Scope myths

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steve123 said:
Concerning the Tree reticles.
Sometimes one might not have time to dial a shooting solution for one distance, like when hunting.
Now expand that scenario x10 - if there are 10 distances then dialing scope turrets 10 times within a stringent time limit can be stressful and a hinderance if one wants to engage all the targets to finish a stage.

I might be one of the earliest competitors using tree reticles to successfully compete and win long range series championships with mag fed centerfire precision rifles using holdovers and holdoffs almost exclusively for a few years.
I used Horus Tree reticles, primarily the H59.
This is what I found out 1st hand while doing so. While the others were taking their eyes out the scope's sight picture to dial for all 9 of the 10 steel(first steel was already dialed for), I was using that time to locate the next steel target and assess what the wind was doing, and maybe as important as those was taking the extra time I had to build a steadier position.
Three reasons right there which helped me win two seasons at the AZPRC series/2011 and 2012.
Everyone else seemed more rushed because they dialed for all the steel.

Furthermore I experimented with dialing here and there at times in this series and found zero advantage vs using holds as far as hitting what I aimed at. Much of the misses I had were due to not guessing the wind right.
Also I learned that the .2 mil holds in my reticle was superior to half mil holds on smaller targets and easier to make a better measurement of POI to POA for a correction.

Hundreds of Precision Rifleman in NRL, PRS, and other similar shooting sports would agree with me because this is common practice now.

Yeah if you have ample time dialing is fine or even preferred. I dial more than I hold these days but I'm not under the time limits I was back then.
Click to expand...


Steve,

I appreciate your balanced view. 👍🏼

It's not one or the other. It's the "It depends" approach. 👍🏼

To me it seems that using holdoffs requires more practice than dialing to achive the same precision — especially when offhand shooting where the reticle dances around the target.

But holdoffs clearly are quicker.

Dialing is a set and go approach — whereas using holdoffs requires the brain to maintain the exact elevation and windage in active memory — while at the same time dealing with buckfever, competition stress, etc. Again, a training issue.


I also realize that with today's powerful PCP's our typical point blank range (PBR) has increased drastically from shooting springers (and the sub-12FPE guns of our UK brethren, and the sub-6FPE guns of our regulation-oppressed German brethren).
➠ This means, that neither holdoffs nor dialing are as often needed for hunting as they used to be.


➧ We live in the Golden Age of Scopes & Airguns:
300-dollars scopes with a full set of features and consistent turrets.
A reticle for every shooting style.
A gun for every shooting scenario and aesthetic reference.
What a great time to be an airgunner! 🤩


Matthias
 
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JungleShooter said:
Steve,

I appreciate your balanced view. 👍🏼

It's not one or the other. It's the "It depends" approach. 👍🏼

To me it seems that using holdoffs requires more practice than dialing to achive the same precision — especially when offhand shooting where the reticle dances around the target.

But holdoffs clearly are quicker.

Dialing is a set and go approach — whereas using holdoffs requires the brain to maintain the exact elevation and windage in active memory — while at the same time dealing with buckfever, competition stress, etc. Again, a training issue.


I also realize that with today's powerful PCP's our typical point blank range (PBR) has increased drastically from shooting springers (and the sub-12FPE guns of our UK brethren, and the sub-6FPE guns of our regulation-oppressed German brethren). This means, that neither holdoffs nor dialing are as often needed for hunting as they used to be.


➧ We live in the Golden Age of Scopes & Airguns:
300-dollars scopes with a full set of features and consistent turrets.
A reticle for every shooting style.
A gun for every shooting scenario and aesthetic reference.
What a great time to be an airgunner! 🤩


Matthias
Click to expand...
Very true Matthias.

Last week I was camping near a river. What did I spy but flies sunning on rocks on both shore sides, the near 9 yards away and the far 23 yards a way. The kid came out in me big time, LOL! I couldn't resist and got out my Steyr LGB1 which is a 17 cal/6 fpe pcp biathlon trainer sending the JSB 8.4's. What a great time and many a fly got smeared at both locations either dialing elevation while holding off for wind, or when the elevation turret was back on zero using holdovers and holdoffs. It was fun to play with both.

Man at that fpe level pellets blow like crazy in the wind at 23 yards. I quit by the time the wind got up to 10 mph or so because I was missing more than hitting.

