HW/Weihrauch Scopes - new to break barrel rifles.

K3JB-1

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Jul 23, 2024
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Greetings-I have been taking my time and learning about air guns reading your posts. I come from shooting sporting clays and hand guns. My first purchase is a HW 50s which I have now shot about 150 pellets through. I have noticed most of the names for scopes that seem to be popular, I am not a hunter, just plinking and casual target shooting, I have a powder burner Anchutz 22 with a Leupold scope, great shooting combination. In contacting Leupold they make a Freedom line of scopes with one. 3-9x33 for .22 and air rifles. Why do I not see more of these being used? Your experienced, knowledgeable thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.
 
Scoping a springer can be a dice roll.

I prefer the brands that offer no questions asked lifetime warranty. Like athlon or hawke for example .. usually the test can work but .... Then no recourse and your back adding to cart .
If your going to shoot a high shot count then my suggestion pays off . If now and then on a occasionally shooter then you could get buy with lesser. So to say . I've used athlons warranty on a used scope and it went easy and quick the days there a couple to fix and days shiped back ..
 
I have a few Leupold EFRs and they are a great combination of excellent glass, full parallax range from 10y to infinity, durability, and warranty.

The one downside for me is the lack of holdover reticles. I mostly see dot and duplex reticles which are not useful for handling the big change of POI from 10 to 100y. First focal plane is very useful also.

I think some shooters stopped supporting Leupold when they took most of their manufacturing overseas.

Still others left when the Leupold custom shop closed and has not re-opened.

I suspect others may prefer a larger scope overall for more light collection and still others want a wider magnification range or side focus knob. New scope designs seem to have all of those things plus what the Leupold offers. Unfortunately Leupolds new scope models lack parallax adjustment inside 50y so that pretty well kills their usability for airguns.
 
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Excellent rifle choice! One of my favorite Weihrauch rifles. For the HW50s I suggest the Hawke Airmax 2-7x32 with a BKL 260 one piece droop mount. I have this combination on five HW springers and recommend it. Very light and very bright.

Springers are very hard on optics. Hawke has a lifetime warranty that I have used before. Very simple return process and I had a brand new scope a week later.

The H&N Field Target Trophy's will be a great pellet to try in your rifle. All of my HW's shoot them very well regardless of caliber.



 
I have several Hawke scopes. The Vantage line is a good scope but an airgun will scramble them sooner or later. Lifetime warranty and the service is good. I have a Hawke airmax that has held up well. For target it is fine but for hunting and plinking it's worthless. The crosshairs are too fine and too much "stuff" on the reticle.

Leopold makes a mil dot .22 scope without parallax adjustments. It's set for 60 yards. When I buy another that's what I'll get.

Sightron and Athlon make good scopes too.

For me the AO is unimportant. If you want to shoot tiny patterns on paper it helps. But it's no big deal to have a fixed focus scope. I always "Bob my head" a little setting up the shot to center my eye. That takes care of most error. My AO scopes get set about 35 yards and forgotten. So an AO is not worth the extra for me.

I like the 32mm objective. You just don't need a huge objective mounted high. Keep a 32mm mounted as low as you can get it and you sidestep a bunch of issues.

I have tried every mount on the planet for airguns. Most suck. Most are too high. Most slip. I only use Sportsmatch 2 piece low (32mm obj.) And medium (40mm obj.). I also like a utg picatinny rail with Burris steel z rings on the hard kicking Hatsans. Still on those rough guns iron sights work best.

Warne or Talleys on a rail will work perfectly but the mounts will cost more than the scope. Probably the rifle too. I use them on all my high powered rifles but are overkill on an airgun.

Regular cheap scope rings just won't work on ANY gun. Especially on an 11mm dovetail. The UTG, RWS, BLK etc will work if you can match them with your scope/gun to get proper eye relief. One piece mounts often have limited eye relief adjustment. Be careful or you will have a pile of mounts that just won't put the scope in the right spot. And if you get the scope too high you will be buying a cheek rest to get cheek weld.

