SHTF : Springer or PCP With Hand Pump? Which would you choose?
- Thread starter SonOfAGun
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I'll answer your question with Springer however I'm a fan of the Multi-pumps. To be fair I've never owned either a PCP or springer. I would buy a springer before a PCP, because I like to keep it simple 
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You can fill a PCP with just a $50 hand pump, but I think that the vast majority of the people that go the PCP route ultimately end up with a hand pump, a compressor, multiple filters and one or more tanks, so that's a very fair point.I'll answer your question with Springer however I'm a fan of the Multi-pumps. To be fair I've never owned either a PCP or springer. I would buy a springer before a PCP, because I like to keep it simple
And even when you've already got all the gear, it's still easier to just grab a springer and go shoot stuff.
For plinking and casual target practice I'd say that springers are king of the hill and a damn good choice if you like to keep things simple.
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Again PCP all the way, ........turned down to close to springers powers will give 100s of shots on a charge so no need to carry no pump,
turn it up you can get serious power to take big game or even snipe for defense, that is a level of versatility springers will never achieve.
More precise, more powerful, more light, multi shots capability, more quiet.
As for fixing, way easier to change an O-ring or 2 then a chamber spring, also a bunch of O-rings, poppets and silicone grease is a way smaller bag then a chamber spring
A springer is only better in fantasy land when you prancing around in an enchanted forest
....in real life there's no comparison PCPs kick springers butt anyday.
turn it up you can get serious power to take big game or even snipe for defense, that is a level of versatility springers will never achieve.
More precise, more powerful, more light, multi shots capability, more quiet.
As for fixing, way easier to change an O-ring or 2 then a chamber spring, also a bunch of O-rings, poppets and silicone grease is a way smaller bag then a chamber spring
A springer is only better in fantasy land when you prancing around in an enchanted forest
....in real life there's no comparison PCPs kick springers butt anyday.Upvote 0
Yeah, but springers are more fun.Again PCP all the way, ........turned down to close to springers powers will give 100s of shots on a charge so no need to carry no pump,
turn it up you can get serious power to take big game or even snipe for defense, that is a level of versatility springers will never achieve.
More precise, more powerful, more light, multi shots capability, more quiet.
As for fixing, way easier to change an O-ring or 2 then a chamber spring, also a bunch of O-rings, poppets and silicone grease is a way smaller bag then a chamber spring
A springer is only better in fantasy land when you prancing around in an enchanted forest
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I guess the main thing here is that I don't really think it matters much. You have your reasons for preferring PCPs and he has his for wanting MPPs or springers, but in the event of SHTF, airguns will likely play no more than a minor role and any good air rifle will likely fill that role adequately.
Personally, I also feel that PCPs are superior in all ways when it comes to hunting, but if someone doesn't want to bother with a pump, compressor or tank, then that's a good reason for opting for a springer instead. I've got all those things and multiple PCPs and often they're still more of a PITA than I want to deal with when I just want to spend half an hour plinking.
In all likelihood, no spare parts will be stored for either one and it still won't be a problem. Both designs will typically fire several thousand shots and last decades without breaking down.
Also, the fun factor of something is worth considering. If someone gets more enjoyment from a certain type of airgun then it's more likely they will shoot it regularly, be proficient with it and that it will be functional when needed.
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I have a reasonable amount of everything I need for SHTF.
Cash, gold, silver and lead on hand.
Guns, guns and more guns. (and bows & slingshots)
Food for 4 for a year, plus rations for emergencies and quick exits.
I'll probably never have enough water, but I try.
Cash, gold, silver and lead on hand.
Guns, guns and more guns. (and bows & slingshots)
Food for 4 for a year, plus rations for emergencies and quick exits.
I'll probably never have enough water, but I try.
