Seriously taking squirrels with 12ft lb?!

Decades of experience certainly needs to be respected. I also think you qualify as a much better than average shooter, Motorhead.

I also have found evidence of the lack of effectiveness of Ass shots. I haven't taken any but I cleaned a couple kills and found 177 pellets under the skin on the ass. One of the squirrels was missing it's tail. Don't know if that's related. Both squirrels were all healed up when I killed them. Regardless of power I think even a squirrel deserves better than a Gut or Ass shot.
When out PESTING ground squirrels your a lot less picky on placement & many times really don't have a lot of time or view to make a DRT shot ...
Have been out many instances and using .22 pcps at 28-40 fpe pending rifle had taken my fair share of mid body, gut & ass shots only to have said squirrel run like there ass is on fire only to disappear down a burrow. It seldom will anchor them !!!
 
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I KNOW AS HAS BEEN PREACHED HERE , SHOT PLACEMENT IS EVERYTHING..
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Yup

If you can't get your squirrel killing done out to 40 yards with a 12-ft pound rifle and say a 90% dead right there kill ratio you need to spend more time on your bench learning how to shoot and when to shoot.
 
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The two body shots with my new 177 that cause me to question it for body shots are both kind of special circumstances and thus not any kind of conclusive data. 2 data points is too little for a conclusion anyway. But the first was a normal shoulder shot, went right through the lungs. It moved a few steps and fell off the limb it was on. The legs were flailing as it fell, it clearly was not dead yet. My dog grabbed it immediately so it had no chance to run. She shook it pretty good and it was over. The other one was hit in the throat and the pellet went down the off side front leg smashing the shoulder in the process. It fell pretty quickly but got back up and climbed a few feet (when it saw my dog coming). It fell again, she grabbed it and it was over. The second one should have been hit better but the only shots I had any running with my 25 were 2 straight into the chest shots. Went the length of the squirrel but they ran 10-15 feet before expiring. These first two 177s seem to have life left in them and the first one was hit the same as half a dozen 25 caliber squirrels that dropped at impact. I'm not saying I know 177 is not great for heart/lung shots but my current limited experience isn't consistent with saying it's great for them either. Seems like bigger holes may kill a little quicker on body shots. (3 brain shots were immediate lights out, of course) Current plan is to take a few with the equally new 22 and then switch back to the 177 to gather more data. My 177 is my P35 pushing 10.65 grain H&Ns about 900 fps.
 
Odd as it may sound ? Have found on body shots at least, that a lower power wadcutter or like pellet that STAYS IN the quarry seems to be more fatal or of shock " Ya Got Me" than pass threws no mater the power. Ice pick pass threws unless on bone or striking vitals can have very differing results from a run off as if missed, too sitting still and just looking as if still perked up, yet sit there until falling over dead. Witnessed some awful strange reactions over the years.
 
Odd as it may sound ? Have found on body shots at least, that a lower power wadcutter or like pellet that STAYS IN the quarry seems to be more fatal or of shock " Ya Got Me" than pass threws no mater the power. Ice pick pass threws unless on bone or striking vitals can have very differing results from a run off as if missed, too sitting still and just looking as if still perked up, yet sit there until falling over dead. Witnessed some awful strange reactions over the years.
I've noticed the same thing, especially since I started using my 12 ft lb rifle for yard pesting. I assume it has to do with the amount of energy that is actually transferred to the critter. I've been amazed at the number of squirrels that simply die on the spot with a heart/lung shot with the lower power pellet.
 
I came late to this post so I didnt even bother reading any replies and I really dont need to for my response. If you have trouble killing squirrels at 20 yds with 12 fpe its you and your ability not the power level. Across the pond they are not even using 12 fpe they are limited to 12 fpe and less. No one wants to get in trouble so the highest most will have a rifle tuned is 11 fpe with allot being around 10 fpe. The 12 fpe law does not state with your pellet. If they get stopped and checked by the local law enforcement which happens regularly in the UK the power level is checked with the pellet of choice the officer/ constable wants to use. If his pellet of choice produces 12.1 fpe you are in big trouble. So no one with a brain will push the limit. They came up with the 12 fpe law based on how much power is needed to humanely kill small game. 12 fpe is plenty to humanely kill small game but the hunter has to be able to shoot accurately and have the rifle setup to shoot accurately. If you are not humanely killing small game at that power level you need more practice and study the animals anatomy and understand where the shot placement needs to be at different angles.
 
Scott's comment about ass shots made me remember one I did last year . I was pesting not hunting ; squirrel was facing away on top the fence post . I was waiting for him to lift his head when he started flicking his tail , figured he is about to bolt . Put the crosshairs on his little brown ring and fired . DRT Texas heart shot . 20 yards , 10.5 fpe . Got the job done , but it just seemed wrong ....
 
Scott's comment about ass shots made me remember one I did last year . I was pesting not hunting ; squirrel was facing away on top the fence post . I was waiting for him to lift his head when he started flicking his tail , figured he is about to bolt . Put the crosshairs on his little brown ring and fired . DRT Texas heart shot . 20 yards , 10.5 fpe . Got the job done , but it just seemed wrong ....
Lol .... coreholing I think thats called
 
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My squirrel gun is a benjamin discovery in .177. It has some power to it but I dont consider it high powered at all. I've shot squirrels in all different areas of their body and have always ended up with squirrel and dumplings for lunch. I do think placement is key but it's not critical to ha e a brain shot. Anytime I hit the torso I got a quick kill. The quarry I have the hardest time killing is eurasian doves. If I dont get a head shot( any caliber) they dont seem to die.
 