A scope with an objective the size of a satellite dish mounted high will slip easier. If it's got batteries, adjustment knobs, an onboard computer and a wet bar it will have a bunch of inertia way up there. It will slip easier. It will break sooner. It will require a cheek rest. It's going to give you tons of rise between the muzzle and your zero range. The martinis will be shaken and not stirred. Stuff will fall off and features will break. Sooner or later a guy realizes all he needs is a fixed 4x that does nothing more than what's intended.

On my HW95 I have a 32mm Hawke vantage and low Spotsmatch 4 screw rings. It's perfect. Sits 1/8" above the barrel. Perfect cheek weld. No slipping EVER. Same on the HW97 only medium height rings with a 40mm scope. Solid as a rock. The only mounts I didn't have to fiddle with constantly. Sportsmatch is what I'll buy from here on out. Rock solid and they won't break the bank.

Lots of guys like one piece mounts. They are great as long as the distance between the rings matches your scope configuration. Some airgun scopes have long eyepieces and short tubes and not all rails will work. So it's a bit of trial and error that can be expensive. They all have dimensions listed and I suggest looking closely and comparing them to the scope you select.

Whatever mount you get needs a recoil lug. Whatever scope you get needs a lifetime warranty. The rest is small potatoes. Don't fall for a bunch of crap like illuminated reticle, changing colors or other fashion. It's garbage. You need it to be solid and not slip and be able to return it. Nothing else matters that much.

A variable power is great but you don't really need that either. A fixed power scope with 4x is fine. A 3x9 is good. You just don't need much more than 6x unless your competing. Even then you dont need it. Changing magnification changes your POA so if your using your mil dots a variable power is a huge pain. I sight in and shoot at 3x. I may use magnification to find and evaluate the target but i turn it back down to 3x to shoot. I rarely use the zoom. Never for a shot.

For some guys all the gadgets and knobs are precious. You can get them if you think you need them. But a simple fixed 4x scope with a 32mm objective mounted as low as you can get it works great. All the other candy is just an extra expense that has very little benefit.

Just my two cents and I'll only charge you a nickel.
 
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I have several Hawke scopes. The Vantage line is a good scope but an airgun will scramble them sooner or later. Lifetime warranty and the service is good. I have a Hawke airmax that has held up well. For target it is fine but for hunting and plinking it's worthless. The crosshairs are too fine and too much "stuff" on the reticle.

Leopold makes a mil dot .22 scope without parallax adjustments. It's set for 60 yards. When I buy another that's what I'll get.

Sightron and Athlon make good scopes too.

For me the AO is unimportant. If you want to shoot tiny patterns on paper it helps. But it's no big deal to have a fixed focus scope. I always "Bob my head" a little setting up the shot to center my eye. That takes care of most error. My AO scopes get set about 35 yards and forgotten. So an AO is not worth the extra for me.

I like the 32mm objective. You just don't need a huge objective mounted high. Keep a 32mm mounted as low as you can get it and you sidestep a bunch of issues.

I have tried every mount on the planet for airguns. Most suck. Most are too high. Most slip. I only use Sportsmatch 2 piece low (32mm obj.) And medium (40mm obj.). I also like a utg picatinny rail with Burris steel z rings on the hard kicking Hatsans. Still on those rough guns iron sights work best.

Warne or Talleys on a rail will work perfectly but the mounts will cost more than the scope. Probably the rifle too. I use them on all my high powered rifles but are overkill on an airgun.

Regular cheap scope rings just won't work on ANY gun. Especially on an 11mm dovetail. The UTG, RWS, BLK etc will work if you can match them with your scope/gun to get proper eye relief. One piece mounts often have limited eye relief adjustment. Be careful or you will have a pile of mounts that just won't put the scope in the right spot. And if you get the scope too high you will be buying a cheek rest to get cheek weld.

