scuba tank for pcp questions…

[badger5th]

Thoughts on something like this?

View attachment 298023

OK, I understand you want to keep costs down. That is a great price BUT that particular tank is 2008 manufacture. With a standard 15 year approved service life the one you indicate turns into a pumpkin next year. I went to the website you quoted from above. If you look at one of their 45 minute tanks with a 2013 date those sell for $500.00. even that tank is only good for another 6 years.

My personal advise is to simply buy a new CF tank from a reputable airgun vendor. You'll be able to find something easy in the $500-$600 range. It will come with the correct valve and hose for most airguns and will be good to go for 4-5 years before the first required hydro test.

 

[steve-l]

I have said this before many times, but I will repeat again because it is important. The most expensive part of PCP is HPA. It is much more expensive than any air gun or two. Yes, you will get more shots from a 4500 PSI tank than a 3000 PSI tank, but that extra pressure comes at a significant cost in equipment stress and maintenance and the increase in shot count is not as much as advertised, nor is it so important as a gun recharge takes only seconds. We should be talking about air volume, not air pressure.

HPA cost is not just compressors or tanks, it is everything you use for HPA and it is expensive. There is no such thing as cheap HPA. You will pay up front or in back, but pay you will. I use a Bauer 4 cylinder compressor. It is not new. It was made in 1968. It is bullet proof! I use two aluminum SCUBA 12 liter bottles and a newly arrived 12 liter CF bottle. I charge all my bottles to 235 bar, not more. I can shoot my PP700SA every day (about 40 shots) for a month on one 12 liter tank. I shoot my .25 FX Crown from a full (480cc) gun bottle about 70 shots and one 12 liter bottle will support shooting all day at the range. The regulator on the pistol is set to 100 bar. The regulator on the Crown is set to 135 bar. My 12 liter bottle recharge time is around 8 minutes with my compressor. I use the CF bottle for the range because it is lighter than the scuba bottles.

In conclusion, it is far too easy to fool yourself into thinking there is inexpensive HPA by buying those Chinese compressors or dive shop fills, but it is a fool's errand to think your HPA is less expensive. It is not and will not be. Please do your own honest cost analysis. Remember, time and convenience is not for free either nor is car fuel. If you are truly committed to PCP as a hobby, do it right, pay once and cry once.

 

[Mr303]

12 years ago I was a certified Scott SCBA tech.
I would not recommend anything but a Carbon Fiber tank with a proper slow fill valve.
SCBA tank valves are 1/4 turn, full volume affairs because of the nature of an SCBA, where a slow fill valve is needed for more controllable and much easier re-filling, thus making it a safer operation overall.
CF tanks are durable, lighter in weight and those two features alone make them the best choice for my money.
If a CF tank gets scraped or the fiberglas gets torn a little, a simple epoxy will fix minor dings etc. without compromising the tank itself.

I hated to drop almost $1000 for the tank set I just purchased but I saw no up side to using my compressor to fill the guns in the field.
A month or so ago when I bought my pcp, my initial thought was that filling via compressor in the field would be "do-able" but reality showed me that a self-contained tank fill setup was faster easier and less restrictive than a compressor based set up.
So that being said , I just spent $16 got 97.4cu ft of 4500psi shooting air, that refills my AV Avenger Bullpup ~75 times or 2600 rounds.
And no I don’t fill my guns to 4500psi but I can if I want to.

Except for the upfront costs thats valuable shooting time I won’t lose due to waiting for the pump to work.
When I do decide to upgrade to a larger caliber/air tank gun the tank I have will still be useful and a time saver.
Unless you are toting it around in the field buy the largest CF tank set up you can find.
"Buy once cry once" is true for tools and hobbies I have learned that lesson the hard way more than once.
Thats my 2 cents worth

