New to the forum and new to this airgun thing. I wanted to know thoughts on ammo testing, and what procedures everyone uses between different manufacturers. When testing ammo in my rimfires I would always clean the barrel with a boresnake and at least put acouple magazines through it with the ammo to be tested before looking for groups. Just recently purchased a Beeman R9 and have a few sampler ammo packs from H/N and JSB. I cleaned the barrel when I first got the rifle but not between rounds, when going from one brand to another point of impact was all over the place for afew rounds before settling down. Just seeing what some thoughts are, and if cleaning barrel is necessary between manufacturers. Thanks!
Seasoning Barrel while ammo testing.
- Thread starter R9Airhead
- Start date
I am new to this to and all I can say that the answer everyone is gonna give you is. That yes you need to clean no you don't need to your AG isn't broken in till 100 pellets etc. What I do know as a known fact that you have to figure out what your gun likes and yes its as BS as it sounds but they are really that finikey.
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Good call on cleaning the new barrel. Most of us don't clean much after that other than pulling a dry patch through after a few thousand rounds, at least for the springers like the R9. Barrels do break in between 300 and 700 rounds, so the first tin of pellets are usually considered seasoning pellets. When testing I usually shoot 5 or 6 of a new pellet before testing for accuracy with no cleaning in between.
We have no corrosive gunpowder residue, so excess lead fills the scratches in the rifling. Most important is that you don't leave oil or solvent in the barrel after cleaning or it will diesel.
A little whiff of smoke is fine, if it's louder than your rimfire, pull a couple dry patches before shooting or you may break the spring and damage the piston seal.
We have no corrosive gunpowder residue, so excess lead fills the scratches in the rifling. Most important is that you don't leave oil or solvent in the barrel after cleaning or it will diesel.
A little whiff of smoke is fine, if it's louder than your rimfire, pull a couple dry patches before shooting or you may break the spring and damage the piston seal.
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With my HW springers a clean bore will shoot to a different point of impact (also group size) than an uncleaned bore! Here is the first patch I pulled through the bore of my brand new .177 Beeman R9 straight from the box. LOL, the price gives you an indication that it was bought a couple decades ago..........
What I do is to first pull through a few patches till they are no longer "dirtied", then I shoot a couple dozen pellets to "season the bore" and "settle down" the poi. After that my poi is pretty consistent for a few hundred pellets and then the accuracy will "fall off" and the bore clean/seasoning is repeated.
For cleaning my bores I've always used a "Crown Saver" pull through cleaner like this (old and new).........
https://www.mac1airgunshop.com/jl-crown-saver-p/jlcs.htm
What I do is to first pull through a few patches till they are no longer "dirtied", then I shoot a couple dozen pellets to "season the bore" and "settle down" the poi. After that my poi is pretty consistent for a few hundred pellets and then the accuracy will "fall off" and the bore clean/seasoning is repeated.
For cleaning my bores I've always used a "Crown Saver" pull through cleaner like this (old and new).........
https://www.mac1airgunshop.com/jl-crown-saver-p/jlcs.htm
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Upon getting a new rifle, I do what some folks recommend and run a brush thru the barrel 20 times up and back with JB Bore Cleaner on it, then clean that out with Hopper #9 on patches. Then dry patches until I'm happy. When possible, I clean from the breech. If I can't. I clean from the muzzle, but always with a one piece coated Dewey rod.
Some guys advise against cleaning from the muzzle, being concerned about the crown. Personally, I'm aware of the crown, and take care. If you're of the thought that using a rod from the muzzle is always a bad idea, then use another method.
I don't clean between brands of pellets, but I do not expect optimum groups for a while. That said, none of my rifles are particularly finicky about that. But currently, I only use JSB Heavy Jumbo 18.13s or H&N FTT 14.66 (5.5) in my rifles. If I fed them Crosman Premier pellets, I might change my MO...
OP, I formed my opinions from the opinions of other, better informed individuals...so if I could suggest something, immerse yourself in the available intel on the World Wide Web to form your own opinions and knowledge!
Good luck!
Some guys advise against cleaning from the muzzle, being concerned about the crown. Personally, I'm aware of the crown, and take care. If you're of the thought that using a rod from the muzzle is always a bad idea, then use another method.
I don't clean between brands of pellets, but I do not expect optimum groups for a while. That said, none of my rifles are particularly finicky about that. But currently, I only use JSB Heavy Jumbo 18.13s or H&N FTT 14.66 (5.5) in my rifles. If I fed them Crosman Premier pellets, I might change my MO...
OP, I formed my opinions from the opinions of other, better informed individuals...so if I could suggest something, immerse yourself in the available intel on the World Wide Web to form your own opinions and knowledge!
Good luck!