On my HW95 I have a 32mm Hawke vantage and low Spotsmatch 4 screw rings. It's perfect. Sits 1/8" above the barrel. Perfect cheek weld. No slipping EVER. Same on the HW97 only medium height rings with a 40mm scope. Solid as a rock. The only mounts I didn't have to fiddle with constantly. Sportsmatch is what I'll buy from here on out. Rock solid and they won't break the bank.

Lots of guys like one piece mounts. They are great as long as the distance between the rings matches your scope configuration. Some airgun scopes have long eyepieces and short tubes and not all rails will work. So it's a bit of trial and error that can be expensive. They all have dimensions listed and I suggest looking closely and comparing them to the scope you select.

Whatever mount you get needs a recoil lug. Whatever scope you get needs a lifetime warranty. Don't fall for a bunch of crap like illuminated reticle, changing colors or other fashion. It's garbage. You need it to be solid and not slip and be able to return it. Nothing else matters that much.

A variable power is great but you don't really need that either. A fixed power scope with 4x is fine. A 3x9 is good. You just don't need much more than 6x unless your competing. Even then you dont nèd it. Changing magnification changes your POA so if your using your mil dots a variable power is a huge pain. I sight in and shoot at 3x. I may use magnification to find and evaluate the target but i turn it back down to 3x to shoot. I rarely use the zoom. Never for a shot.

For some guys all the gadgets and knobs are precious. You can get them if you think you need them. But a simple fixed 4x scope with a 32mm objective mounted as low as you can get it works great. All the other candy is just an extra expense that has very little benefit.

Just my two cents and I'll only charge you a nickel.
I agree with nearly everything said here. I'll only diverge on a couple things. I agree the Airmax reticle is too fine for dark busy backgrounds associated with hunting. However love them for plinking especially at long distances because of the stepped hollow lower post. When I'm plinking I'm not pressed for time and locating the reticle isn't problematic.

The only airgun I hunt with is my Hw50. It has a straight 4X non AO Vantage mildot. The reticle is on the thick side for target work but its great for hunting. The fixed 4X and non AO is great because the holdover values stay consistent and the targets are always in focus. For instance this morning I was shooting groups with some of my springers at 25 yards and a 4" plate at 92 yards. After shooting 25 yards my Airmax equipped guns needed AO adjustments to see the 4" plate at 92 yards. Then they needed adjustments to go back to the 25 yard target. Only my non AO Hw50 can swing between 25 and 92 without adjustments. In fact its in perfect focus at 11 yards out. This is a huge deal for hunting when you don't know what distance your targets will appear. The thicker reticle, consistent hold over values and huge depth of field makes this my preferred hunting and plinking scope.

Fwiw the Vantage line is springer rated upto 12 Fpe. I have one Vantage 3-9x40 AO that I've used as a shop mule for years. Its been used on dozens of springers including some healthy R1s. I'd have no problem recommending a Vantage for <12 fpe springers IF you've eliminated barrel droop. Any gun my Vantage has been on had the droop fixed first. Droop kills many springer scopes that might otherwise survive.

Kudos on the Sportsmatch recommendation. I only use two piece Sportsmatch rings because they're exceptionally well made and give you the most flexibility.

My worthless 2 cts

20240806_112534.jpg
 
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I agree with nearly everything said here. I'll only diverge on a couple things. I agree the Airmax reticle is too fine for dark busy backgrounds associated with hunting. However love them for plinking especially at long distances because of the stepped hollow lower post. When I'm plinking I'm not pressed for time and locating the reticle isn't problematic.

The only airgun I hunt with is my Hw50. It has a straight 4X non AO Vantage mildot. The reticle is on the thick side for target work but its great for hunting. The fixed 4X and non AO is great because the holdover values stay consistent and the targets are always in focus. For instance I was shooting groups with my springers at 25 yards and a 4" plate at 92 yards. After shooting 25 yards my Airmax equipped guns needed AO adjustments to see the 4" plate at 92 yards. Then they needed adjustments to go back to the 25 yard target. Only my non AO Hw50 can swing between 25 and 92 without adjustments. In fact its in perfect focus at 11 yards out. This is a huge deal for hunting when you don't know what distance your targets will appear. The thicker reticle, consistent hold over values and huge depth of field makes this my preferred hunting and plinking scope.

