SIG ASP20 Chronograph results

[Other_Mark_B]

Received .22 rifle last week. Fifty pellets down range over Friday and Saturday. Another 50 fired this morning. Chronograph work done late this afternoon. 

Four comments before showing chrony results. First, cocking effort is smooth and not too heavy. I'm doing it with one arm in spite of the fact that I'm old and weak. Kudos to SIG.

Second, the trigger IMHO does not live up to the "Matchlite" name. The pad of my trigger finger hurts more than my arm. In my opinion the trigger - although it has a very smooth second stage and breaks consistently and crisply - is a major deficiency because of the great effort required to get it to break. I'm hoping that the pull required will substantially lighten up as the rifle gets broken in. By way of comparison my RWS M54, HW90, LGV and LGU all had triggers that IMHO required a much lighter pull out of the box.

Third, barrel internal diameter is between .215 and .216 thousandths of an inch based upon the budget gage pins that I have. With but one exception, I needed to use a pellet seater to get pellets to fit into the breech. 

Forth, dime sized five shot groups at 25 yards have been the exception rather than the rule so far as I'm still learning how to hold the rifle, fighting the trigger, and using pellets (JSB Jumbo Heavy) that may or may not be the best for this rifle.



My bottom line - with just over 200 pellets down the barrel - is that this can be a really good rifle if effort required to get the trigger to break diminishes through use or a trigger job.

Best wishes.

The other Mark B.

 

[Bruce54]

Supposedly you can adjust trigger, have you looked into that?

 

[MScottLeeman]

I was Really excited to see how this rifle would stack up once out in the world.

From what You've described,as far as .22 springers go,I will Happily stick with my lazer-accurate 23 ft lb Diana 54 T06. Whenever I take it out for a shooting session...I fall in love with it all over again.

Thank You for Your post!

Mike.

 

[Bruce54]

Tom Galord, over at Pyramyd Air, on his blog for tomorrow (Dec 4) is discussing how to adjust the trigger. He seems to like it.

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

Received .22 rifle last week. Fifty pellets down range over Friday and Saturday. Another 50 fired this morning. Chronograph work done late this afternoon. 

Four comments before showing chrony results. First, cocking effort is smooth and not too heavy. I'm doing it with one arm in spite of the fact that I'm old and weak. Kudos to SIG.

Second, the trigger IMHO does not live up to the "Matchlite" name. The pad of my trigger finger hurts more than my arm. In my opinion the trigger - although it has a very smooth second stage and breaks consistently and crisply - is a major deficiency because of the great effort required to get it to break. I'm hoping that the pull required will substantially lighten up as the rifle gets broken in. By way of comparison my RWS M54, HW90, LGV and LGU all had triggers that IMHO required a much lighter pull out of the box.

Third, barrel internal diameter is between .215 and .216 thousandths of an inch based upon the budget gage pins that I have. With but one exception, I needed to use a pellet seater to get pellets to fit into the breech. 

Forth, dime sized five shot groups at 25 yards have been the exception rather than the rule so far as I'm still learning how to hold the rifle, fighting the trigger, and using pellets (JSB Jumbo Heavy) that may or may not be the best for this rifle.



My bottom line - with just over 200 pellets down the barrel - is that this can be a really good rifle if effort required to get the trigger to break diminishes through use or a trigger job.

Best wishes.

The other Mark B.

What elevation are you at ? The one thing I noticed about the Airgun Depot video was the velocities they were getting were on par with the guns ratings. This despite the fact the testing they did was done at approximately 4400 ft above sea level. That tells me one of two things are at play here. Either Sig has underrated the power of the gun or the test gun Airgun Depot got had a higher gas charge to compensate for elevation loss. I use to own a Beeman RX1 (HW90) in .20 cal. At 85 ft above sea level my gun would shoot 11 gr Beeman Silver Jets at 910fps. When I took the gun to my brothers house ( 2315 ft above sea level ) my velocity was down to 890fps. That's a 20fps loss with just 2230 ft difference in elevation. So, you have to figure that at 4400 ft velocity losses would be even greater. Maybe 10fps loss per every 1000ft of elevation??? Just guessing. That is the reason I am curious about your chrony numbers and your elevation.

 

[Other_Mark_B]

What elevation are you at ? T

1408 feet elevation per Google Earth

 

[Other_Mark_B]

Either Sig has underrated the power of the gun or the test gun Airgun Depot got had a higher gas charge to compensate for elevation loss.