Thanks all! So another question, at 45 yards my 12ft lb gun has like 5-6inches of drop, that’s why I thought it was underpowered. Is that normal?
Yes depending on the zero of the rifle. 12 fpe rifles when used for hunting are not for long range. With that said if your setup is accurate enough to hit the brain every time and has enough energy at 60 yds to get the penetration needed to get to the brain it will cleanly kill the animal. I have killed many ground squirrels here in MT using my .177 setup at 10 fpe at the muzzle out to 45 yds. The ground squirrels here can get pretty big and are very tough but they all die with that setup but I only go for the brain. I would say 60 - 70% of those shots have complete pass thru as well so 10 fpe on a fairly sturdy animal penetrates plenty at 45 yds for brain shots.
 
Thanks all! So another question, at 45 yards my 12ft lb gun has like 5-6inches of drop, that’s why I thought it was underpowered. Is that normal?

Zero your gun around 30yds to make your life easier. Here's a rough idea of holdover using my 11.5fpe 430L as an example.

Screenshot_20221215-163156_Strelok Pro.jpg
 
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Thanks all! So another question, at 45 yards my 12ft lb gun has like 5-6inches of drop, that’s why I thought it was underpowered. Is that normal?

Also don't worry about "drop" so much. My 17fpe 97K has more total drop than my 430L at all usable ranges but is still putting out nearly 50% more muzzle energy.

HW97K .22 DROP

Screenshot_20221215-165157_Strelok Pro.jpg



DIANA 430L .177 DROP

Screenshot_20221215-165044_Strelok Pro.jpg
 
I do not think 5 fpe is enough. I shot one squirrel with about that energy and it took it several days to die. It was hit solidly on the shoulder and broke it but did not penetrate into the chest. It could not climb a tree but could run well. I couldn't get another shot on it and found it several days later dead in the yard. If I had hit it in the head I would probably have had a different result. But my shot was well placed and the animal took days to die. To me, risking that just to use a 5 fpe gun is not OK. I have not shot that gun at a squirrel since.

I realize that is not the main dialogue point here, it is 11-12 fpe guns. The closest I have had to this was my Prod before I tuned it up to 17-18 fpe. Stock it was 13-14 fpe and after shooting 4 squirrels with it at that power level I thought it was a bit weak. I tested penetration on a dead one and the 14.? grain pellets I was using would not shoot through at 25 yards. They would shoot through the shoulder and get to the vitals but I decided I wanted more power. I got it and the 11 after that were DRT. I will freely admit there is a good chance my early issues were likely at least contributed to by worse shot placement than my final 11. Head shots were never an issue. Prod is a 22, of course, and penetration would be better with a 177 as would trajectory. That's why I think a 177 is a better choice if you have to stay at 12 fpe or less.

Trajectory is a good bit of the reason I like my airguns to have a bit higher fpe. It is easier to properly place the pellet with more velocity and thus energy. When they will do it, I tune my guns to shoot 800-900 fps with pellets they like. That is why I have a 19 fpe 177, a 32 fpe 22, and a 32 fpe 25. The 25 likes H&N FTTs which are lighter than the Baracuda Match the 22 likes so they have almost exactly the same fpe. I'm sure that 32 fpe isn't necessary but it works great in the 25 and I think it will in the 22 too. I'm waiting for some squirrels to volunteer to test this theory.

All my guns are sighted to give me a 1/4 inch mid trajectory rise. My logic is I can ignore the 1/4 inch on squirrels. My ~750 fps Prod thus has a significantly closer zero point than my 900 fps P35-177. But both are close enough at 25 yards, my most typical shot distance, I do not have to hold over or under. The guns which will do over 800 fps are zero'd close to 40 yards. So they are within 1/4 inch from about 20 yards to over 40 yards. The occasional under 20 yard shot is more of an issue for me than over 40. I'm practicing on sparrows to get better at those close shots.
 
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Thanks all! So another question, at 45 yards my 12ft lb gun has like 5-6inches of drop, that’s why I thought it was underpowered. Is that normal?
As long as the pellet has sufficient energy to kill the intended quarry at reasonable ranges? Shot placement…, consistent, shot placement.
 
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This has been a very interesting discussion, especially for someone like me who is hunting squirrels for the first time this year. Up to now, I've only hunted collared doves and rabbits, which are easily dispatched compared to squirrels.
Aside from tiny kill zones, squirrels are tricky because they move a ton compared to pretty much any other small game. They do tend to move in patterns though when they're foraging for food. Few steps, stop..., few steps, stop/look around, few steps, stop and pick up food. Once they pickup food they usually retreat somewhere they feel safe. At my house they always seem to go to this one fallen tree. I have picked off more squirrels on that fallen tree than I can count. If you aren't completely sure of your surroundings just follow him a bit with your scope. Even if he runs off with food, he will likely be back shortly. I always pop them during one of their "stop and look around" poses or when they stop to crack open a nut they found.
 
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I do not think 5 fpe is enough. I shot one squirrel with about that energy and it took it several days to die. It was hit solidly on the shoulder and broke it but did not penetrate into the chest
Its not enough if the shot you are taking is one of the toughest areas covering the vitals. The shoulder has the hide, shoulder muscles and bones covering the lungs depending on angle. I wouldnt take a shot thru the shoulder muscle and bone with 5 fpe. If you would have taken that same shot but only had the rib cage to penetrate chances are the outcome would have been a dead squirrel. My experience has been making hits out to 45 yds with impact energies being 7 fpe. That setup has performed flawless on brain hits. I cant say for body shots cause I dont take them but I would feel good at 7 fpe with a broadside hit thru the ribcage but I may hesitate taking an angle forward shot thru the shoulder at that power level. Gotta know the limits when using lower power and know why a shoulder shot is probably a low percentage shot based on the power level.
 
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