Fwiw the Vantage line is springer rated upto 12 Fpe. I have one Vantage 3-9x40 AO that I've used as a shop mule for years. Its been used on dozens of springers including some healthy R1s. I'd have no problem recommending a Vantage for <12 fpe springers IF you've eliminated barrel droop. Any gun my Vantage has been on had droop the droop fixed first. Droop kills many springer scopes that might otherwise survive.

Kudos on the Sportsmatch recommendation. I only use two piece Sportsmatch rings because they're exceptionally well made and give you the most flexibility.

My worthless 2 cts

Bingo! My experience exactly! It's worth at least 25 cents!

I sight a rifle in with the scope at optical center and bend the barrel to get zero. I fought with "droop" until I decided to try it. Now I'm never more than a couple clicks off optical center and scopes last longer.

Shimming is crap. Adjustable mounts are crap. Those inserts you spin to adjust are crap. The only good solution to barrel droop is to correct the barrel droop.


Bending a barrel sounded insane to me when I first heard about it. I was nervous as hell when i tried it the first time. But now I just clamp it in a vice and bend away. It works great.

I sight in at 25 yards on the dot ABOVE the crosshair. I'm ABOVE the crosshair out to 47 yards or so. It keeps me from going so far below at 100. So I never shoot down there in those brackets on the Airmax.

I get mixed up if I go more than a couple dots down. I shoot off the wrong dot sometimes and toss one into the weeds. I can only count to two. So I get 0-50 above the crosshair. 50-100 below. I'm just below the third dot on the Airmax at 3x. It's just easier to remember my POA if I split the range in half at the crosshair.

I do like the reticle on a light background. But even then when you get a shadow those etched lines disappear. The Vantage IS too thick. Somewhere between would be perfect.

I shot with a Leopold fixed six with tapered crosshairs for years. It was ideal for a high powered hunting rifle. You never lost the crosshair but the cross was super fine. I wish I could find a reticle like that for an airgun.

The old weaver steel low power rimfire scopes with the post over the horizontal was genius. I have shot one on a rimfire for 50 years. I would buy another in a minute if I could find one in serviceable condition. That would be a perfect springer scope.

I love the Leopold mark AR scopes too. I use one on a muzzleloader. They make a 1" objective Freedom 1.5x4 that's similar. That too would be good on an air rifle. Incredible field of view. Light as a feather. Super glass. Almost as low as an iron sight. Almost as fast as an iron sight.

I mounted mine on my HW95 and loved it. I put it back on the muzzleloader, but It's either going to be a Freedom 1" or a Freedom 34mm rimfire Leopold that replaces the Hawke.
 
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This is a lifetime scope for the HW50.
 
That's gospel brother! And if you want some dots the "rimfire mil dot" is exactly the same but with spots.

Lots of airgunners have to have adjustable stuff and I get that. Guys just like all the bling and it's cool. For guys competing at a higher level every edge counts. But for most of us keeping it simple gets us more hits on targets.

For a springer you don't need much. It's all about simplicity at close ranges. Hitting little targets by learning wind and trajectory. Having fun.

Most of us learned good accuracy with a sh!tty scope on a rusted rimfire with a broken front sight. We learned It's all about the rifleman. Only a little about the rifle.

The shooter is the component to focus on if you want to hit better. That costs 1.5 cents tuition for every class you take. The guy that spends his money plopping pellets in the dirt at 1.5 cents a shot will eventually figure out how to hit well no matter how he looks down the barrel.

A simple quality optic or iron sights will get him there faster than a scope with flashing lights and adjustment knobs everywhere.
 
