Scope Recommendations for New Airgun Shooter

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CyberDyneSystems said:
for squirrels, I would be looking at a scope in the 4-16x or at MOST 4-20x. Many are happy/prefer even shorter 3-9x or 3-12x.
I'd save some $ (and put that towards better build and optics) by getting a quality SFP vs. FFP.
Get "AO" or better, side focus down to 10 yards at least. A few have 5 yard as an option, but they are few and far between.
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I am now rereading this thread. I have never seen a scope parallax down to five yards. S7
 
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Sanctify7 said:
I am now rereading this thread. I have never seen a scope parallax down to five yards. S7
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UTG bugbuster 3-12x32. 3yd minimum focus. The downside, .3 moa adjustments. Although, if it’s being used for pesting, .3 equates to .15 at 50yds or .075 at 25yds.

www.pyramydair.com

UTG Bug Buster 3-12x32 AO, Mil-Dot, 1/3 MOA, 1", Weaver | Pyramyd AIR

We've got a great price on UTG Bug Buster 3-12x32 AO, Mil-Dot, 1/3 MOA, 1", Weaver at Pyramyd AIR. Shop where the experts do!
www.pyramydair.com
 
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Sanctify7 said:
Patrick,
As I continue to evaluate Hawke scopes, I have also found that the turrets on my Sidewinder are not as crisp as those on my Helix. It’s too bad that you say turrets are also mushy on the Frontier, and yes, this is not good for the $800.00 range, and that’s a less expensive model in the Frontier line. If you care to read it, I emailed Hawke about the lower weight for some Frontiers. They gave me a bit of an answer. Both question and answer are on another thread, “Scope Recommendations for New Air Gun Shooter.” Do you mind telling what those other features you did not like were? Thanks.
David
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David, I could not find the post “Scope Recommendations for New Air Gun Shooter.” you pointed out. No worries though.
To give you a perspective on where I am coming from; I was looking to find the sweet spot in the $800+- range. Light weight, great glass (not good),great recital, 100yd+, and no mushy turrets. I feel for the money there are other options out there for less money that surpass the Frontier. Check out Athlon, Arken and Element in the 2-12 and 4-16 as a starting point. All have very light weight options and quality. These few are a great value IMHO.
I will say, our eyes are different and that is why there are as many different scopes as there are...YMMV... Just a point.
Many here have much more technical knowledge than I that can contribute to this conversation. I am honored and will concede to their knowledge. I wish I could say more. Having fun is what's important!
Keep us all posted.

Patrick
 
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Sanctify7 said:
Hi, Matthias.
Check out the new thread in “Optics” on new lightweight Arkens.
David
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YES, David, just yesterday on the phone with one of our AGN members I found out about it. 👍🏼
It has great specs, it has (for a 4-16x) a huge FoV, and the big pillars that Arken placed on the scope for us turret dialers are great.

Matthias
 
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2L8 said:
David, I could not find the post “Scope Recommendations for New Air Gun Shooter.” you pointed out. No worries though.
To give you a perspective on where I am coming from; I was looking to find the sweet spot in the $800+- range. Light weight, great glass (not good),great recital, 100yd+, and no mushy turrets. I feel for the money there are other options out there for less money that surpass the Frontier. Check out Athlon, Arken and Element in the 2-12 and 4-16 as a starting point. All have very light weight options and quality. These few are a great value IMHO.
I will say, our eyes are different and that is why there are as many different scopes as there are...YMMV... Just a point.
Many here have much more technical knowledge than I that can contribute to this conversation. I am honored and will concede to their knowledge. I wish I could say more. Having fun is what's important!
Keep us all posted.

Patrick
Click to expand...
Hi, Patrick.
This post is the post I was pointing out, I believe. It’s funny, though, when I punched in the title so I could help you locate it, it would not come up for me either. ???
Anyway, I genuinely feel the same as you do. I want very good glass, and not good glass, crisp turrets, and the scope needs to be light. And I want the 10-yard parallax. I take a good deal of very close-range shots.
Here’s my question to you. If you are searching in the $800-plus range, as I am, which Athlon and Element line are you thinking of? I have a Helix 4-16x44, but, as you would know, it’s under $500. And, the Titan is a heavy thing—at least to me. I have been looking at Athlon from the Helos up. I am really looking forward to glass that strikes me as being a sure cut or two above the Helix and the Sidewinder. As I add to this post, let me say that the Nexus, on a great deal, and at 28 oz., is not out of the question.
David
 
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Here are some other neat attributes I've found out when using my Athlon Helos G2 2-12x42 which might help some people.

