequate to vent the excessive pressure quickly enough, the tank can burst violently. This can cause a powerful explosion, with shrapnel and a shockwave capable of causing serious injury or death.

Safety Features in SCBA Tanks:​

• Pressure Relief Valve: Some SCBA tanks are equipped with a pressure relief valve that is designed to vent the tank if the internal pressure becomes too high. However, if the tank is exposed to very high temperatures, the valve may not be able to release the pressure quickly enough to prevent an explosion.

Conclusion:​

An SCBA tank left full inside a fire can indeed become a bomb, posing a significant risk of explosion. Firefighters and emergency responders are trained to be aware of this danger and typically take measures to avoid leaving SCBA tanks in high-temperature environments such as fires. The combination of high internal pressure and heat exposure can lead to catastrophic failure of the tank, with potentially lethal consequences.


Yes, there have been incidents where SCBA (Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus) tanks have exploded or ruptured due to exposure to extreme heat in a fire, leading to injury or death of firefighters. These incidents are rare but can occur under specific circumstances.

### Documented Incidents:
1. **New York City, 1994:**
- A notable incident occurred in 1994 in New York City where an SCBA tank exploded inside a burning building. The firefighter was killed as a result of the explosion. The intense heat weakened the tank, and it ultimately ruptured, causing fatal injuries.

2. **Philadelphia, 1991:**
- In Philadelphia, a firefighter was severely injured when his SCBA tank ruptured while he was inside a burning structure. The tank's failure was attributed to exposure to extreme temperatures that weakened the tank’s structural integrity.

### Contributing Factors:
- **Extreme Heat:** Prolonged exposure to temperatures well beyond the design limits of SCBA tanks can lead to a catastrophic failure.
- **Structural Weakening:** As SCBA tanks are exposed to heat, the materials (metal or composite fibers) may degrade, increasing the risk of rupture.
- **Pressure Build-up:** Even with pressure relief valves, rapid and extreme temperature increases may overwhelm the safety mechanisms of the tank.

### Safety Measures:
- **Regular Inspections:** SCBA tanks are subject to strict inspection and maintenance protocols to ensure their safety and reliability.
- **Training:** Firefighters are trained to recognize the dangers of heat exposure to their equipment, and to avoid situations where SCBA tanks could be compromised by fire.
- **Standards and Design:** Modern SCBA tanks are designed with multiple safety features, including pressure relief valves, to reduce the risk of explosions. However, no system is entirely foolproof under extreme conditions.

### Conclusion:
While incidents involving SCBA tanks exploding in fires are relatively rare, they have happened, and the consequences can be severe. Fire departments around the world take these risks seriously and implement rigorous safety protocols to protect firefighters. These incidents underscore the importance of ongoing training, equipment maintenance, and adherence to safety procedures in firefighting operations.

 

[grackleblast]

SCBA tanks as well as other high pressure vessels have burst disc for this very reason. On a 4500 psi rated unit , the burst disc is designed to rupture at 7500 psi which will release all air safely . These tanks are designed to be used in hazardous conditions day after day. They are purposely overbuilt .

 

[Shinyknight]

People think these cf tanks will become bomb and kaboom. It's more likely the burst disc goes off and leak all pressure b4 you even get a kaboom. Mythbuster did a similar test to see if fire extinguisher will explode if thrown in a fire. It never did. The safety release all the pressure when it get to a certain point. It will never explode. The only way is to take all burst disc out and put plugs in and then toss in the fire.

 

[BlackICE]

Highly unlikely but according to Chatgpt it happen twice, 1991, and 1994.

### Documented Incidents:
1. **New York City, 1994:**
- A notable incident occurred in 1994 in New York City where an SCBA tank exploded inside a burning building. The firefighter was killed as a result of the explosion. The intense heat weakened the tank, and it ultimately ruptured, causing fatal injuries.

2. **Philadelphia, 1991:**
- In Philadelphia, a firefighter was severely injured when his SCBA tank ruptured while he was inside a burning structure. The tank's failure was attributed to exposure to extreme temperatures that weakened the tank’s structural integrity.

 

[Ezana4CE]

From things that I've read, carbon fiber SCBA tanks can fail catastrophically, but I don't think it is close to common. I have heard a propane tank explode in a house fire from inside my home. It's what alerted me to the fire in the first place. It's a very noticeable explosion at a distance and sounds a lot different from a transformer explosion. A high pressure air cylinder exploding may sound somewhat similar (or louder, I really don't know) considering that it is compressed at a much higher rate as well as being a source of fuel for an oxygen-hungry, burning, house fire. I don't know how these two different gasses compare in terms of danger under the stated circumstances, but after hearing what I heard, I wouldn't want to be the guy to find out personally.

It may be a good idea to consider where in your home you store a carbon fiber SCBA tank and in the event of a fire for any resident to be able to communicate to firefighters that HPA tank or tanks are inside as well as their location as well as your stowed PCPs. Seeing firefighters go in wearing SCBA setups shows me that carbon fiber SCBA tanks can take being exposed to high heat for incremental timeframes without failing catastrophically. Interesting topic that gives us things to think about. @BlackICE

An additional source discussing SCBA failures in firefighting https://www.hsdl.org/c/view?docid=487646 (this link will prompt the report to download to your computer to read it) p.3 begins to provide anecdotal evidence of SCBA tank failures in fire fighting and circumstances surrounding them. Failure due to prior SCBA tank exposure to a corrosive metal cleaning agent was an interesting case.

