HW/Weihrauch Scopes - new to break barrel rifles.

[Bedrock Bob]

When you change magnification you change your holdover/under point on the reticle. The only point that remains the same is your crosshair. And thats only if your zero is perfect.

Zooming makes using your dots above and below the crosshair difficult. Translating a 50 yard POA at 3x when the scope is turned up to 6x is complicated.

If you know the range and your drop in inches you can just estimate drop below the crosshair on the target at any magnification. That's tricky with a scurrying rodent at odd ranges in a variable scope.

I always sight in and shoot an airgun at the same magnification. I shoot off a specific spot on the vertical crosshair at each range. At least I try to.

With so much drop and such a parabolic arc out past 50 yards it's just easier (for me) to shoot off the dots than doing a drop curve and hold over on every shot. I use magnification to locate the target and see detail but I turn it back down to 3x and shoot off the dots on the vertical crosshair.

 

[Sawney Bean]

If I’m using a SFP scope, then I figure out my holdover using the highest power in mildots and also in inches. With a 50 yard zero I’ll typically have a 12 yard near zero and about 1.5” max holdunder at 30 yards. That’s good enough for a fast shot on a rabbit. That’s all done from memory.

Most of the scopes I use have a 4 times range of magnification. So at 16x I’ll use the holdover in mildots I’ve got plotted and is written on the masking tape stuck to my scope. If for some reason I wanted to use mildot holdover at 4 or 8 power, then I cut the holdover at 16x in half or fourths.

I also click to set the crosshairs dead on sometimes. You get used to it pretty quick. The only thing I find too challenging is range estimation using mildots, particularly on a SFP where a mildly isn’t necessarily really a mildot.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

If I’m using a SFP scope, then I figure out my holdover using the highest power in mildots and also in inches. With a 50 yard zero I’ll typically have a 12 yard near zero and about 1.5” max holdunder at 30 yards. That’s good enough for a fast shot on a rabbit. That’s all done from memory.

Most of the scopes I use have a 4 times range of magnification. So at 16x I’ll use the holdover in mildots I’ve got plotted and is written on the masking tape stuck to my scope. If for some reason I wanted to use mildot holdover at 4 or 8 power, then I cut the holdover at 16x in half or fourths.

I also click to set the crosshairs dead on sometimes. You get used to it pretty quick. The only thing I find too challenging is range estimation using mildots, particularly on a SFP where a mildly isn’t necessarily really a mildot.

Perfect. A great discussion! Thank you!

I set up about 50 targets from 25-80 and shoot them almost every day. I go from one to the next and back again. Constantly changing ranges between each one. I like to start shotgun shells at 25-30 and knock them out as far as I can with subsequent shots. I don't range any of it. I just shoot and adjust my POA as needed if I miss.

The math and the data for each shot is cumbersome and takes all the fun out of it. And I learn a lot from those misses. Often more than from the hits.

If I was shooting rodents I suppose that wouldn't be the best way to get perfect shots. There would be lots of dead mice under the barn and gimpy rats everywhere. If I was competing where misses really count it would be the same. Your method would definitely be better to insure good placement.

That's probably why I like the iron sights and reactive targets. It does not matter where you hit it as long as it goes down. And ranging is easy over a post with both eyes open and no magnification. You learn your trajectory by instinct and don't think about numbers.

I can transition easier with iron sights. When I miss a little low with the scope I try to rationalize it and I generally miss low again. With irons I just correct and move on.

It seems easier to deal with wind too. Instead of trying to figure it I just feel the wind on my face and shoot accordingly. Like an old sea captain setting a sail. In a scope I'm always looking at "inches" or "dots". Bt the time I think I have it figured out the wind changes.

I can shoot closer patterns with a scope for sure. But I can get just as many hits on objects at varying ranges with irons. At least out to 50 yards or so. And when shooting offhand that magnification can get to be a hindrance. So I'm big on iron sights for airgun plinking. Especially standing with no support.

 

[Sawney Bean]

Perfect. A great discussion! Thank you!