The first to come to mind, and this is going to sound kind of silly, but this scope is one awesome fly getter. In the springtime where I live we get a fly hatch about April. We set a box on a table at 10Y, use some beer as bait, and have a mini varmint hunt. The .3 mil sized dot is just smaller than a medium sized fly so it's a great size to place on a fly and I can do head shots or wing shots by using the edge of the dot. The main advantage I have is a huge FOV at 4x-5x so I can swing "fast" over to a fly on the table that my friends with their FFP scopes haven't seen yet because they are on a higher magnification/smaller FOV so as to see their reticle well. Ha, sometimes I have to just stop for a while to let my friends get more shooting in because with this scope on a Steyr ProX semiauto its definitely cheating!

Fast, yes this scope is fast on steel too. I set my little round steel on sawhorses and see how fast I can knock them off. It's easier to do with his scope than my others.

Another is using this scope at 10M on black 10M bulls with the illumination on. I set the magnification to 8x so when shooting offhand the image appears less shaky and then its one awesome sight picture seeing the RED center dot as well as the circle of death surrounding the bull. I don't think a better reticle exists for shooting round bulls honestly!

Long Range. If one wants to shoot normal sized steel appropriate for airguns this scope works great. At my 140Y range I can hit all the steel just as well as with my more powerful scopes. I like to shoot the course dialing then put the scope back on zero and use holdovers (hashes are thicker as well so easy to see on lower mag), then repeat on different magnifications, variety is fun!

Though for serious BR this scope is not the best choice. Hunting yes a great choice.

It ranges well with a side wheel attached and makes a darn good Pistol Field Target scope. Heck I got 1st place at our state match using mine.

Perspectives = The .3 mil sized dot is a hair over 3" at 300Y, smaller than the width of a prairie dogs chest at 150Y, or the same size as a squirrels eye at 25Y. I feel like 12x can get a lot done. Only seldom do I wish for more magnification for most of the purposes I mentioned.

Lastly I've had some very compact scopes. Lets just say there exists optical compromises which I would rather not deal with so I'll sacrifice a little weight and length to avoid them. The only exception is my March shorty 1-10 DFP which still has them somewhat but to a very small extent. If I didn't need 1x on my AR for self defense I'd sell the 1-10 and buy another 2-12, that's how much I like this 2-12!
 
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steve123 said:
Here are some other neat attributes I've found out when using my Athlon Helos G2 2-12x42 which might help some people.

The first to come to mind, and this is going to sound kind of silly, but this scope is one awesome fly getter. In the springtime where I live we get a fly hatch about April. We set a box on a table at 10Y, use some beer as bait, and have a mini varmint hunt. The .3 mil sized dot is just smaller than a medium sized fly so it's a great size to place on a fly and I can do head shots or wing shots by using the edge of the dot. The main advantage I have is a huge FOV at 4x-5x so I can swing "fast" over to a fly on the table that my friends with their FFP scopes haven't seen yet because they are on a higher magnification/smaller FOV so as to see their reticle well. Ha, sometimes I have to just stop for a while to let my friends get more shooting in because with this scope on a Steyr ProX semiauto its definitely cheating!

Fast, yes this scope is fast on steel too. I set my little round steel on sawhorses and see how fast I can knock them off. It's easier to do with his scope than my others.

Another is using this scope at 10M on black 10M bulls with the illumination on. I set the magnification to 8x so when shooting offhand the image appears less shaky and then its one awesome sight picture seeing the RED center dot as well as the circle of death surrounding the bull. I don't think a better reticle exists for shooting round bulls honestly!

Long Range. If one wants to shoot normal sized steel appropriate for airguns this scope works great. At my 140Y range I can hit all the steel just as well as with my more powerful scopes. I like to shoot the course dialing then put the scope back on zero and use holdovers (hashes are thicker as well so easy to see on lower mag), then repeat on different magnifications, variety is fun!

Though for serious BR this scope is not the best choice. Hunting yes a great choice.

It ranges well with a side wheel attached and makes a darn good Pistol Field Target scope. Heck I got 1st place at our state match using mine.

Perspectives = The .3 mil sized dot is a hair over 3" at 300Y, smaller than the width of a prairie dogs chest at 150Y, or the same size as a squirrels eye at 25Y. I feel like 12x can get a lot done. Only seldom do I wish for more magnification for most of the purposes I mentioned.

