Thanks for the reply. Are they regulated? And how much power variance is available from the hammer spring adjustment?
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Seeking Gun Suggestions and info
- Thread starter Lost in the Redwoods
- Start date
I vote a +1 on the two gun plan. The coyote problem needs a much bigger gun than the small rodent problem, and it will be cheaper in the end to have two guns.
I would also suggest to do as much as practical besides the guns to control the problems, as such controls can work while you're not around to aim and fire. Plus if it ever comes into question, you would have done all you could to control the problem without shooting anything.
I live in the north east bay area, next to undeveloped open space, and like you we have coyotes, raccoons, pocket gophers, rats, hawks and huge horned owls. No voles though. We also keep chickens. The best defence I have found is "de fence" that goes around the chicken yard. I put monofilament mesh netting over the whole top of the yard, 4", 50x50 feet, strung from fence to fence and up above rope tied to 8' rebar tripods in the middle of the chicken yard. That keeps the coyotes, hawks and owls out. For the raccoons, I lock the chickens up at night in a sturdy coop (Eglu from Omlet.us ; they even have a light-sensing door that will close at night in case you come home late - _very_ CA techie). I bring in the chicken food bin every night so that the rats don't get any to feed their numbers. For the pocket gophers, my wife likes the "gopher gasser" smoke bombs as she is more into demolition and pyrotechnics, and I like the traps: the Macabee size seems to work well for those little gophers we have here in CA. Remenber to tie them to something ouyside the hole. And every gopher snake the neighbors screech at gets relocated to my backyard. (Maybe it is the same snake, over and over? It _is_ getting bigger each time.)
Regarding the guns, I can't advise for the 'yotes, but have you considered an inexpensive multi-pump for the rodents? They are quite accurate at your 10-20 yards, and it may even pay for itself by the time you factor in the cheaper .177/.22 ammo. My Daisy multi-pump is my go-to for rats, as I can match power to the backstop, and a bigger multipump like the Dragonfly or a Crosman 397/2 would also handle squirrels, if they ever become a problem. A CO2 gun would also work as it doesn't get that cold in the South Bay. If I were to $pend on a ratting setup, I'd get a cheaper gun and good IR nightvision scope, like an ATN or such. Juggling flashlights, pumping and fumbling pellets all at the same time gets old. I have one of those $100 IR cameras with light that attaches to a regular scope, and I'm glad I don't have a real rat problem because that setup bites runny rodent droppings.
I would also suggest to do as much as practical besides the guns to control the problems, as such controls can work while you're not around to aim and fire. Plus if it ever comes into question, you would have done all you could to control the problem without shooting anything.
I live in the north east bay area, next to undeveloped open space, and like you we have coyotes, raccoons, pocket gophers, rats, hawks and huge horned owls. No voles though. We also keep chickens. The best defence I have found is "de fence" that goes around the chicken yard. I put monofilament mesh netting over the whole top of the yard, 4", 50x50 feet, strung from fence to fence and up above rope tied to 8' rebar tripods in the middle of the chicken yard. That keeps the coyotes, hawks and owls out. For the raccoons, I lock the chickens up at night in a sturdy coop (Eglu from Omlet.us ; they even have a light-sensing door that will close at night in case you come home late - _very_ CA techie). I bring in the chicken food bin every night so that the rats don't get any to feed their numbers. For the pocket gophers, my wife likes the "gopher gasser" smoke bombs as she is more into demolition and pyrotechnics, and I like the traps: the Macabee size seems to work well for those little gophers we have here in CA. Remenber to tie them to something ouyside the hole. And every gopher snake the neighbors screech at gets relocated to my backyard. (Maybe it is the same snake, over and over? It _is_ getting bigger each time.)
Regarding the guns, I can't advise for the 'yotes, but have you considered an inexpensive multi-pump for the rodents? They are quite accurate at your 10-20 yards, and it may even pay for itself by the time you factor in the cheaper .177/.22 ammo. My Daisy multi-pump is my go-to for rats, as I can match power to the backstop, and a bigger multipump like the Dragonfly or a Crosman 397/2 would also handle squirrels, if they ever become a problem. A CO2 gun would also work as it doesn't get that cold in the South Bay. If I were to $pend on a ratting setup, I'd get a cheaper gun and good IR nightvision scope, like an ATN or such. Juggling flashlights, pumping and fumbling pellets all at the same time gets old. I have one of those $100 IR cameras with light that attaches to a regular scope, and I'm glad I don't have a real rat problem because that setup bites runny rodent droppings.
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Also use caution and be as incognito with it as possible. While you were given verbal permission, it is cali and as you said they are very unfriendly towards guns. Just because you were told something, doesnt mean they wont use the letter of the law against you. It certainly sounds like you have been doing your research and thinking it out which is a very good thing.