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I believe there is one absolutely firm rule to this barrel cleaning/seasoning thing, which is, there are no firm rules! Barrels will get dirty and lose accuracy. Some barrels require considerable seasoning after cleaning, others, practically none. You have to figure out what works in your barrel.
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I got a gun recently and cleaned the barrel then went to sight in at 55yds. First 10 shots were within a dime on an "unseasoned" barrel. Others though I've noticed take 10-20 shots. Really depends on the barrel.
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Ok..... I bought a used gun. Obviously never been cleaned. It wasn't as accurate as I'd hoped it would be and considered selling it. But I thought I might clean the barrel and give it a chance. These are the first 3 patches through the gun. it is obvious that the owner didn't clean this gun... ever.... After I got all the black out, I starting getting RUST!.
Anyway, Once I cleaned it, the fliers stopped and it was pellet on pellet. I know what this gun likes. I'll clean it every 500 shots or so with a couple of dry patches and then give it a good cleaning every 2000 shots or so. By good cleaning I mean one wet with balistol and 3 dry to clean out the oil. My suspicion is that this gun likes to be just a little dirty. (there's a song in there somewhere)
here are the pics of the patches...
After all that dirt, I started getting rust. Used Corbin bore cleaner to get this stuff out.
Just thought I'd add this to the conversation
Crusher
Anyway, Once I cleaned it, the fliers stopped and it was pellet on pellet. I know what this gun likes. I'll clean it every 500 shots or so with a couple of dry patches and then give it a good cleaning every 2000 shots or so. By good cleaning I mean one wet with balistol and 3 dry to clean out the oil. My suspicion is that this gun likes to be just a little dirty. (there's a song in there somewhere)
here are the pics of the patches...
After all that dirt, I started getting rust. Used Corbin bore cleaner to get this stuff out.
Just thought I'd add this to the conversation
Crusher
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"Once I cleaned it, the fliers stopped and it was pellet on pellet"
Years ago I did some work on a HW97 that a friend of my brother owned and the claim was that the gun wasn't accurate so I was to "check it out". When I asked, the owner claimed that he cleaned his bore and the accuracy was still bad.
I went through the gun tweaking "here and there" believing that the bore had already been cleaned and the gun simply wouldn't group well. Just for grins I cleaned the bore as a last resort and this is the result.............
Noticing that the gun was fitted with a 3-12x40 Hawke Airmax I shot a couple pellets at 10 yards to see if the poi would shift simply by focusing. I owned the exact make and model of scope and it "poi shifted" simply by focusing so I tested the 3-12x40 Hawke AirMax that was mounted to the HW97. Yup...the poi shifted laterally to the right just like the AirMax AO I owned for a while. The lower "two shot bull" proved the shift.
Anywhoo........I've read reports from shooters who claimed that they never needed to clean their bores, however that hasn't been my experience. Here is a target I shot with my .177 HW95 and the grouping on the "sight in bull" wasn't good so I shot a couple more groups. Then I did the first thing when the grouping "goes south", I cleaned the bore...............
Years ago I did some work on a HW97 that a friend of my brother owned and the claim was that the gun wasn't accurate so I was to "check it out". When I asked, the owner claimed that he cleaned his bore and the accuracy was still bad.
I went through the gun tweaking "here and there" believing that the bore had already been cleaned and the gun simply wouldn't group well. Just for grins I cleaned the bore as a last resort and this is the result.............
Noticing that the gun was fitted with a 3-12x40 Hawke Airmax I shot a couple pellets at 10 yards to see if the poi would shift simply by focusing. I owned the exact make and model of scope and it "poi shifted" simply by focusing so I tested the 3-12x40 Hawke AirMax that was mounted to the HW97. Yup...the poi shifted laterally to the right just like the AirMax AO I owned for a while. The lower "two shot bull" proved the shift.
Anywhoo........I've read reports from shooters who claimed that they never needed to clean their bores, however that hasn't been my experience. Here is a target I shot with my .177 HW95 and the grouping on the "sight in bull" wasn't good so I shot a couple more groups. Then I did the first thing when the grouping "goes south", I cleaned the bore...............
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To add to what nced says, when accuracy starts to suffer, the first thing I do is check the tightness of the stock and scope screws. More often than not, that's the problem. Then I'll clean the barrel. Between those two, I've not yet failed to bring a rifle back to shooting as it should. I can't always depend on Loctite 242/290 working as they should.
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Note that what works with the pellet rifles probably works differently with the larger bores. And PCPs differ from Springers n such. For example, you CAN use oil in a CO2 rifle and in PCPs, just not in Springers because they can diesel. (The Springer generates heat of compression, the PCP is air in expansion and is truthfully too cold and not a good ignition point. Too many people just keep the misinformation going)
I stopped shooting the small bores a few years ago and only shoot big bore, .357 n .457 which have to be cleaned much more often than my old pellet rifles. So even though there is no powder residue there seems a higher tendency to lead, even in polished barrels. I have three different .357 airrifles and they all do better if wiped with a damp patch of Ballistol mixed 1:4 with water evey 40 or 50 shots and brushed every 150 or so. Same for my .45 rifle.