As for the question of: at what temps does an aluminum carbon fiber SCBA tank become compromised? Here's what one SCBA tank manufacturer has to say.

source: https://www.luxfercylinders.com/support-item/temperature-exposure/

 

[CharlieF]

If you really believe this is a hazard, don't buy one. I like mine just fine and the possibility that a fire could occur and that that fire would cause my SCBA to explode is about the same as a meteor might hit my house.

 

[Gerry52]

SCBA tanks were DESIGNED for firefighters safety, knowing they'd be subjected high heat & other abusive conditions. The carbon fiber wrap & epoxy resin coating are meant to reinforce metal tank & minimize the effects of "shrapnel" should they fail. Burst disc is a million times more likely to relieve pressure than tank bursting. You are statistically MORE likely to kill yourself with your own PCP than have a tank do it! Everyday driving of your car is WAY more dangerous than what COULD happen with your SCBA. CAN it burst? Yes, but is it likely, NO! BTW, please don't refer us to the hydrotesting video of the SCBA exploding! THAT was done INTENTIONALLY!

 

[JimD]

I don't store my SCBA tank under my bed or sleep with it. I think a firefighter going into a burning building with the tank on their back is in a WHOLE lot more risk than I will ever be. They do it all the time. I think it could catastrophically fail in a fire but I would be so far away from it if it did I am sure it will not affect me. I have ammo for powder burners much closer to me and it would be affected by a fire before my SCBA tank is. That is probably more of a risk. The fire itself will hurt you so the only sensible thing to do is get away from it. If you do that, the other things the fire may damage are not going to be a threat.

 

[grackleblast]

The industry thrives on various misconceptions and dangers . It compels folks to be wary of the many dangers with high pressure air. And there are , for instance some off shore fittings and hoses are not up to the tasks of 4500 psi . I worry more about a fitting or hose failing than my tanks. In fact , I use 21 year old tanks for my fill setup and have every confidence in their safety and construction. If I was in the business of selling new tanks every several years.........No , I couldn't look someone straight in the face and say "WOW , that's a time bomb just waiting to take you out".............
These are choices we must all make and accept responsibility. I know I'm on a rant here , but , I think that there are more reasonable options available.

My tanks................... DOB 2003

 

[AlanMcD]

The industry thrives on various misconceptions and dangers . It compels folks to be wary of the many dangers with high pressure air. And there are , for instance some off shore fittings and hoses are not up to the tasks of 4500 psi . I worry more about a fitting or hose failing than my tanks. In fact , I use 21 year old tanks for my fill setup and have every confidence in their safety and construction. If I was in the business of selling new tanks every several years.........No , I couldn't look someone straight in the face and say "WOW , that's a time bomb just waiting to take you out".............
These are choices we must all make and accept responsibility. I know I'm on a rant here , but , I think that there are more reasonable options available.

My tanks................... DOB 2003

View attachment 489012

Those tanks look pristine. If I knew where they came from, and that they had been fed dry air their whole life, I would have no issues using them either . . .

 

[JimD]

My tank is an expired fireman's tank, a Scott. It has no visible damage to the carbon fiber and I use it with confidence. I am very convinced that it will leak if it ever fails. I see zero risk it will explode.

If I ever have a fire in my home I will have lots more to worry about of more significance than my air tank. I have a propane line in the crawl space made of soft copper. If it gets damaged the fire would get a lot worse. I have a car with a gas tank, a generator with it's small tank, and a pressure washer with a tank in the garage. That gasoline would really feed a fire and soft "rubber" gas lines would not take much heat to let loose. My house is wood framed so it will burn and the furnishings have lots of synthetic material in them which will give off dangerous fumes. My only reasonable course of action will be to get out, call the fire department, and hope that insurance takes care of at least most of the loss. Stated another way, I'd rather have an air tank let loose than a gas tank or propane line.

 

[BlackICE]

My tank is an expired fireman's tank, a Scott. It has no visible damage to the carbon fiber and I use it with confidence. I am very convinced that it will leak if it ever fails. I see zero risk it will explode.

If I ever have a fire in my home I will have lots more to worry about of more significance than my air tank. I have a propane line in the crawl space made of soft copper. If it gets damaged the fire would get a lot worse. I have a car with a gas tank, a generator with it's small tank, and a pressure washer with a tank in the garage. That gasoline would really feed a fire and soft "rubber" gas lines would not take much heat to let loose. My house is wood framed so it will burn and the furnishings have lots of synthetic material in them which will give off dangerous fumes. My only reasonable course of action will be to get out, call the fire department, and hope that insurance takes care of at least most of the loss. Stated another way, I'd rather have an air tank let loose than a gas tank or propane line.

Very good points. If a fire gets so bad as to heat a tank fast enough so that the burst disk won't work you have bigger problems and should be far away long before that happens.