Others gave sound advice about 2 guns, one for each purpose. A helpful thread here is one about 2 guns or two barrels and the advantages of each. I'm still trying to find it. But while its nice to swap barrels its better to have one dialed up for what you want. In your case its to different things so having a dedicated setup for each would be helpful. However it is a little more expensive especially with optics.
Others gave sound advice about 2 guns, one for each purpose. A helpful thread here is one about 2 guns or two barrels and the advantages of each. I'm still trying to find it. But while its nice to swap barrels its better to have one dialed up for what you want. In your case its to different things so having a dedicated setup for each would be helpful. However it is a little more expensive especially with optics.
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I think one rifle for both jobs would be a PITA. I second the two weapon option. A crossbow would be very ethical for the coyote problem and ricochets would not be an issue. Another option would be a Marauder in .25. Easy to fill and accurate. Use a varmint caller to get them close.
The Notos or a springer in .177 would take care of the rodent issue.
The Notos or a springer in .177 would take care of the rodent issue.
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@Lost in the Redwoods I see that your profile says you’re a new member. Welcome. It’s probably not a good idea to ask about “extra-legal” methods of taking nuisance animals with an airgun on a public forum with a rule against discussing illegal activities. I’ve seen similar threads on here regarding coyotes in your state. I’ve read the regs and I urge you to cover yourself and use the safest legal methods to best protect yourself and your property. As someone alluded to in another post, verbal consent is precarious especially if you did not record the Fish and Game Warden saying so. I hope that your children remain safe and that you use the best tool for the job and remedy your issue.
Read this thread and see how it turned out. https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/coyote-hunting-question.1289852/page-1
Read this thread and see how it turned out. https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/coyote-hunting-question.1289852/page-1
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Agree with two rifles, use a 22cal powder burner with suppressed ammo for coyote and any break barrel will dispatch rats , the vowls in michigan are too fast and have to trap them, you don't have to break the bank account, guessing 600-800 $ will easily supply the tools. Best rodent trap is a shoe box with enter and exit holes and two or more mouse traps set inside, no bait necessary.
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I would suggest trapping and gangland style dispatch . less weapon needed . there are rodent poison products you can use plus you can recycle the dead rodent as yote bate and die . IN your situation a moderator will be necessary or a shrouded quiet item .
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To add to the virtues of the K1 I would add the baffle system is adequate to tame the bark of the report at low to mid power levels, at high power a moderator is needed.
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I don’t like the poisons in case raptors or my dogs get them. My neighbor has put poison out and they’ve died in my yard. The dogs were fine, but it’s just peace of mind for me.
I have noticed that when I leave kills out for animals the squirrels and mice are eaten quickly, the rats usually end up fire ant food.
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Yes, the Veteran is regulated, although for your use I don't think it matters. I believe your simplest approach would be a rifle of sufficient power for the coyotes, and just accept some overkill on the small stuff. I've never killed animals as large as a coyote with an air rifle, but obviously it can be done ethically with precision shot placement. I think you should be prepared to see some wounded animals escape your property. If you're comfortable having that conversation in advance with your neighbors, then maybe your plan us acceptable. I value clean kills regardless of the target. But I also appreciate your situation, and I would not be overly concerned about it, assuming I could avoid a major confrontation with the neighbors.
I like the Veteran a lot. But in a hunting situation, assuming a makeshift rest, or an offhand shot, a full size rifle is easier for me to shoot with acceptable accuracy. I would look at a high power .30 caliber.
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This ^^ .
I'm relatively new to air guns as well. Like you I wanted one gun for various uses. Got an FX Maverick which is certainly capable of suiting various uses. BUT, as mentioned above, the gun can only suit one use at a time. Switching between calibers and powers takes some fiddling, tuning, and zeroing.
There is no one gun to rule them all. Purpose built guns make the most sense when you have multiple use scenarios.
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I am another two gun advocate with essentially the same suggestion as Florida_man. Two of the guns we are suggesting will be less than $1000. You could, however, look hard at the Avenge X that you like the looks of best. I think the bullpup would be at least close to your length criteria. It has a transfer port restriction switch to switch it to lower power. The review I saw showed limited effect. You could use a 25 on rats but it is overkill. But less so with a restriction. The Avengers are regulated rifles and a 25 should be tunable to around 60 fpe in 25 caliber.
I am a SnowPeak fan. More specifically I have 3 SPA P35s. My 177 came tuned to about 19 fpe and would be my choice for rats. It could be detuned some but gets about 100 shots per fill. I would not use it on coyotes, however. I would use my P35 in 25 caliber for that. Mine is detuned to 32 fpe right now but I did that before getting the 22 and 177. I will probably retune it for ~50 fpe. As florida_man suggested, the Stoeger bullshark has a 40mm longer barrel and should give a few more fps. It is also available in the U. S.. I ordered my P35s from Krale. If you do that, it is better to order them separately, you will avoid a customs fee that kicks in at $800. But if you get the Stoeger no issue. Two P35s or Stoeger bullsharks will be easily less than $1000.