edit.
I just re-read a couple postings and would like to volunteer some personal opinion about "used" or "out of date
" cylinders bought from eBay or Asia….don’t.
Not knowing the service life or maintenance schedule of a CF (or any hp tank) is sketchy at best in my educated opinion. Did they clean the smoke stains off using something that might have had benzene in it, or was the un-used "like new" cylinder stored in a chemical plant where fumes could decay the fibers without visible damage? Any number of issues and unknown concerns are just not worth saving money for.
Sure we can fill out of date tanks with our home hp compressors but until you see how much destruction comes from an exploding tank you really can’t appreciate the pressures being contained.
If I did buy something even remotely sketchy I would hydro-test anything purchased just for peace of mind.
HP tanks fail catastrophically, I never encountered bleed off or leak down failures.
Gladly we never had any cylinder explode in use or while filling. But I’ve seen the training films!
I maintained over 300 heavily used Luxfer and Eaton CF cylinders as a maintenance man for a volunteer FD. The Chief required me to hydro those cylinders once a year due to the continuous use they received even though that was not required by DOT or NFPA

As a side note.
I just saw an info piece about a possible change for Navy cylinder testing protocols. Recently there is a more reliable less detrimental (hydro testing stresses tanks) test using sound to "map" a cylinder looking for weakness within the actual structure. Since the Navy alone buys and maintains thousands of cylinders annually (I think the number was upwards of 900,000) a more accurate predictor of longevity will save lives and money in the long run. The "actual" service life when using sound mapping was typically beyond the current 15 year cycle.

 

[jdh2550]

Go to a few nearby Fire Departments. Find out who they buy their new tanks from. Contacting that vendor would be a good first step in buying a used tank. My local vendor sells used tanks at $50/good year left on the certification. They are always filled to 4500 psi when I buy them. Its the cheapest way I found to get into the PCP game safely.

 

[450BM]

This is all great information and very much appreciated! I’m going slow with this and weighing all my options. Was too distracted today and forgot all about calling the dive shops to see what they offer, hopefully I‘ll remember tomorrow.

Thank you to all for the responses!

 

[Mr303]

Go to a few nearby Fire Departments. Find out who they buy their new tanks from. Contacting that vendor would be a good first step in buying a used tank. My local vendor sells used tanks at $50/good year left on the certification. They are always filled to 4500 psi when I buy them. Its the cheapest way I found to get into the PCP game safely.

Who does that? How many years old are those because that sounds like the deal of the day! In Denver here a hydro is $25-30. Do they sell the small cylinders?

 

[jdh2550]

This is all great information and very much appreciated! I’m going slow with this and weighing all my options. Was too distracted today and forgot all about calling the dive shops to see what they offer, hopefully I‘ll remember tomorrow.

Thank you to all for the responses!

I see you are in Williamsport PA. I’m in the Harrisburg PA area. If you call The Fire Store in Abbottstown Pa they will help you out with used tanks. I think I deal with Mike. Small store but very helpful and friendly people. Tell Mike what you want, he understands what PCP airgun is and what we want tanks for.

The Scuba dive shop in Lancaster will fill tanks to 4,500 psi. Just ask them to fill slow because you need top end air.

Hope this helps.

 

[jdh2550]

Who does that? How many years old are those because that sounds like the deal of the day! In Denver here a hydro is $25-30. Do they sell the small cylinders?

Lots of fire departments turn in tanks with a year or two of life left on them. Mainly because they apply for grant money before the tanks are expired. Then they get a trade in on used tanks that still have some life on them. Many have 1-3 years life left on their certification.

They sell all the sizes a fire department uses. Even the real big ones to cascade fill. I’m sure those are more expensive though.

If you don’t care about expiration because you fill on your own, at your own risk, many fire departments throw them in the dumpster when they are expired.

 

[450BM]

I see you are in Williamsport PA. I’m in the Harrisburg PA area. If you call The Fire Store in Abbottstown Pa they will help you out with used tanks. I think I deal with Mike. Small store but very helpful and friendly people. Tell Mike what you want, he understands what PCP airgun is and what we want tanks for.

The Scuba dive shop in Lancaster will fill tanks to 4,500 psi. Just ask them to fill slow because you need top end air.

Hope this helps.

That does help! I’m actually North of Williamsport about 45 min but get down to Harrisburg for my job several times a year. I’ll give them a call.