I set up about 50 targets from 25-80 and shoot them almost every day. I go from one to the next and back again. Constantly changing ranges between each one. I like to start shotgun shells at 25-30 and knock them out as far as I can with subsequent shots. I don't range any of it. I just shoot and adjust my POA as needed if I miss.

The math and the data for each shot is cumbersome and takes all the fun out of it. And I learn a lot from those misses. Often more than from the hits.

If I was shooting rodents I suppose that wouldn't be the best way to get perfect shots. There would be lots of dead mice under the barn and gimpy rats everywhere. If I was competing where misses really count it would be the same. Your method would definitely be better to insure good placement.

That's probably why I like the iron sights and reactive targets. It does not matter where you hit it as long as it goes down. And ranging is easy over a post with both eyes open and no magnification. You learn your trajectory by instinct and don't think about numbers.

I can transition easier with iron sights. When I miss a little low with the scope I try to rationalize it and I generally miss low again. With irons I just correct and move on.

It seems easier to deal with wind too. Instead of trying to figure it I just feel the wind on my face and shoot accordingly. Like an old sea captain setting a sail. In a scope I'm always looking at "inches" or "dots". Bt the time I think I have it figured out the wind changes.

I can shoot closer patterns with a scope for sure. But I can get just as many hits on objects at varying ranges with irons. At least out to 50 yards or so. And when shooting offhand that magnification can get to be a hindrance. So I'm big on iron sights for airgun plinking. Especially standing with no support.

The math is really pretty simple and I rarely ever use it. You could also do the same thing in reverse using your method and just multiply your 4x holdover by whatever multiple of four you have your scope turned to.

On a FFP you can avoid having to convert, but what I’ve found is that on a FFP the mildots are virtually useless on lower magnification as they are barely visible.

I suspect that in the future digital scopes will take over and we’ll have the best of both worlds when it comes to reticles. The mildots won’t change their spacing and the reticles will adjust their thickness to be the right size regardless of magnification.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

The math is really pretty simple and I rarely ever use it. You could also do the same thing in reverse using your method and just multiply your 4x holdover by whatever multiple of four you have your scope turned to.

On a FFP you can avoid having to convert, but what I’ve found is that on a FFP the mildots are virtually useless on lower magnification as they are barely visible.

I suspect that in the future digital scopes will take over and we’ll have the best of both worlds when it comes to reticles. The mildots won’t change their spacing and the reticles will adjust their thickness to be the right size regardless of magnification.

The digital capabilities are pretty cool. And they will range too. Vortek is making them for the new military service rifle. Neat stuff.

Before you know it everyone will be using them. Just dial in your trajectory and it adjusts itself. You can mark a miss with a digital aiming point and shoot off that too. I guess it's quite a system. It will even recognize a friendly target.

It's still Kentucky windage for me. Fixed power and iron sights for an air rifle.

I have a Vortek 6-20 VIper 50mm side focus on my varmint rifle. I like it and it's OK for long range. The glass is good. Not much field of view even on low power. Focus is iffy on high power. Crosshairs are too fat.

It's big. It works. I'm not overly excited about it. I liked the Leupold VX3 4x12 I took off better.

It was all the rage when I bought it. I'd like to replace it someday. I'll probably just put the Leupold back on and buy another air rifle instead.

 

[K3JB-1]

Greetings all, after much research and your guidance from recommendations and speaking with a few Dealers. I have purchased a Leupold VX freedom 3-9x40 Rimfire MOA. American made with an excellent warranty. Cost was less than $230.00. Will see how it works for my needs. Thanks very much, your a great group and will continue learning from ya'll .

 

[Mycapt65]

Greetings all, after much research and your guidance from recommendations and speaking with a few Dealers. I have purchased a Leupold VX freedom 3-9x40 Rimfire MOA. American made with an excellent warranty. Cost was less than $230.00. Will see how it works for my needs. Thanks very much, your a great group and will continue learning from ya'll .

That's an excellent price on that scope. If you like it, I'd suggest buying a couple more if you can.