I have my old FFP SWFA 3-15 on the Steyr in case I shoot closer than 10Y. Eek, my spoiled eyes reminded me that I need to get some better glass on that gun.
Hmmm what to get??? This time its .2's in mil for the reticle and hopefully a tree reticle but it's gotta focus at 10Y on max magnification!
I also used my Steyr ProX quite a bit that week in 22 cal /30 fpe that has a Athlon Helos G2 2-12x42 on it. It worked well on the flies too and has better glass but I would still like more than 12x or 15x sometimes on the LGB1.

I suppose I should see what scopes come out for 2024 before I buy prematurely.
 
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Oh I just remembered something from over a decade ago.
There was a military sniper competition back then. IIRC it was a world event for the best shooter and or the best team. This is a very dynamic type of shooting match not unlike PRS or NRL except with a lot more demanding physicality involved as well as tactics real snipers utilize.
One sniper shooting in the event was using a Nightforce F1 3-15x50 FFP scope with a H58 reticle in it. During the match his scope went bad so he wasn't able to dial effectively anymore. I think his turret got stuck but I can't remember exactly what the problem was. Long story short he was able to compensate using the .2 mil holds in the reticle and won the match and I think?? brought his team to victory.

It was funny timing because I was having a slightly controversial discussion on a thread about Horus reticles and the use of .2 mil holds with the owner of Snipers Hide and other members.
Not much was said afterwards about Horus reticles once I posted the story above, well except that Horus as a company did him wrong which I didn't disagree with.

The Horus GRID paper reticle as they called it was a very offending issue back then, LOL! It isn't pretty to look at, darn busy too, but it does the job well.
 
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i prefer the h59 (for multiple target engagements at different distances.)
for me it seems like my mind learned to ignore the tree until i need to use it.
there are lots of competing reticles now that aren't as expensive as horus designs.
somebody was probably right that a simplified bdc type reticle would probably work for lots of airgun applications.
the scope on my leshy is pretty simple
swampfox-arrowhead-1-10x24mm-rifle-scope-rifle-scope-swampfox-optics-876626.jpg
 
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starlingassn said:
love the reticle on my arken sh4

christmas tree is there if i need it,
but it doesnt clutter my view,
as the windage dots are very fine.

View attachment 394403
Click to expand...


Assassin, 😊

please, don't kill me.... — it seems (to me, at least), that the Christmas tree of the Arken is pretty standard when it comes to "cluttering the view".

Have you seen Christmas tree reticles that DO clutter the view for you?



No matter if Christmas tree, target turrets, or iron sights — Keep killing them starlings!!! 👍🏼

Matthias
 
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JungleShooter said:
Assassin, 😊

please, don't kill me.... — it seems (to me, at least), that the Christmas tree of the Arken is pretty standard when it comes to "cluttering the view".

Have you seen Christmas tree reticles that DO clutter the view for you?



No matter if Christmas tree, target turrets, or iron sights — Keep killing them starlings!!! 👍🏼

Matthias
Click to expand...


hahahahahaha you're safe brother :ROFLMAO:

yes the arken is what i would call standard type christmas tree,
that picture of the reticle makes the dots seem larger/bolder than they are.

and yes,
ive seen christmas tree reticles that was like looking through a venetian blind cracked open just a little LOL
 
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starlingassn said:
heres a scopecam image that shows my arken reticle,
christmas tree is there if you need it,
but it also doesnt just command your attention unless youre looking for it.

View attachment 394425
Click to expand...


Looks good. 👍🏼

A ctually, I find very few FFP scopes with a 6-fold* or higher magnification ratio that do NOT have a gridded reticle (= Christmas tree reticle).


🔹I used to think like you: "If I need the grid, it's there, if I don't need it, it does no harm." 👍🏼
➧ However, since I started scopecaming I do wish I could buy big magnification ranges with a simple holdoff reticle (crosshairs with hash lines) — because in a video the dots DO clutter.... 😆

Only options (with 10/15y parallax) are Sightron S8, Nightforce NX8, and Maven RS.4 it seems....

Matthias



*6-fold: 5-30x | 4-24x | 6-36x
7-fold: 4-28x
8-fold: 4-32x | 5-40x
 
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