Lastly I've had some very compact scopes. Lets just say there exists optical compromises which I would rather not deal with so I'll sacrifice a little weight and length to avoid them. The only exception is my March shorty 1-10 DFP which still has them somewhat but to a very small extent. If I didn't need 1x on my AR for self defense I'd sell the 1-10 and buy another 2-12, that's how much I like this 2-12!
Click to expand...
This was interesting, Steve123.
You made the bullseye configuration a tad more attractive to me, because it was not. If you don’t mind, what are the compact scopes that have lesser optics? Thanks. S7
 
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Sanctify7 said:
Hi, Patrick.
This post is the post I was pointing out, I believe. It’s funny, though, when I punched in the title so I could help you locate it, it would not come up for me either. ???
Anyway, I genuinely feel the same as you do. I want very good glass, and not good glass, crisp turrets, and the scope needs to be light. And I want the 10-yard parallax. I take a good deal of very close-range shots.
Here’s my question to you. If you are searching in the $800-plus range, as I am, which Athlon and Element line are you thinking of? I have a Helix 4-16x44, but, as you would know, it’s under $500. And, the Titan is a heavy thing—at least to me. I have been looking at Athlon from the Helos up. I am really looking forward to glass that strikes me as being a sure cut or two above the Helix and the Sidewinder. As I add to this post, let me say that the Nexus, on a great deal, and at 28 oz., is not out of the question.
David
Click to expand...
David, Truly respecting all the responses here and knowing that @steve123 was/is involved in the designing of Athlon reticles is, well, a bonus to us all.
I will have a hard time narrowing down a scope that will fit your parameters. Many will offer the possibilities that you question. I understand your desire, but can only share what my eyes interpret through my scopes. Price is not always the point for a quality scope for what You Need. My friend Joe shoots an SWFA 10x42 out to 200+ yards at P-dogs putting us all to shame with our "fancy scopes". So YMMV as well.
There is a comfort between your gun , reticle and scope that is Zen to you. Experiment and share your experience.

Patrick
 
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elock49 said:
I was thinking of putting it on a benjamin cayden, but I still haven't decided what pcp I am going to get. The gun will be specifically for squirrels with most shots at 25 yards or under; 50 yard shots would be rare.
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I have the Cayden, and I'm using the Athlon Talos 6-24x50 sfp scope. I shoot reactive targets, (air venturi rat on a stick) @ distances from 10-55 yards, but I also stretch out the distance to 100 yards. Ranges well, clear glass, the illuminated reticle is handy for darker conditions I run into shooting in the forest. You may not need so much magnification for the distances you plan to shoot, but the scope will be clear and range well for your needs.
 
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Sanctify7 said:
This was interesting, Steve123.
You made the bullseye configuration a tad more attractive to me, because it was not. If you don’t mind, what are the compact scopes that have lesser optics? Thanks. S7
Click to expand...

I haven't looked through a lot of the super compact scopes but if the expensive super compact scopes have optical compromises.....
The scopes I've owned, and not so much lesser optics per say, but the optical weirdness 🙃 that was present, is hard to describe in the super compact scopes.

The March 3-24x42 I had was just annoying to look through. It felt like my eyes were strained after a shooting session, glass good but not great, there was edge distortion, and tighter eyebox on 24x. I was in my late 40's when I owned it so my eyes were better then as well.

Then the March HM 5-42x56. I don't know why but the IQ just wasn't there for me and my older friends on higher magnification??? Too me it got somewhat dim and blurry by 38x and getting worse at 42x. The other side of it was at 15x it was brilliant but I didn't buy that scope to use at 15x to 20x where it appeared best.

Then the March 1-10, the glass is great and very little distortion, but it's still got a tiny bit of fisheye affect.

I'm just saying that all these are expensive scopes so I doubt I'd be happy with $500-ish scopes that are super compact.

I did buy a $120 Big5 3-9 that was super compact a few years ago and it was trash in every way except size and weight.... I returned it after one shooting session.
Hard for me to look through Bugbusters, etc, can't hardly suffer them.

When I look through the standard length scopes of decent quality they look fine to me. The latest example from a few weeks ago that comes to mind is a friends Athlon Argos G2 6-24x50. I was surprised how nice the glass was in it. Just nice to look through and it's only a $400 scope.

I guess what I'm getting at is there are shorter scopes which are fine to look through then at some point the shorter a scope gets for it's magnification range the more that optical compromises start to show up.

All that being said you or anyone else might be just fine with how a super compact scope appears as you look through it and I'm guessing youth and great vision helps a bunch.
 
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steve123 said:
I haven't looked through a lot of the super compact scopes but if the expensive super compact scopes have optical compromises.....
The scopes I've owned, and not so much lesser optics per say, but the optical weirdness 🙃 that was present, is hard to describe in the super compact scopes.

The March 3-24x42 I had was just annoying to look through. It felt like my eyes were strained after a shooting session, glass good but not great, there was edge distortion, and tighter eyebox on 24x. I was in my late 40's when I owned it so my eyes were better then as well.

Then the March HM 5-42x56. I don't know why but the IQ just wasn't there for me and my older friends on higher magnification??? Too me it got somewhat dim and blurry by 38x and getting worse at 42x. The other side of it was at 15x it was brilliant but I didn't buy that scope to use at 15x to 20x where it appeared best.