My rifle had but 100 or so pellets through it when I did the chronograph testing, so the rifle was not broken in. The primary purpose for the early testing was to have a baseline to work from in the future. Also, the pellet seater I used pushed all but one or two of the pellets deep into the breech. In other words, only one or two (as I recall) of the pellet skirts sat flush. I'm only guessing but one or the other or both may have caused slower velocities.

Another variable might be the chronograph used which was a Magneto Speed V3 with a recent software update. The last variable is that I used the online energy calculator from the AoA web site. I don't really see either as an issue but I suppose I could change chronographs and calculators and run another sample. Perhaps I will after my finger recovers. Better yet, let's hope other ASP20 owners contribute to this post. PA sold out so I assume others are testing their new guns as I write this.

And to all others, yes I adjusted the trigger which performs smoothly, consistently, and breaks with no creep like Tom says. However, the only part of my body that cried uncle while firing over 100 pellets yesterday at the range and later at home for testing was the pad of my finger. I never had that issue with the other spring guns and gas ram gun that I own/ed.

Best wishes.

The other Mark B.

 

[EMrider]

Very helpful information, thanks for sharing.

R

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

I am getting mine (.22cal) delivered on 12/11. I will first conduct chrony testing with the two pellets I purchased with the rifle. The 14.3gr Crossman Premier and 12.35gr Sig Wraith. As I stated I am at 85 ft above sea level. I chose the Premier pellet because it was the most accurate in my Theoben Eliminator. That gun spit them out at 925fps.

Pellet seating is something I tested a lot using my chronograph with all of the airguns. Most of the time velocity was lost deep seating the pellet. When I say " deep seating " I mean using the ball end of the seating tool and pushing the pellet in until it snaps. I actually gained velocity and accuracy on my RX1 but lost velocity on my Beeman Crow Magnum III. Just push the pellet deep enough to clear the breech (and before it swedges any lead from the skirt) and I think you will gain velocity. Especially on the 13.43gr pellet you tested.

 

[Other_Mark_B]

I am getting mine (.22cal) delivered on 12/11. I will first conduct chrony testing with the two pellets I purchased with the rifle. The 14.3gr Crossman Premier and 12.35gr Sig Wraith. As I stated I am at 85 ft above sea level. I chose the Premier pellet because it was the most accurate in my Theoben Eliminator. That gun spit them out at 925fps.

Pellet seating is something I tested a lot using my chronograph with all of the airguns. Most of the time velocity was lost deep seating the pellet. When I say " deep seating " I mean using the ball end of the seating tool and pushing the pellet in until it snaps. I actually gained velocity and accuracy on my RX1 but lost velocity on my Beeman Crow Magnum III. Just push the pellet deep enough to clear the breech (and before it swedges any lead from the skirt) and I think you will gain velocity. Especially on the 13.43gr pellet you tested.

Interesting. I'll give it a try and see if there is an increase.

Best wishes.

The other Mark B.

 

[Other_Mark_B]

I am getting mine (.22cal) delivered on 12/11. I will first conduct chrony testing with the two pellets I purchased with the rifle. The 14.3gr Crossman Premier and 12.35gr Sig Wraith. As I stated I am at 85 ft above sea level. I chose the Premier pellet because it was the most accurate in my Theoben Eliminator. That gun spit them out at 925fps.

Pellet seating is something I tested a lot using my chronograph with all of the airguns. Most of the time velocity was lost deep seating the pellet. When I say " deep seating " I mean using the ball end of the seating tool and pushing the pellet in until it snaps. I actually gained velocity and accuracy on my RX1 but lost velocity on my Beeman Crow Magnum III. Just push the pellet deep enough to clear the breech (and before it swedges any lead from the skirt) and I think you will gain velocity. Especially on the 13.43gr pellet you tested.

Interesting. I'll give it a try and see if there is an increase.

Best wishes.

The other Mark B.

GoldenState

I just retested with Jumbo Express (14.35 gr.) and Jumbo RS pellets (13.43 gr.) after firing 10 shots for kicks and grins. Pellet skirts were seated flush rather than "deep seated" as you suggested.

Todays' Express results were a ten shot average of 820 FPS for 21.43 Ft/lbs. Jumbo RS ten shot results were an average of 848 FPS for 21.45 Ft/lbs. Little change from results shared Monday.