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Is not a well tuned springer less noisier than a similar powered PCP? For me, my tuned FWB 124 is quieter than my Crossman 140 and Sheridan Blue Streak when pumped up to full power. Is not the sound report of PCP or pumper sharper and more similar but not as loud as a gunshot while a springer is less so? Not sure how a Marauder sits on noise as I heard it is quiet. In my packed neighborhood, noise and how it is percieved is important when shooting a squirrel raiding the bird feeder. Also, do not know if I could tell the difference in accuracy at short range say 25 yards or less between a PCP and a quality tuned springer. A PCP would be easier to master as many have said so although I do not own one yet.Again PCP all the way, ........turned down to close to springers powers will give 100s of shots on a charge so no need to carry no pump,
turn it up you can get serious power to take big game or even snipe for defense, that is a level of versatility springers will never achieve.
More precise, more powerful, more light, multi shots capability, more quiet.
As for fixing, way easier to change an O-ring or 2 then a chamber spring, also a bunch of O-rings, poppets and silicone grease is a way smaller bag then a chamber spring
A springer is only better in fantasy land when you prancing around in an enchanted forest
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It depends on the PCP. With the right charge of air in it my Air Arms S410 was mousefart quiet right from the factory. That particular gun has a very effective factory shroud built into it. Without any noise muffling however then yes they will often be as noisy as a firearm of a similar power level and barrel length. Most do come with some sort of shroud or silencer attached though.
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Not even close, a PCP with a moderator tuned down even at some extra FPE then a springer is virtually silent,....yeah you can make good shots with a top end springer and a top end shooter but still a PCP will be way more precise over several shots, again not even close.
I have/had 50-60 FPE PCPs that where way more quiet then my 15 FPE springers.
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Bottom line is this, example :
I had a .22 semi-auto that with a short spring ( 2 minutes to change hammersprings ) tuned to 20 FPE would give me 200 shots on a charge, lighter, more precise and significantly more quiet then a 15 FPE springer and with the capability to send rounds downrange as fast as you can pull the trigger.
Same gun after putting the original hammerspring back I killed a decent size wild boar with it, still lighter, more precise and quieter then a springer.
That is something that you cannot ever do with a springer, ever.
I had a .22 semi-auto that with a short spring ( 2 minutes to change hammersprings ) tuned to 20 FPE would give me 200 shots on a charge, lighter, more precise and significantly more quiet then a 15 FPE springer and with the capability to send rounds downrange as fast as you can pull the trigger.
Same gun after putting the original hammerspring back I killed a decent size wild boar with it, still lighter, more precise and quieter then a springer.
That is something that you cannot ever do with a springer, ever.
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Someone said to me today, "I've never heard a mouse fart." We were talking about moderators and running tests to actually measure the performance of our devices. You know the whole "mouse fart" and "virtually silent" thing is like "one hole at 25 yards"... hyperbole. The quietest projectile launcher I have ever heard was a 9mm sig shooting subsonics with a moderator. All you could hear was the slide. Go rack the slide on a semi-auto pistol. There AIN'T NO SUCH THING AS "mouse fart" quiet.
Most spring rifles are quieter without a moderator than most PCP rifles are WITH a moderator ... and that is proven for me by testing not by hearing what I wanted to hear. That's a fact. Lot of times we think a gun (particularly a springer) is louder than it is because the noise of the action is so much closer to our ears than the noise of the muzzle blast. You might THINK, "what's 2 feet?" So I'll tell you. Two noises one at 3 inches from your ear and the other at 2 feet from your ear, the same absolute volume level. The one at 3 inches will sound like it is 18-24 decibels louder than the one at 24 inches. That is the MATH. Keep that in mind when making these comparisons.
That said, silence is fine but below some level it becomes irrelevant. If you are making more noise clumping about in the woods than your rifle makes when you shoot it, well then the performance of your moderator isn't really all that important.
Someone else said there are good reasons for choosing each option and he was right. The quietest AG I own is my D430 tuned by John in PA. It isn't really powerful at 12 fpe but it will compete with the average PCP at 30 yards (well it did on the 30 yard challenge). It will make meat as well as any PCP out there when it comes to SMALL game. But in my case, as I said elsewhere, my AGs would be trading material and I would rely upon more traditional means (trapping) to get my game. I am sure Manny knows a bit about trapping as well. The easiest way to get food in the wild is to trap it BECAUSE it frees you up to do other things you might need to do. The trapper multitasks and gets much more efficient use out of his time.