 

[K3JB-1]

Good idea, the store is a local (non chain) gun and fishing store that always offer good discounts.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

Greetings all, after much research and your guidance from recommendations and speaking with a few Dealers. I have purchased a Leupold VX freedom 3-9x40 Rimfire MOA. American made with an excellent warranty. Cost was less than $230.00. Will see how it works for my needs. Thanks very much, your a great group and will continue learning from ya'll .

You rascal. Now everyone is going to have to have one.

That's a great price and a great scope. You just can't do much better for a springer.

 

[K3JB-1]

Thanks to ya’ll for getting me pointed in that direction.

 

[KWK]

Greetings all, after much research and your guidance from recommendations and speaking with a few Dealers. I have purchased a Leupold VX freedom 3-9x40 Rimfire MOA. American made with an excellent warranty. Cost was less than $230.00. Will see how it works for my needs. Thanks very much, your a great group and will continue learning from ya'll .

Made in America tough from Chinese stuff? Parallax free at 60 yards.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

Made in America tough from Chinese stuff? Parallax free at 60 yards.

I seen 2 pictures of the bottom stampings and ??

Check picture 4

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/14289526/wts-leupold-vx-freedom-rimfire-3-9x40mm

And this one

Still I take any made in with a grain of salt ..lol

 

[KWK]

We know the lenses are imported. What else?

 

[nhraj700]

Leopold makes a mil dot .22 scope without parallax adjustments. It's set for 60 yards. When I buy another that's what I'll get.

I like your thoughts on maintaining the simplicity of a scope. I need to replace the stock 4x32 scope and gimmicky hunting light and red laser on my GAMO Varmint Hunter 177 break barrel. Would this nice Leupold scope be overkill on an entry level rifle such as this? It has been a fairly good rifle for me since 2008 for thinning out the squirrels and rabbits from our property, but the scope is cheap and the mounts are wearing out and need to be replaced. If this Leupold is overkill, what would you put on this rifle? You mention the Hawke Vantage will eventually succumb to the forces of the air rifle but you say it is a good scope. Is that Hawke more in line with what I should put on it? I paid about $200 for this in 08' at Cabelas and I am now shocked to see it's $125. This was my first air rifle. I'm pulling my hair out trying to decide on a path forward. I would like to give this to my grandson when he gets old enough. I have a RWS Diana 48, a Hatsan AT44-10 QE LR and Daystate Wolverine and all of the scopes were fairly easy choices because of the quality and cost of the rifle. I just need a good hunting scope with very solid mounts as this gun is very light and user friendly. The rifle is not machined with a drop pin relief, so GAMO put the scope and one piece mount with drop pin recess on a scope rail on top of the dovetail. Not sure if I should try to convert to Picatinny or what. Any input is greatly appreciated.

 

[Duckfish]

I have several Hawke scopes. The Vantage line is a good scope but an airgun will scramble them sooner or later. Lifetime warranty and the service is good. I have a Hawke airmax that has held up well. For target it is fine but for hunting and plinking it's worthless. The crosshairs are too fine and too much "stuff" on the reticle.

Leopold makes a mil dot .22 scope without parallax adjustments. It's set for 60 yards. When I buy another that's what I'll get.

Sightron and Athlon make good scopes too.

For me the AO is unimportant. If you want to shoot tiny patterns on paper it helps. But it's no big deal to have a fixed focus scope. I always "Bob my head" a little setting up the shot to center my eye. That takes care of most error. My AO scopes get set about 35 yards and forgotten. So an AO is not worth the extra for me.

I like the 32mm objective. You just don't need a huge objective mounted high. Keep a 32mm mounted as low as you can get it and you sidestep a bunch of issues.

I have tried every mount on the planet for airguns. Most suck. Most are too high. Most slip. I only use Sportsmatch 2 piece low (32mm obj.) And medium (40mm obj.). I also like a utg picatinny rail with Burris steel z rings on the hard kicking Hatsans. Still on those rough guns iron sights work best.

Warne or Talleys on a rail will work perfectly but the mounts will cost more than the scope. Probably the rifle too. I use them on all my high powered rifles but are overkill on an airgun.