I may break down and purchase a couple tins of Sig Wraith pellets once I see your results. Where did you buy them if you don't mind sharing?

I may also send my gun back for an exchange if your results show 23 Ft/lbs (as did Tom Gaylord's) versus the 21 that my rifle is demonstrating. Two consistent sets of results will provide me with some guidance.

Speaking of guidance, I'm surprised no one else has jumped in with chronograph results. I can't believe I'm the only one (except for Tom) to test their new rifles. 

Finally, note that the trigger break effort required for my gun is starting to lighten up some.

Looking forward to your results.

Best wishes.

The other Mark B.

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

Keep me posted ! The reason velocity is lost on deep seating pellets is simple. When the pellet starts its movement down the barrel the velocity is determined by the amount of pressure behind it. Higher pressure will be achieved with more pellet resistance. Lower resistance ( a deep seated pellet) means the pellet will start its movement with less pressure buildup. Hence, lower velocities. Of course there's a point of diminished return. An excessively tight fitting pellet will have too friction resulting in lower velocity. Pellet sizing is another issue I tested. The best results I obtained was when I used a sizing die that just smoothed the edge of the skirt and no reduction in head diameter. Usually, about 10-15fps was the gain I would see.



Out of curiosity, what airguns have you owned...or own ? Here is my list. I don't have any of these guns now.

Crosman 760 pump in .177 cal...When they first came out in the middle 60's

Beeman C1 Carbine in .177 cal....sort of a M1 carbine lookalike

Beeman R10 Carbine in .20 cal....didn't care for it. Sold to get R1

Beeman R1 in .177 cal...nice gun but a tank. Sold to get Theoben

Theoben Scirocco Classic in .22...started my love of gas-spring airguns. Sold to get a RX1

Beeman RX1 (HW90) in .20 cal....loved this gun the best of anything I owned. Wish I kept it. Had to have more power ! Sold it for the Crow

Beeman Crow Magnum III (Theoben Eliminator ) in .22 cal..a real sledgehammer but harsh to shoot. Sold it. Needed $$

 

[Other_Mark_B]

Springuns:

Walther LGU

Walther LGV

ASP20

RWS M54 (sold)

HW 90 (sold)


Note that all pellets seem tight in my ASP20. As written earlier my budget price gage pins showed an internal barrel ID between .215 and .216 thousandths of an inch. this makes me think deep seating or not is not an issue with my gun.

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

I am getting mine (.22cal) delivered on 12/11. I will first conduct chrony testing with the two pellets I purchased with the rifle. The 14.3gr Crossman Premier and 12.35gr Sig Wraith. As I stated I am at 85 ft above sea level. I chose the Premier pellet because it was the most accurate in my Theoben Eliminator. That gun spit them out at 925fps.

Pellet seating is something I tested a lot using my chronograph with all of the airguns. Most of the time velocity was lost deep seating the pellet. When I say " deep seating " I mean using the ball end of the seating tool and pushing the pellet in until it snaps. I actually gained velocity and accuracy on my RX1 but lost velocity on my Beeman Crow Magnum III. Just push the pellet deep enough to clear the breech (and before it swedges any lead from the skirt) and I think you will gain velocity. Especially on the 13.43gr pellet you tested.

Interesting. I'll give it a try and see if there is an increase.

Best wishes.

The other Mark B.

GoldenState

I just retested with Jumbo Express (14.35 gr.) and Jumbo RS pellets (13.43 gr.) after firing 10 shots for kicks and grins. Pellet skirts were seated flush rather than "deep seated" as you suggested.

Todays' Express results were a ten shot average of 820 FPS for 21.43 Ft/lbs. Jumbo RS ten shot results were an average of 848 FPS for 21.45 Ft/lbs. Little change from results shared Monday.

I may break down and purchase a couple tins of Sig Wraith pellets once I see your results. Where did you buy them if you don't mind sharing?

I may also send my gun back for an exchange if your results show 23 Ft/lbs (as did Tom Gaylord's) versus the 21 that my rifle is demonstrating. Two consistent sets of results will provide me with some guidance.

Speaking of guidance, I'm surprised no one else has jumped in with chronograph results. I can't believe I'm the only one (except for Tom) to test their new rifles. 

Finally, note that the trigger break effort required for my gun is starting to lighten up some.

Looking forward to your results.