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I've used Leapers, UTG's , Nikon EFR no longer available, several different Sightrons, I still have a 4-16x42 SII big sky. SWFA fixed 10 power, Track Toric, Leupold EFR 6-20X40, Athlon and just bought a Hawke for the first time. They all worked and priced according to glass and where they're made.
What I have left out of all that is.....

Athlon 6-24X50 Midas Tac on a prosport (heavy rig)
Hawke Vantage 2-7X32 on a 97K
Sightron bigsky SII 4-16X42 mill dot in "reserve".

I will say the Hawke Vantage is a good deal for $125, the reticle is thicker than I normally like, but it is certainly usable, and it weighs less than a pound. And focuses down to 5 yards. Too soon to tell on the longevity of it.
IMG_7194.jpeg

Look for lifetime warranty whatever you buy. I'm impressed with my Athlon as well. ✌🏻
 
in regard to the scope you actually asked about, the current production model 3-9x33 have been slightly cheapened by low cost manufacturing techniques. Glass is pretty good for the cost though. They do hold up to most springer recoil. They are not regarded as a great dialing scope. They seem to hold zero once “settled in”, but may take several recoil cycles to do so. Clicks are ok, tracking iffy. The forward bell mounted AO is an aged design. Still usable for dialing out parallax, but less user-friendly than most side adjusters. The small(ish) objective results in a softer depth of field. Combine that with the front mounted AO, and ranging is difficult. Also aligning to the narrow eyebox requires a good setup, less conducive to quick shots. All that said, it can be a good option for target and plinking when recoil durability is the key requirement.
 
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Pyramyd Air currently has the Hawke 4-12x40 AO scope for $90 off, $30 cheaper than the Hawke Airmax 2-7x32 and only a couple of ounces heavier. For $199, it's hard to beat.

I recently returned the aforementioned Talos Athlon 3-12x40. The Athlon is falsely advertised as weighing 16 oz. It actually weighed 19.6 ounces, while the Hawke weighs a little less at 19.2 oz. And even though it's supposed to have a 40mm objective lens like the Hawke, it's visibly smaller, and the field of view is much tighter. It appears Talos exaggerates the weight AND lens size to increase sales. It did have a side AO knob, which is a feature usually reserved for higher-end scopes, but it was a struggle to turn. And, unlike the Hawke which can correct for parallax down to 10 yards, the Athlon can only correct down to 15 yards.
 
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This.

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I bought 2 of them 5-6 years ago for $100 each from Midway. I shoot a very similar scope on a Encore 50 cal. I liked it so much I bought these. A little less expensive than the Mark AR but the same idea.

Don't be fooled by the skinny objective size. It's big in there. Clear too. Maybe less depth than a fat scope.

Fine duplex. Wide field of view. 1.5-4 power. I shoot it at 2x and it's just like my naked eye (but in focus).

I put one on my HW95 because I thought I was having scope problems. I liked it. Zeroed @25 the POI @50 was just above the duplex. It was wide and clear. The crosshair wasn't obnoxious.

It would work great for a springer used for plinking or pests at reasonable airgun ranges. Excellent for an offhand scope.

The parallax is supposed to be zero @100 yards. I bobbed my head around at a 25 yard target and figured less than a half inch error. Then I shot a dozen pellets into a 3/4" dia hole.

The gun will do a long string .030 CTC @25 if you are really dialed in with the AO scope and you summon the rifleman within. But a 3/4" hole is no joke. So parallax error wasn't much. It only gets less from there to 100 yards.
 
This.

View attachment 486362

I bought 2 of them 5-6 years ago for $100 each from Midway. I shoot a very similar scope on a Encore 50 cal. I liked it so much I bought these. A little less expensive than the Mark AR but the same idea.

Don't be fooled by the skinny objective size. It's big in there. Clear too. Maybe less depth than a fat scope.

Fine duplex. Wide field of view. 1.5-4 power. I shoot it at 2x and it's just like my naked eye (but in focus).