I would use simple domed pellets in both P35s (or bullsharks). Mine like H&N baracuda match but my retuned 25 may get one of the 33.95 grain JSBs instead. It will depend on what is most accurate. Highest fpe and penetration will be with the heavier pellet but accuracy is the key criteria. The 25 caliber baracuda is 31 grains so not a huge difference. If you hit a coyote in the brain with a 31 or 34 grain pellet that left the muzzle around 800 fps it is going to die immediately. That gun will shoot through 3/4 plywood. It may exit the coyote skull. If you shoot it in the heart, it will die but will probably run quite a bit first. If you hit the shoulder I am not sure, it will probably go through and kill the dog but I would try for brain shots with a 25. I think at least a 30 is a better choice for body shots and I don't know of a 30 or 35 that is short and available close to $500 (to fit our two gun suggestion). But for the ranges you suggest the brain should be a doable target. P35s tend to be pretty accurate. My 177 and 22 caliber P35s best 30 yard challenge target (1/8 inch 10 ring) are 194 and 200 respectively. I'm still working on the 25 but it's taken 18 squirrels for me. It has practical accuracy and the head of a coyote is probably about the same size target as a squirrels vitals.
I would use lead pellets if you can and if you do you will not have to worry significantly about them zinging off on you. If they hit a hard surface they may redirect but will have greatly reduced velocity and ballistic coefficient. So they will not go far.
I am a SnowPeak fan. More specifically I have 3 SPA P35s. My 177 came tuned to about 19 fpe and would be my choice for rats. It could be detuned some but gets about 100 shots per fill. I would not use it on coyotes, however. I would use my P35 in 25 caliber for that. Mine is detuned to 32 fpe right now but I did that before getting the 22 and 177. I will probably retune it for ~50 fpe. As florida_man suggested, the Stoeger bullshark has a 40mm longer barrel and should give a few more fps. It is also available in the U. S.. I ordered my P35s from Krale. If you do that, it is better to order them separately, you will avoid a customs fee that kicks in at $800. But if you get the Stoeger no issue. Two P35s or Stoeger bullsharks will be easily less than $1000.
I would use simple domed pellets in both P35s (or bullsharks). Mine like H&N baracuda match but my retuned 25 may get one of the 33.95 grain JSBs instead. It will depend on what is most accurate. Highest fpe and penetration will be with the heavier pellet but accuracy is the key criteria. The 25 caliber baracuda is 31 grains so not a huge difference. If you hit a coyote in the brain with a 31 or 34 grain pellet that left the muzzle around 800 fps it is going to die immediately. That gun will shoot through 3/4 plywood. It may exit the coyote skull. If you shoot it in the heart, it will die but will probably run quite a bit first. If you hit the shoulder I am not sure, it will probably go through and kill the dog but I would try for brain shots with a 25. I think at least a 30 is a better choice for body shots and I don't know of a 30 or 35 that is short and available close to $500 (to fit our two gun suggestion). But for the ranges you suggest the brain should be a doable target. P35s tend to be pretty accurate. My 177 and 22 caliber P35s best 30 yard challenge target (1/8 inch 10 ring) are 194 and 200 respectively. I'm still working on the 25 but it's taken 18 squirrels for me. It has practical accuracy and the head of a coyote is probably about the same size target as a squirrels vitals.
I would use lead pellets if you can and if you do you will not have to worry significantly about them zinging off on you. If they hit a hard surface they may redirect but will have greatly reduced velocity and ballistic coefficient. So they will not go far.
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I have a bobcat .30 that will do just fine out to 100yds for coyote vitals shot. I will sell it cheap and then you have plenty budget left for a $300 compressor and lower power .22.
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Truth be told I would never ask a question like this; unless I personally studied the options.
Too many opinions.
Mine: the only way I see one rifle working for both animals =the large powerful coyote killer must be able to shoot "shot-shells!
The Bulldog is inexpensive for your needs.
You want to start another hobby, like air gunning?
Good luck on your quest.
Too many opinions.
Mine: the only way I see one rifle working for both animals =the large powerful coyote killer must be able to shoot "shot-shells!
The Bulldog is inexpensive for your needs.
You want to start another hobby, like air gunning?
Good luck on your quest.
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Right here is what I'd be looking at for a dedicated coyote gun. Looks great and lots of accessories ...and a trusted seller here on AGN.
www.airgunnation.com
PCP Rifle - Hunters Special- lowered price!
Hunters special- highly modified Hatsan Hercules Bully in 30 cal. Comes with a spare 10 round mag(total now of 4 mags), spare new valve, hammer weight, hammer springs, and enough o rings to reseal this 25 timrs(oringsandmore). Also comes with a matching FDE 6-24 x 50 Monstrum scope that has a...
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You know you dont need to type anything in a thread to follow it right? Go to the top of the page and on the right between the jump to latest and reply is the follow button.
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They are regulated and have a wide power band. There are also youtube vids on reg adjusting
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