Best wishes.

The other Mark B.

Just saw this post. Interesting results. Does lend me to believe the test gun Airgun Depot had did have a slightly higher gas charge than the production guns will have. Did you watch the 29 min video? At 4400 ft the Sniper Light pellet averaged about 866 fps. That is close to 30fps more than you achieved at 1400ft. With out a doubt, that gun was souped up. That same gun where I live would probably shoot the Sniper Light close to 900fps.

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

Interesting! Maybe sizing might result in higher numbers? I bought the Sig pellets from Sig. Same as the gun.

 

[JW652]

Concerning accuracy, over the years I have found that most of my springers prefer medium weight pellets. 14.3 and 15.9 JSBs and H&N Trophy pellets are the ones I try first and most of my rifles like at least one of them after a break in period. Current "Premiers" and other cheap pellets might work OK at 25 yds, but often don't hold accuracy at longer ranges.

Just some thoughts. Thanks for the testing info. This rifle has created a lot of interest,

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

Concerning accuracy, over the years I have found that most of my springers prefer medium weight pellets. 14.3 and 15.9 JSBs and H&N Trophy pellets are the ones I try first and most of my rifles like at least one of them after a break in period. Current "Premiers" and other cheap pellets might work OK at 25 yds, but often don't hold accuracy at longer ranges.

Just some thoughts. Thanks for the testing info. This rifle has created a lot of interest,

I agree, midrange pellet weights seem to give me the best accuracy. Pointed pellets gave me good accuracy results in only one of the three gas-spring air rifles I owned. The exception with pointed pellets was my .20 cal RX1. The most accurate pellet was with the Beeman Silver Jet. Those were the ones made in Japan in the late 80's and early 90's. Very accurate! Seen some on Ebay. But the price !! $$$

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-BOXES-of-BEEMAN-SILVER-JETS-20-5MM-Box-of-300-per-box-NOS/332917909840?hash=item4d83742950:g:2dkAAOSw2B5ZynO1&redirect=mobile

 

[ranedouglas]

......well.....shoot , guys..... i was thinking and hoping that more of us would have a new asp20 to share and brag about. if the breech end where the pellet inserts isnt chamfered or beveled well enough , the pellet head will snag or drag -- but -- i generally see that on chinese and turkish break barrels. i would never think to encounter that on a gun in this price range...hmm... maybe yall are on about something else there where the pellet loads. have yall pushed a hard leaded pellet (like crosman premier) thru the barrel with a cleaning rod to find out if the way the pellet drags thru the barrel is consistent ? ......and on those cheap break barrels , i just use a large #1 or #2 phillips screwdriver - or even a drill bit - just something that has no chance of entering the rifling from being large in diameter - and spin it in the breech . it doesnt take much spinning but sure makes loading and shooting more enjoyable.... and i have been looking all over the internet for this gun with that whishey3 scope as a combo , but i cannot find the combo.....any help there would be cool.

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

......well.....shoot , guys..... i was thinking and hoping that more of us would have a new asp20 to share and brag about. if the breech end where the pellet inserts isnt chamfered or beveled well enough , the pellet head will snag or drag -- but -- i generally see that on chinese and turkish break barrels. i would never think to encounter that on a gun in this price range...hmm... maybe yall are on about something else there where the pellet loads. have yall pushed a hard leaded pellet (like crosman premier) thru the barrel with a cleaning rod to find out if the way the pellet drags thru the barrel is consistent ? ......and on those cheap break barrels , i just use a large #1 or #2 phillips screwdriver - or even a drill bit - just something that has no chance of entering the rifling from being large in diameter - and spin it in the breech . it doesnt take much spinning but sure makes loading and shooting more enjoyable.... and i have been looking all over the internet for this gun with that whishey3 scope as a combo , but i cannot find the combo.....any help there would be cool.

The tight fitting pellet is of concern to me. Sounds like it's a bigger issue with the Sig pellets. I may consider a sizer. I had one marked 5.52mm that sized the pellet to .215". I would prefer a finished size in the .218 to .220" range.

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

I just realized after reviewing my Sig order that I purchased the Sig Crux pellets instead of the Wraith pellet. Went to Amazon and purchased a box of the Wraith for a total (with shipping) for $15.46. They are the same weight and I will checked dimensions with a dial caliper. Now I have three pellets to test. IS IT DECEMBER 11th YET !!!