Scope doesn't hold zero on certain guns only?

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Sqwirl57

Sqwirl57

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Apr 13, 2020
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I have a Sidewinder 30 that holds zero absolutely fine on my 17fpe .22 97K or any sub 13fpe gun in my safe. Put that same scope and mount combo on my 16fpe HW95 or a 19fpe D56 and the recoil throws shotgun groups. I know the D56 is a scope killer but my question is this: a scope can go bad to the point where it just won't work on heavy recoiling guns but still working fine on the more docile ones? I haven't run into this before.
 
rangur1 said:
I’m assuming these are all break barrels. Maybe I’m not getting the jist of this , but your shotgun pattern from a higher recoil gun tells me the hold isn’t correct. Now I’m sure you know how to shoot your guns, but how is the scope causing the increasing spread? What’s your theory?
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I moved a known good scope to the heavier recoiling guns and I'm blowing out the bullseye on my target. More to my theory in the comment above
 
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rangur1 said:
I’m assuming these are all break barrels. Maybe I’m not getting the jist of this , but your shotgun pattern from a higher recoil gun tells me the hold isn’t correct. Now I’m sure you know how to shoot your guns, but how is the scope causing the increasing spread? What’s your theory?
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Well, I have one that stays just fine, but every once in a while will jump poa-poi. I have to re zero the scope. They iit goes fine and it will then jump I shoot from a very standardized position which is very repeatable. I have the bases that lock into the top of the retaining hole so it is not moving. When I move it to my rimfire tit holds and never jumps. I hold in a way that is very structured and I do not change things quickly and without good data. For example.

 
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Sqwirlfugger57 said:
I moved a known good scope to the heavier recoiling guns and I'm blowing out the bullseye on my target. More to my theory in the comment above
Click to expand...
Ok, so if I understand this correctly. the scope in question is having it's zero / POI shift after each shot on this beefy break barrel gun. This can happen especially when the scope may contain rubber or other non metal internals which will flex under stress. I see the solution as being to use the scope in question only on the lighter recoil guns. Use a beefier scope with possibly I'm not sure, but I believe it's the eagle vision flex type mount that has a spring system in it to absorb the recoil of the gun to help keep the scope intact. That's all I have for suggestions as I'm not a break barrel guy.
 
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I may be wrong, but I don't think there are many/any? reputable scope manufacturers who even designate ANY of their scopes as "springer" rated anymore.

As I said, I may be wrong. However, the last time I checked the only "springer" rated scopes were all lower end junk, but there are a lot of folks who love those scopes... (chuckle)

And most people should know that even a high end scope can be destroyed by a springer. Especially a "magnum" springer.

The only "quote" I found about Hawke scopes and springers was not about the sidewinder 30, but Hawke did not recommend the scope (forget the model) for any springer over ~12fpe.

I don't think Hawke designates ANY of their scopes today as "springer" rated. Of course, I could be wrong...
 
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BackStop said:
I may be wrong, but I don't think there are many/any? reputable scope manufacturers who even designate ANY of their scopes as "springer" rated anymore.

As I said, I may be wrong. However, the last time I checked the only "springer" rated scopes were all lower end junk, but there are a lot of folks who love those scopes... (chuckle)

And most people should know that even a high end scope can be destroyed by a springer. Especially a "magnum" springer.

The only "quote" I found about Hawke scopes and springers was not about the sidewinder 30, but Hawke did not recommend the scope (forget the model) for any springer over ~12fpe.

I don't think Hawke designates ANY of their scopes today as "springer" rated. Of course, I could be wrong...
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You're thinking of the Vantage line and they do seem to work well on most guns assuming you have the etched reticle version. The Sidewinder on the other hand is supposed to be fully springer rated. My plan is exactly what you said though. I bought it to sit on my 97K and that is back where it sits until it goes completely catastrophic.
 
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Here is what Vortex says.

Chat started: 2022-08-16 01:55 PM UTC

(01:55:18 PM) Dale R Pietrzak: I have a Diamondback 6-24x50mm on my 22lr rig. I really like it. Can I run this scope on my Air Arms TX200 sping powered air rifle?
(01:55:26 PM) *** Scott H. joined the chat ***
(01:55:29 PM) Scott H.: Hi Dale
(01:55:48 PM) Scott H.: You certainly can run that scope on your springer.
(01:56:01 PM) Dale R Pietrzak: Excellent!
(01:56:10 PM) Scott H.: All of our scopes are rated from srpingers to .50 bmg and beyond.
(01:56:42 PM) Dale R Pietrzak: 😀 Have a great day!
(01:57:05 PM) Scott H.: You too! Take care.
 