There does seem to be a small seasoning of 4 or 5 shots needed for these rifles.
I stopped shooting the small bores a few years ago and only shoot big bore, .357 n .457 which have to be cleaned much more often than my old pellet rifles. So even though there is no powder residue there seems a higher tendency to lead, even in polished barrels. I have three different .357 airrifles and they all do better if wiped with a damp patch of Ballistol mixed 1:4 with water evey 40 or 50 shots and brushed every 150 or so. Same for my .45 rifle.
There does seem to be a small seasoning of 4 or 5 shots needed for these rifles.
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"I can't always depend on Loctite 242/290 working as they should"
The LocTite isn't always the issue because the wood under the mounting screw heads will expand & contract with changes in moisture levels and the stock can get loose when the wood shrinks even though the mounting screws are holding firm.
To combat this issue I made up some "piloted steel screw cups" that create a "metal to metal" connection between the screw heads and stock mounting brackets......
I even went so far as to "steel post" my large front trigger guard screw........
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If I understand your question correctly, you are asking if one needs to strip the bore between pellet brands as you would to remove jacket fouling in a PB from different brand bullets. Hi power folks use the same brand bullets (albeit in different weights) for the 200, 300 and 600 legs of a course so as not to mix jacket fouling which can affect accuracy and POI. Same for powder fouling in some instances.
The answer to that question is, generally, "No" so long as you are using lead pellets.
Most competitors do not clean an airgun bore until they notice a change of group size with their favorite, carefully chosen and prepped pellet. However, when you do clean the bore, you will notice that it takes a lot of pellets to reseason it until you get the same POI with the same pellet. Don't touch those knobs and it will come back in after 20 or 30 shots. Nothing worse than clicking too soon and having your zero return to its original settings in the middle of a match.
As stated above, a new (or new to you) bore needs serious cleaning to get rid of factory goo and machining bits. JBs and Kroil work well followed by patches until white and then a light coat od FP-10. For me, with a squeaky clean bore, it takes about 50 shots before I feel comfortable testing different pellets for accuracy.
Others may disagree, but it works for me.
The answer to that question is, generally, "No" so long as you are using lead pellets.
Most competitors do not clean an airgun bore until they notice a change of group size with their favorite, carefully chosen and prepped pellet. However, when you do clean the bore, you will notice that it takes a lot of pellets to reseason it until you get the same POI with the same pellet. Don't touch those knobs and it will come back in after 20 or 30 shots. Nothing worse than clicking too soon and having your zero return to its original settings in the middle of a match.
As stated above, a new (or new to you) bore needs serious cleaning to get rid of factory goo and machining bits. JBs and Kroil work well followed by patches until white and then a light coat od FP-10. For me, with a squeaky clean bore, it takes about 50 shots before I feel comfortable testing different pellets for accuracy.
Others may disagree, but it works for me.
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I did not see many comments on the testing so I will chime in there.
Again no hard and fast rule. I always like to shoot about 5 of the "new" pellet before I shoot that pellet for groups. Some say it does not matter, and in some cases I would agree, others not so much. I have seen those first 5 shoot better then the next 5....I think you would want to know that....I have seen those first 5 look like a shot gun pattern at 50 yards. No rime or reason to it.
You sound like you know about how picky eaters rimfire can be, pellet guns are worse then a 4yr old with a plate full of veggies and then the cake in the middle of the table.
Welcome to the nut house.
Again no hard and fast rule. I always like to shoot about 5 of the "new" pellet before I shoot that pellet for groups. Some say it does not matter, and in some cases I would agree, others not so much. I have seen those first 5 shoot better then the next 5....I think you would want to know that....I have seen those first 5 look like a shot gun pattern at 50 yards. No rime or reason to it.
You sound like you know about how picky eaters rimfire can be, pellet guns are worse then a 4yr old with a plate full of veggies and then the cake in the middle of the table.
Welcome to the nut house.
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"No" so long as you are using lead pellets."
Perhaps there would be a need to clean if switching from a hard lead Crosman pellet (alloyed with antimony) to a pure lead pellet like the JSB Exact. When shooting the die lot marked and dated Crosman Premiers from the 1250 count cardboard box I found that they would foul my R9 bores rapidly till I started lubing the pellets with Slick One Lube aerosol spray. I haven't shot the "pure lead" pellets enough to know if they'll resist fouling but I've READ that they do.
Anywhoo.....pellets do leave some residue in the bore so it SEEMS that switching between some pellets without a bore clean can affect the poi.
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