Then the March 1-10, the glass is great and very little distortion, but it's still got a tiny bit of fisheye affect.

I'm just saying that all these are expensive scopes so I doubt I'd be happy with $500-ish scopes that are super compact.

I did buy a $120 Big5 3-9 that was super compact a few years ago and it was trash in every way except size and weight.... I returned it after one shooting session.
Hard for me to look through Bugbusters, etc, can't hardly suffer them.

When I look through the standard length scopes of decent quality they look fine to me. The latest example from a few weeks ago that comes to mind is a friends Athlon Argos G2 6-24x50. I was surprised how nice the glass was in it. Just nice to look through and it's only a $400 scope.

I guess what I'm getting at is there are shorter scopes which are fine to look through then at some point the shorter a scope gets for it's magnification range the more that optical compromises start to show up.

All that being said you or anyone else might be just fine with how a super compact scope appears as you look through it and I'm guessing youth and great vision helps a bunch.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that detailed answer, Steve123. I get it. You made me chuckle with your comment on the Bugbusters: “can’t hardly suffer them.”
Well, I am sufficiently leery of compact scopes now. Also, my eyes are not what they used to be either. I am not a kid, or close to it.
You also hit on something that caught my interest. You liked the optics on the Argos. I would like to check out one of the Athlon scopes sometime myself. I would perhaps shoot a bit higher, say for the Helos or the MidasTac. I wouldn’t mind the Ares, either, if it is not heavy. My concern is not long-range shooting because I simply have no place to do it. I would like some glass that is clearly superior to that of my Helix and Sidewinder.
Oh. One more question. Would you say that the glass in the higher money Athlon line improves as the price goes up? Again, is the glass of the MTac better than the Helos, and the Helos better than the Argos, and so on, or does it not work like that?

Nice conversation!
S7
 
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2L8 said:
David, Truly respecting all the responses here and knowing that @steve123 was/is involved in the designing of Athlon reticles is, well, a bonus to us all.
I will have a hard time narrowing down a scope that will fit your parameters. Many will offer the possibilities that you question. I understand your desire, but can only share what my eyes interpret through my scopes. Price is not always the point for a quality scope for what You Need. My friend Joe shoots an SWFA 10x42 out to 200+ yards at P-dogs putting us all to shame with our "fancy scopes". So YMMV as well.
There is a comfort between your gun , reticle and scope that is Zen to you. Experiment and share your experience.

Patrick
Click to expand...
Thanks, Patrick.
Yes, different strokes for different folks (and their applications) applies here. As I have said to some others in this thread, I have acquired a bit of a yearning to peer through some high-quality glass, and God willing, I shall down the road. If I can actually put it to good use, that would be a plus. :)
Take care.
David
 
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Sanctify7 said:
I am now rereading this thread. I have never seen a scope parallax down to five yards. S7
Click to expand...
The one I own that does, is a UTG 3-12 40 that came mounted on a used Dragonclaw. It's AO, as opposed to side focus, but does go down to 5. I think AIM makes another AO that does so as well. They are definitely rare birds.
 
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Sanctify7 said:
Thanks for that detailed answer, Steve123. I get it. You made me chuckle with your comment on the Bugbusters: “can’t hardly suffer them.”
Well, I am sufficiently leery of compact scopes now. Also, my eyes are not what they used to be either. I am not a kid, or close to it.
You also hit on something that caught my interest. You liked the optics on the Argos. I would like to check out one of the Athlon scopes sometime myself. I would perhaps shoot a bit higher, say for the Helos or the MidasTac. I wouldn’t mind the Ares, either, if it is not heavy. My concern is not long-range shooting because I simply have no place to do it. I would like some glass that is clearly superior to that of my Helix and Sidewinder.
Oh. One more question. Would you say that the glass in the higher money Athlon line improves as the price goes up? Again, is the glass of the MTac better than the Helos, and the Helos better than the Argos, and so on, or does it not work like that?

Nice conversation!
S7
Click to expand...
You're welcome S7.

Honestly I've looked through a bunch of 1st Gen Argos 6-24's. Some had glass that wasn't all that good but still better than the BB's. Then most had decent IQ. The two G2 Argos 6-24's I've looked through had good glass but the one I referred to above was exceptional for whatever reason. I think its the gamble of buying less expensive scopes, meaning more chance of getting the not so good examples.

The G2 Helos's I've looked through are pretty much like the G2 Argos in IQ though without a doubt there is a step up in quality and features. I'm very happy with all my G2 Helos scopes for what they are.

The Midas TAC's I've seen are definitely superior than the Argos and Helos in quality and IQ. Actually almost Cronus level to me in both those aspects. In fact the TAC's remind me of ETR but without the feature sets of the ETR line.
 
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