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My guess is that the elevation tube is floating. I also have two HW97 rifles and I know that when I mounted optically centered scopes on them right out of the box they were only one to one and a half inch low at 25 yards. So a 97 requires very little scope adjustment to sight in.
Now take that same scope and put it on a Diana 350 while optically centered and it can be as much as one foot low at 10 yards and miss the 4 foot target completely at 25 yards. So you crank it up close to the max elevation and the elevation tube starts floating. Back it back down and it works fine. I have even had in the past 2000 dollar name brand PCP rifles that were manufactured with the barrel so crooked I had to use adjustable rings on them. That 350 was an extreme case, most are not that bad, however some do take more adjustment than I would prefer.

Just my guess, I am not there and I do not know all the circumstances, but have had this problem when a gun requires quite a bit of elevation adjustment from the center of optical zero. When I run into a problem that requires quite a bit of scope adjustment I generally optically center the scope, then sight in at my preferred range of 40 yards using only adjustable rings, this way I only have to fine tune with the scope a few clicks. Just my best guess and may not be the situation at all.

Kit
 
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KitCarson16 said:
My guess is that the elevation tube is floating. I also have two HW97 rifles and I know that when I mounted optically centered scopes on them right out of the box they were only one to one and a half inch low at 25 yards. So a 97 requires very little scope adjustment to sight in.
Now take that same scope and put it on a Diana 350 while optically centered and it can be as much as one foot low at 10 yards and miss the 4 foot target completely at 25 yards. So you crank it up close to the max elevation and the elevation tube starts floating. Back it back down and it works fine. I have even had in the past 2000 dollar name brand PCP rifles that were manufactured with the barrel so crooked I had to use adjustable rings on them. That 350 was an extreme case, most are not that bad, however some do take more adjustment than I would prefer.

Just my guess, I am not there and I do not know all the circumstances, but have had this problem when a gun requires quite a bit of elevation adjustment from the center of optical zero. When I run into a problem that requires quite a bit of scope adjustment I generally optically center the scope, then sight in at my preferred range of 40 yards using only adjustable rings, this way I only have to fine tune with the scope a few clicks. Just my best guess and may not be the situation at all.

Kit
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This all day long and twice on Sunday. Thanks for saving me from having to write it.
I'll only add the, After checking for the usual causes of droop I adjust barrels to the optical center on all my rifles. I even had to do it on my 97 and another 97 I did for someone else. The 97s didn't need a lot but it was enough I addressed it.

I have a Vantage 3-9x40 AO that I can't blow up. It's been on most every tune I've done and on my over sprung R1 that blew up two Airmaxs and a Dampa mount. Why has it lasted? I'm not sure but the first thing I do is adjust the gun to the scope. Maybe running it close to center has prolonged its existence as a test mule??
 
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Thats a good theory but the Sidewinder in question has been sitting in an RWS Lockdown mount since day 1. It may not be perfectly optically zeroed but its darn close. Regardless, a $700 airgun rated scope shouldn't be having this issue. I'll be putting in a ticket with Hawke at some point this weekend and hopefully they'll be able to fix it.

Edit: I can understand the scope not lasting on the Diana. Not working on an HW95 is unacceptable though
 
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Sqwirlfugger57 said:
Thats a good theory but the Sidewinder in question has been sitting in an RWS Lockdown mount since day 1. It may not be perfectly optically zeroed but its darn close. Regardless, a $700 airgun rated scope shouldn't be having this issue. I'll be putting in a ticket with Hawke at some point this weekend and hopefully they'll be able to fix it.

Edit: I can understand the gun not listing on the Diana. Not working on an HW95 is unacceptable though
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I agree. If that scope doesn't hold zero on any springer when truly operating near optical center, it's defective. Hawke will replace it. They just replaced my two Airmax with no problems. It took twelve days from the day I sent them to the day I got them back with labor day weekend in the middle.

Another story about that test mule. The scope a few months ago rolled off my bench landing on the concrete floor and folded the lip of the objective. I called Hawke to see if could pay to fix it. They said that they don't do repairs but if it stops working they will replace it. I asked even with the obvious damage from hitting the floor? He said, "yep just return it. It's covered by their no fault warranty." Damned ugly thing is still working.

Anyway their warranty is excellent and you'll have no problem getting it replaced.
Good luck
Ron
 
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L.Leon said:
The most likely explanation is that the shooter, shoots some guns better than others… So you switch a scope to a different gun, don’t group as well. Blame it on the scope? Put scope back on previous gun, all is good again? Why is that a scope issue?
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If you read all his comments he already addressed that.
Sqwirlfugger57 said:
I moved a known good scope to the heavier recoiling guns and I'm blowing out the bullseye on my target. More to my theory in the comment above
Click to expand...
 
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