I put one on my HW95 because I thought I was having scope problems. I liked it. Zeroed @25 the POI @50 was just above the duplex. It was wide and clear. The crosshair wasn't obnoxious.

It would work great for a springer used for plinking or pests at reasonable airgun ranges. Excellent for an offhand scope.

The parallax is supposed to be zero @100 yards. I bobbed my head around at a 25 yard target and figured less than a half inch error. Then I shot a dozen pellets into a 3/4" dia hole.

The gun will do a long string .030 CTC @25 if you are really dialed in with the AO scope and you summon the rifleman within. But a 3/4" hole is no joke. So parallax error wasn't much. It only gets less from there to 100 yards.
Too many people worry about Parallax error. First the greatest parallax error is usually no worse than most shooter error. Second parallax error can easily be eliminated on any scope by looking through the center of the scope. My Hw50 has a 100yd fixed parallax 4x scope it'll put 10 pellets in a round hole barely bigger than a pellet at 10 yards where parallax error should be the greatest.

The most important thing when considering parallax setting is whether or not the scope will be properly in focused at the distance you want to shoot with the magnification you want.

Most 100 yard parallax scopes are meant for centerfire arms but not labeled for such. Most scopes labeled "Rimfire" typically have 50 yard Parallax. Except Leopold Rimfires which are set to 60.

A 3-9x40 Rimfire scope will be in focus at all magnifications at 50 yards. They however tend to get fuzzy at 25 yards at upper powers. You may have to dial them down to 6x and even lower inside of 25 yards.


A 3-9x40 centerfire scope will not likely be in focus at 9X at 50 yards. In order to get focused at 50 you may need to dial it down to 6X. At 25 yards you'll likely need to dial it down to ~4X.

Every scope is different so these are approximates.

A low power scope with 100 yard Parallax may in fact be in focus at usable airgun ranges. You have to look at the exact scope to know. I've looked hard at the Leopold Freedom Rimfire scopes for my Airguns Because of their light weight. Unfortunately even with the 60 yard parallax setting they're not in focus at full power at 25 yards. Also I finally looked through one with their rimfire mildot style reticle. It was a disappointment because it was as thin as my Airmax and the hash marks were so small and close together they'd be tough for me to use in a hurry. It'd be worse for hunting than the Airmax.

Scopes with higher parallax settings can be used if they're already low power or dialed down to low power. My 100 yard 1-6 LPVO is in focus on the other side of my living room at lower powers. My 4X centerfire Hawke on my Hw50 is in focus perfectly from 11 yards out and really usable at 10. I have a Hawke 3-9x40 centerfire scope on my 17hmr. I use the rifle from 20 yards to 150 yards. At 20 yards I need to dial it down to 3X to see clearly. Honestly at 20 yards I don't want more than 3x for hunting because the field of view would be too tight to quickly locate targets.

For bench work high power AO and SF scopes are fine. For casual plinking, pesting and hunting purposes a fixed parallax scope used lower power simplifies a lot. Even simpler is fixed parallax and fixed lower power. For most practical airgun distances a fixed 4x is more than enough for non target work. I've hit pill bottles repeatedly at 73 yards and Small V8 juice cans at 85 yards with my Hw50 with its fixed 4X scope.

Too many people worry about parallax when they should be worried more about focus at practical magnifications for their typical ranges. Another tidbit is I've lost more shots on pest and game because I need time to adjust the AO or SF just to see the target clearly. Also the movement required to make the adjustment can easily give you away too.
 
I typically set my magnification to its lowest setting and the parallax to 25 when hunting. If a long shot presents itself then I'll dial both up, but generally I want them low and close so that I can quickly acquire my target and take any close shots without adjusting anything.

Not being able to find your target because of too much magnification sucks when seconds count. I've got a 10-40x on my tx200 and talk about getting lost in the optic. I only use that for target shooting though, so those instances when it takes me 20 seconds to find my target are just an annoyance. ¹