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Serious question

Hello all...

I am confused... (bet your not surprised one bit)
Now stop laughing and read on please....

I would like to know what a normal 50 yard, 5 shot grouping is experienced by an average Joe Blow...
I would like to know if I am doing average or above average in my marksmanship. 

Also if known.... I would like to know what is expected of the average person at 65 yards..... 

I have 35 yard conquered and can hit 1/2 groups into a 1/2 target with no problems ...

It seems I am the only person in NY that shoots air rifles... so I have nobody else to turn too

;-(
 
lol don't feel bad my friend im just down in pa and my groups at 50 yards vary some times I can get a half in group other times I get ver an inch group theres so much that can make the shots vary.. you can always do single shot targets out that far or like me I put up wind chime bars out at varying distances and there only a centimeter wide so if you can hit them on a consistent basis your good

if you really want a look at how your doing you can always use a scope cam and post the shots and I do it in slow motion jus so I can see my pellets as they travel and then I try to adjust how im shooting
 
 It also depends on the rifle. Assuming the rifle is a high quality PCP (BSA, FX, Daystate, RAW, Kalibran, etc.) I would think that on average, 5 shot groups would be around .6 to .7 with a few sub MOA and a few up towards and inch. Just looking back at my notes, I would say that out of every 10, 5 shot groups at 50 yards, I get two, maybe three sub MOA with my FX Boss. I chock this up more to the rifle (deadly accurate) than my ability! Billydjann, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the group size and keep the emphasis on technique. I know that when I get too concerned about scores, my attention goes off the technique and the scores suffer!! Keep having fun.
 
I am shooting a BSA R10...
I get roughly 2 shots (most times even more) out of 5 in 1/2 inch target with others just outside the thin line of the 1/2 target... 
Yesterday was great... I was shooting 4 into the 1/2 inch target and I would screw up that 5th.... It happened to me often yesterday... gets me so damn mad !!!!!!!!!!! I never go over the one inch... I would say more like 3/4 groups would be my normal...

I just don't really know what is normal... I see online so many different thoughts to what is average...for 50 yards...
Shooting my bsa to 65 yards groups grow just a little more ... but still hitting the 1/2 target at least 2 of 5 times.... and never over an inch groups ...

I did find one thing out.... my gun shoots better when only filling to 2,500 psi..... Way better...
I was to lazy to fill tank up yesterday and I ran my pressure tank down below 2,800 psi.. (where many say the R10 does best)
So with more testing at 2,500 ... I may do much better....
 
I had the same exact question yesterday. I posted an un-edited clip with two average joes (me and my friend Ashley who is a good shot but never shot a PCP) shooting FX indy at 50 yards. Because I re-pump Indy after 3 shots at hi-power setting, most groups are only 3 shots (I know) - but still, not too many sub 1/2" groups, and that's only "precision" being tested, not the "precision AND accuracy" which you'd need to actually hit a target you are aiming for.

http://airgunnation.dev/topic/poor-shooters-plus-fx-indy-at-50m/
 
Go to the Dollar store tomorrow and buy a piece of their black cardboard looking stuff for $1.35. It has white core that makes pellet holes light up like stars in the night sky. Shoot a pellet anywhere in it. Use that hole for your next 5 POAs. Your 10 spot will be the size of whatever caliber you are shooting. In my opinion the smaller the 10 spot is the more care you have to take before launching. See if that tightens your groups up. It works for me. Your results may vary. 
Another benefit of using the black cardboard is nice clean holes. It is pretty easy to see if your pellets are wobbly and starting to keyhole. Just my 2 pennies worth.
I'm in the same boat as far as no one to shoot with. Airgunners seem to be few and far between for such a large industry. At least in my locale.
 
It all depends on you....Most rifles can do it once you get past the right pellet for it, a low ES, and the right FPS. ppl who shot real nice .5 inch groups do not aim at the same spot all the time . I know that I don't. You have to take into account the wind first and foremost. The wind can change from shot to shot , so each shot that you take, take the time to notice what the wind is doing and make adjustments, when you get good at this then you will find yourself shooting smaller and smaller groups.
 
I got an abnormally calm day here in Wyoming and decided to see if my zero was correct. Here's an 8 shot group I shot at 50 yards this evening before I did some pellet testing. .25 Marauder with Benjamin domed 27.8gr unsorted. I'm still trying to find my pellet. Used my Caldwell Steady Rest on my shooting bench.

Here is the measurement of all 8.


And the best 5.


Maybe tomorrow if the wind is down I can talk the wife into taking some shots. I'm trying to talk her into rifles. Right now all she wants to shoot is her 380 pb pistol.
 
"I would like to know what a normal 50 yard, 5 shot grouping is experienced by an average Joe Blow…"

The answer depends on what gun, the conditions where you are shooting and your lever of Marksmanship....

People need to be realistic and understand the intended use of their guns, don't expect consistent sub .250" groups at 50 yards with a 100-$200 gun if that is what you are shooting...Not that these guns can not shoot this accurate, but they just will not do it consistently...By the same token, no reason why not to expect very good accuracy from a gun that is designed for Field Target shooting and even from some of those excellent sporters that are out there...Those guns can shoot very accurately (depending on caliber) up to 75 and even 100 yards...

The conditions are extremely important...Shooting outside or indoors? What kind of gun is it: PCP, Springer (Break in or side/under lever), or?, what brand of gun is it and what is the gun designed for (Plinking, Benchrest, Fiel Target, or?), what caliber and velocity are you shooting?, are you an experienced consistent shooter ? 