So, I guess if you aren't going to use your AGs for hunting you don't need them at all unless you are foolish enough to think you are going to use them for self-defense. Now that MIGHT work, one on one in a deep woods or jungle setting, but that AINT gonna work in the desert or in any environment where you are static. So that's strike two against ANY AG for scenarios where rule of law isn't reliable.
When talking about these ideas it is good to remember that YOU might be able to make that PCP run for as much as a few years but eventually it is going to fail just like any other piece of kit and you aren't going to replace it. The WORST possible scenario is you carrying your BB gun and turning a corner to face a group of folks intent upon taking it from you or worse. The second worst is you hunkered down in your hut, house, cave, whatever and something like a Cougar, Bear, Jaguar, or pack of feral dogs decides you look like dinner or worse that bunch of folks you managed to dodge at that corner this afternoon, saw you and has followed you home because you look like dinner .... At that point you're going to wish you had a sharp stick over that paper weight.
Would I keep an AG? absolutely, damn fine tool for certain things... "Here son, take this and go kill a couple of rabbits. Be back an hour before dark and stay on this side of the creek."
The rest of this is just chest thumping.
EDIT: No insult intended.
Most spring rifles are quieter without a moderator than most PCP rifles are WITH a moderator ... and that is proven for me by testing not by hearing what I wanted to hear. That's a fact. Lot of times we think a gun (particularly a springer) is louder than it is because the noise of the action is so much closer to our ears than the noise of the muzzle blast. You might THINK, "what's 2 feet?" So I'll tell you. Two noises one at 3 inches from your ear and the other at 2 feet from your ear, the same absolute volume level. The one at 3 inches will sound like it is 18-24 decibels louder than the one at 24 inches. That is the MATH. Keep that in mind when making these comparisons.
That said, silence is fine but below some level it becomes irrelevant. If you are making more noise clumping about in the woods than your rifle makes when you shoot it, well then the performance of your moderator isn't really all that important.
Someone else said there are good reasons for choosing each option and he was right. The quietest AG I own is my D430 tuned by John in PA. It isn't really powerful at 12 fpe but it will compete with the average PCP at 30 yards (well it did on the 30 yard challenge). It will make meat as well as any PCP out there when it comes to SMALL game. But in my case, as I said elsewhere, my AGs would be trading material and I would rely upon more traditional means (trapping) to get my game. I am sure Manny knows a bit about trapping as well. The easiest way to get food in the wild is to trap it BECAUSE it frees you up to do other things you might need to do. The trapper multitasks and gets much more efficient use out of his time.
So, I guess if you aren't going to use your AGs for hunting you don't need them at all unless you are foolish enough to think you are going to use them for self-defense. Now that MIGHT work, one on one in a deep woods or jungle setting, but that AINT gonna work in the desert or in any environment where you are static. So that's strike two against ANY AG for scenarios where rule of law isn't reliable.
When talking about these ideas it is good to remember that YOU might be able to make that PCP run for as much as a few years but eventually it is going to fail just like any other piece of kit and you aren't going to replace it. The WORST possible scenario is you carrying your BB gun and turning a corner to face a group of folks intent upon taking it from you or worse. The second worst is you hunkered down in your hut, house, cave, whatever and something like a Cougar, Bear, Jaguar, or pack of feral dogs decides you look like dinner or worse that bunch of folks you managed to dodge at that corner this afternoon, saw you and has followed you home because you look like dinner
.... At that point you're going to wish you had a sharp stick over that paper weight.Would I keep an AG? absolutely, damn fine tool for certain things... "Here son, take this and go kill a couple of rabbits. Be back an hour before dark and stay on this side of the creek."
The rest of this is just chest thumping.
EDIT: No insult intended.
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Before I regulated my s410, if for some reason I wanted it to be nearly silent I would charge it to 200 bar. This was well outside of the power curve, but it still shot a pellet at close to 800 fps and about the loudest sound that it would produce was the hammer hitting the valve.
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