Regular cheap scope rings just won't work on ANY gun. Especially on an 11mm dovetail. The UTG, RWS, BLK etc will work if you can match them with your scope/gun to get proper eye relief. One piece mounts often have limited eye relief adjustment. Be careful or you will have a pile of mounts that just won't put the scope in the right spot. And if you get the scope too high you will be buying a cheek rest to get cheek weld.

A scope with an objective the size of a satellite dish mounted high will slip easier. If it's got batteries, adjustment knobs, an onboard computer and a wet bar it will have a bunch of inertia way up there. It will slip easier. It will break sooner. It will require a cheek rest. It's going to give you tons of rise between the muzzle and your zero range. The martinis will be shaken and not stirred. Stuff will fall off and features will break. Sooner or later a guy realizes all he needs is a fixed 4x that does nothing more than what's intended.

On my HW95 I have a 32mm Hawke vantage and low Spotsmatch 4 screw rings. It's perfect. Sits 1/8" above the barrel. Perfect cheek weld. No slipping EVER. Same on the HW97 only medium height rings with a 40mm scope. Solid as a rock. The only mounts I didn't have to fiddle with constantly. Sportsmatch is what I'll buy from here on out. Rock solid and they won't break the bank.

Lots of guys like one piece mounts. They are great as long as the distance between the rings matches your scope configuration. Some airgun scopes have long eyepieces and short tubes and not all rails will work. So it's a bit of trial and error that can be expensive. They all have dimensions listed and I suggest looking closely and comparing them to the scope you select.

Whatever mount you get needs a recoil lug. Whatever scope you get needs a lifetime warranty. The rest is small potatoes. Don't fall for a bunch of crap like illuminated reticle, changing colors or other fashion. It's garbage. You need it to be solid and not slip and be able to return it. Nothing else matters that much.

A variable power is great but you don't really need that either. A fixed power scope with 4x is fine. A 3x9 is good. You just don't need much more than 6x unless your competing. Even then you dont need it. Changing magnification changes your POA so if your using your mil dots a variable power is a huge pain. I sight in and shoot at 3x. I may use magnification to find and evaluate the target but i turn it back down to 3x to shoot. I rarely use the zoom. Never for a shot.

For some guys all the gadgets and knobs are precious. You can get them if you think you need them. But a simple fixed 4x scope with a 32mm objective mounted as low as you can get it works great. All the other candy is just an extra expense that has very little benefit.

Just my two cents and I'll only charge you a nickel.

2 cents?

 

[Scotchmo]

Too many people worry about Parallax error. First the greatest parallax error is usually no worse than most shooter error...

It depends on the scope. I have a 6-24x50 FFP scope that I tried in UKHFT with the parallax set at 25yds for the whole match. A little head movement shifted the reticle completely outside the kill zone. Very bad scope for that purpose. When I adjust the parallax wheel, it’s a great scope. I also have a fixed parallax 12x scope on my speed gun that has very little parallax error when bobbing. It’s good from 25yds to 100yds

 

[Bedrock Bob]

I like your thoughts on maintaining the simplicity of a scope. I need to replace the stock 4x32 scope and gimmicky hunting light and red laser on my GAMO Varmint Hunter 177 break barrel. Would this nice Leupold scope be overkill on an entry level rifle such as this? It has been a fairly good rifle for me since 2008 for thinning out the squirrels and rabbits from our property, but the scope is cheap and the mounts are wearing out and need to be replaced. If this Leupold is overkill, what would you put on this rifle? You mention the Hawke Vantage will eventually succumb to the forces of the air rifle but you say it is a good scope. Is that Hawke more in line with what I should put on it? I paid about $200 for this in 08' at Cabelas and I am now shocked to see it's $125. This was my first air rifle. I'm pulling my hair out trying to decide on a path forward. I would like to give this to my grandson when he gets old enough. I have a RWS Diana 48, a Hatsan AT44-10 QE LR and Daystate Wolverine and all of the scopes were fairly easy choices because of the quality and cost of the rifle. I just need a good hunting scope with very solid mounts as this gun is very light and user friendly. The rifle is not machined with a drop pin relief, so GAMO put the scope and one piece mount with drop pin recess on a scope rail on top of the dovetail. Not sure if I should try to convert to Picatinny or what. Any input is greatly appreciated.