!0 M guns (6 ft./lb.) shoot 8.4 gr, pellets at 570 ft./sec...While these guns can be extremely expensive and accurate at 10 yards (.004" ctc Feinwerkbau, Anschutz, Walther, Steyr, etc.) these guns will not shoot at longer distances...At 50 yards they become big losers.
Mostly any gun shooting above 12 ft./lb. or around 800 ft./sec. with a 8.4 gr. pellet has the potential for accuracy at 50 yards, they will shoot .500" + or - groups at this distance, but not all of them will do it consistently...

This game is no different that racing or any other sport where you need to invest money to be competitive, but keep in mind that the marginal gains in accuracy after certain level become VERY EXPENSIVE and time consuming....

For accuracy you need a gun that provides consistent velocities, a gun that has a good trigger, good optics, and most importantly, that has a GOOD BARREL...If you are going to spend money, then put it in the barrel and optics...A good barrel will shoot pretty well at different velocities within a reasonable spread, but a bad barrel will not shoot good at consistent velocities...Then, as mentioned, you want the best optics you can afford...No parallax, no jumping of the reticle shot after shot, etc.

Don't expect to break the national record for accuracy with a $60.00 Leapers and a $80 Break barrel gun, for competing at that top level you need a $1K plus or minus scope and you will need a PCP in the $1.5 K to 4-5 K range...

So...Grounding this reply I will suggest that you shoot 10 groups of 5 consecutive shoots at 50 yards (clean your barrel before the test) , do it when the conditions (wind) are appropriate in order to eliminate wind deviation...Shoot from a very solid bench and with Benchrest type front rest and rear:...Test JSB's, H&H and Crossman Premier and RWS pellets, these are pretty much up there for accuracy...

If you need further assistance, please provide us brand, caliber and model of gun you are using, scope, pellets, velocity and type of bench and rests that you are using...This will pretty much give us an idea of what kind of accuracy to expect...

Regards,

AZUARO
 
I am using a BSA R10 Black wrapped .22 USA version -- with a Leapers Utg 30mm Accushot 4-16x44
I know, I know..... I need a better scope..... but this has served me well for now...
Using JSB Diabolo Exact Jumbo Heavy .22 Cal, 18.13 gr. ... so far best pellet for this gun...
This gun can shoot very well at 36 yards..... one hole groups into a 1/2 inch target all day long.. but 50 yards seems to be a challenge for sure... I have not sorted pellets yet..... Don't get me wrong I can group at times in a 3/4 target... sometimes a 1/2 inch target...
I go by target size instead of group size... I want all pellets inside target outer ring..... gun can do it.... but not consistently all the time..

I can get some pretty good groupings at times.. barring wind conditions...

I just wondered what to expect from this gun....and what is normal everyday results of other people... (realistic and not just best groups)
Seems like gun shoots better with lower pressure say about 2500 psi...
Also I took Moderator off I installed... seemed to change point of impact and seems more accurate without.....
Just have picky neighbors.... and I want quite .... 
 
Do you have access to a Chrony or similar for measuring your velocity?...Shoot 5-10 pellets and please provide us the stats.

I Think that I may be able to give you some precise guidelines as to what to try based on similar past experiences, but I need this number very precise, not a guess...

Trying to stay inside the outer ring of a target is fine, keep in mind that the grouping will be equivalent to measuring it EDGE to EDGE and not CENTER to CENTER (ctc) so deduct .220" from the outer ring diameter in order to determine the max group size you are trying to accomplish by staying inside the outer ring....
Example: A 3/4" outer ring will be a maximum .530" ctc target assuming that the shots are all inside this ring...You should interpret this as: "A ctc group of 530" or BETTER" because the group size may be indeed smaller than the ring which is the max.

That is a very good gun that should shoot at least .500 and no more than .750" at 50 yards...The scope you have is only good as a paper weight, don't get me wrong but it is like having a Ferrari and using Wal Mart tires and low octane fuel for going to the F1 race track...Get some better optics: Leupold, Sightron, Nightforce, March or even a Nikon (these are cheap), etc...If you have the cash, then get a Swarovsi or a Zeiss, these are very clear and are the best of the best...
Leapers are OK for plinking where you don't really care for Benchrest accuracy shots...

Note: Mostly all scopes can be re-parallaxed to 50 or less yards, I recently re-parallaxed a German Zeiss 3-9 x 36 for using it in a Daystate Regal XL..It works like a charm at any distance and even with the Max 9X I can shoot .500" and less groups with this gun..

Regards,

AZ
 
I forgot to suggest that in the meantime WEIGH your pellets, at 50 yards a slight variation in weight impacts the vertical quite a bit, so weigh some 15 -20 pellets and shoot 3-4 five shot groups at the same .750" target...Don't pay attention to head size, etc. at this point in time.

Note: Use a reliable .01 -.02 grain accuracy scale, don't procrastinate!...Otherwise you will be wasting your time.

Also I would like you to try 15.89 gr. JSB's 5.52 in size (also weigh a few for shooting groups)...This smaller/lighter pellet seems to stabilize better at 20 ft./lb. at longer distances. 

Regards,

AZUARO 
 
AZuaro
I took moderator off..... now see the results.... 6 shot 50 yards...
Shooter error on 5th shot so took a 6th....Happens all the dang time to me..
Red is 1/2 inch... so not sure what center group measures... misplace my calipers 
Gun does not like the moderator I guess....I really dont need it...

I have a nice scale and a nice chrony ....and will do testing this weekend....
Shooter still needs a lot of practice... and I mean a lot
 
The vertical seems to be right on the money so I guess that could've been the problem...

Check the alignment of the internals in the moderator...When there are no obstructions, more times than not these moderators help with accuracy, or at least won't hurt it and it is always nice to shoot a quiet gun.

Try those JSB's 15.89 gr. pellets, they have provided excellent groups in every gun I have tried them shooting at 20 ft./lb. here in the USA.

Keep us posted of any improvement you achieve...

Best regards,

AZ