I'd go with the Hawke on a Gamo rifle. The leupold is a bit spendy. For me. For that rifle.

Both have lifetime warranty. The leupold is a better scope. But the Hawke is a good value. Either is a good choice.

I like the fixed 4x Hawke vantage. Some guys want variable power. The 2x7 or 3x9 Hawkes are good. They all have adjustable AO if you think you need that. The leupold doesn't. IMHO that's not a big deal.

All scopes take a beating on an air rifle and you can have trouble. Send it back to Hawke and they replace it. Same with leupold. The Hawke will probably break faster. But then maybe not.

If you want a scope that will outlast the gun the leupold is it. It's a great scope. But for an inexpensive gun the Hawke is my choice. Either one will get the job done for you.

There are lots of good scopes out there only a few bucks more than Hawke. I have no experience with them. They may be a better scope. All I can tell you is the Hawkes have worked pretty well and we're replaced promptly when they failed. So I stuck with them.

My favorite scope is the fixed 4x Hawke on my HW95. I set the AO somewhere between 40-50 and forget it. It cost $99 bucks and has had lots of shots through it.

I'll replace it with a leupold soon. But it will go on a Hatsan 95 that I shoot daily. I'll put more shots on the Hawke scope than I ever will on the leupold. I just feel the higher quality rifle warrants a better scope. No other reason.

What mounts may work on your rifle I don't know. I like a low utg cantelevered picatinny on my Hatsans. I use Burris steel rings over it. Sportsmatch rings are good.

Cheap rings suck. They aren't worth the bother. They will slip. You will use tape, shims, CA glue and lacquer. You will strip the screws. Crush scope tubes trying to get them to hold.

What may work to get the right eye relief on your gun I don't know. I've never shot a Gamo or looked at one closely. Any quality mount that puts the eyebell in the right position and doesn't slip is great as long as it zeroes the scope near optical center. And that opens up another can of worms all together.

I hope that helps some. Good luck!

 

[Bedrock Bob]

2 cents?

Please remit payment immediately.

 

[bustachip]

I'd go with the Hawke on a Gamo rifle. The leupold is a bit spendy. For me. For that rifle.

Both have lifetime warranty. The leupold is a better scope. But the Hawke is a good value. Either is a good choice.

I like the fixed 4x Hawke vantage. Some guys want variable power. The 2x7 or 3x9 Hawkes are good. They all have adjustable AO if you think you need that. The leupold doesn't. IMHO that's not a big deal.

All scopes take a beating on an air rifle and you can have trouble. Send it back to Hawke and they replace it. Same with leupold. The Hawke will probably break faster. But then maybe not.

If you want a scope that will outlast the gun the leupold is it. It's a great scope. But for an inexpensive gun the Hawke is my choice. Either one will get the job done for you.

There are lots of good scopes out there only a few bucks more than Hawke. I have no experience with them. They may be a better scope. All I can tell you is the Hawkes have worked pretty well and we're replaced promptly when they failed. So I stuck with them.

My favorite scope is the fixed 4x Hawke on my HW95. I set the AO somewhere between 40-50 and forget it. It cost $99 bucks and has had lots of shots through it.

I'll replace it with a leupold soon. But it will go on a Hatsan 95 that I shoot daily. I'll put more shots on the Hawke scope than I ever will on the leupold. I just feel the higher quality rifle warrants a better scope. No other reason.

What mounts may work on your rifle I don't know. I like a low utg cantelevered picatinny on my Hatsans. I use Burris steel rings over it. Sportsmatch rings are good. Cheap rings suck. What may work to get the right eye relief on your gun I don't know. I've never shot a Gamo or looked at one closely. Any quality mount that puts the eyeball in the right position and doesn't slip is great as long as it zeroes the scope near optical center. And then that opens up another can of worms.

I hope that helps some.

Is the 4X a vantage or a airmax?

 

[Bedrock Bob]

Is the 4X a vantage or a airmax?

It's a Vantage.