one cannot think in terms of price for a hobby , think of golf ? i know a guy that has no less than 16 top of the price point putters , 15 are stored in the closet .
Sightron S6 field target
- Thread starter Hopsing
- Start date
Looked thru one last week at RMAC, super nice glass. Magnetic side wheel fits great, nice and tight. Didn't get a chance to check the ranging on it as it was set up on a tripod and people walking all around.
Upvote 0
Mr. Robinson, and Mr. Hull,
If the powers to be wanted us Hunter competitors to play the big scope game they would lift our power restrictions. It would be a hell of a lot cheaper to continue to beg them again for a change instead of wasting money on scopes that will never work as they should for Hunter Class. My father always said if you whine long enough someone will throw you a slice of cheese.
Ron, I am very surprised with your interest in Sightron's. I always thought you had stock in Weaver.
If the powers to be wanted us Hunter competitors to play the big scope game they would lift our power restrictions. It would be a hell of a lot cheaper to continue to beg them again for a change instead of wasting money on scopes that will never work as they should for Hunter Class. My father always said if you whine long enough someone will throw you a slice of cheese.
Ron, I am very surprised with your interest in Sightron's. I always thought you had stock in Weaver.Upvote 0
FYI, I spoke to Sightron customer support and they said the new scopes are trickling in and they have filled a few back orders. It sounded like mostly to distributors.
Upvote 0
Mr. Robinson, and Mr. Hull,
If the powers to be wanted us Hunter competitors to play the big scope game they would lift our power restrictions. It would be a hell of a lot cheaper to continue to beg them again for a change instead of wasting money on scopes that will never work as they should for Hunter Class. My father always said if you whine long enough someone will throw you a slice of cheese.
Hi Bill.
Obviously if the FT Powers That Be cared whether We The Hunters played the Big Scope game those powers must be sorely disappointed that their efforts have failed so miserably. From what I can tell, I'm the ONLY serious Hunter FT competitor not playing the Big Scope game with total, unchecked, utter abandon.
That I am interested in my Hunter competitors' equipment has more to do with how much all serious Hunter shooters have abandoned not only the roots and history of Field Target (originally a hunting-simulation competition), but totally abandoned the roots and history of Hunter division (originally a place for newbies and/or non-COMPETITION-SPECIFIC equipment)... and done so at any and ALL cost(s)$$$.
FWIW, I recently sold all my Weaver stock and reinvested those capital gains in a collection of Ferraris, Lamborghinis and Bugattis, and a ten-million square foot museum of exotic collectable vehicles to keep them in. Paid cash $$$, and let them keep the tandem semi (required to deliver the cash).
FYI- I'm now using as many vintage, Japanese-made, 1" tube, front objective-focusing Bushnells in Hunter competition as I am Weaver V16s; partly just to aggravate all my competitors that thought me incapable of evolving with the times
. The Bushnells are a couple years later production than V16s. Nice to hear from you Bill. I understand you're still a-stirrin' the pot. Me, not as much as in the past. Got tired of shouting at those deafer than me
(after my megaphone 
wore out).Happy Shooting, Bud.
.
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Was the original intent to allow those with low power scopes to be competitive in Hunter Division? Looking at the equipment list at most FT matches, gives an indication that rule does not serve much purpose these days. At this point, I think that the whole section in the Hunter Division rules about what one can and can’t do with scope settings should be removed and Hunter Division could just follow the Common FT rules like the other two Divisions. It would simplify the rules and remove some confusion.Mr. Robinson, and Mr. Hull,
If the powers to be wanted us Hunter competitors to play the big scope game they would lift our power restrictions. It would be a hell of a lot cheaper to continue to beg them again for a change instead of wasting money on scopes that will never work as they should for Hunter Class. My father always said if you whine long enough someone will throw you a slice of cheese.
These days, I consider 6-24x to be the sweet spot for general purpose scopes, so that’s what I use on most of my rifles. I had a 15x60x56 Ares that had great glass and worked good for ranging at 55yds. That’s probably what I should have stuck with if I wanted to shoot WFTF regularly. But using that scope reinforced that I don’t like/need 60x scopes for short range shooting. Even made me decide that I don’t want to shoot WFTF in the future. I sold that scope. I’ll stick with my 24x scope and 20fpe for FT.
I must confess that I’m now moving to 30x scopes on some of my longer range airguns. But definitely not for their focus range finding ability. I’ve decided that particular feature/attribute should not even be on my wish list
Upvote 0
100% agree.
I'm not sure if the initial intent of the 16x (edit:12x initially and later 16x) limit was to make it easier for entry into ft, as an attempt to balance out the perceived gain in stability via the use of shooting sticks, or as a deterrent to people staying in Hunter (ie Hunter as the starting point, with the goal of eventually having them move on to Open or WFTF).
Regardless, at this point Hunter is the same equipment race that the other classes are. And very few newbies are coming. People start in Hunter, and stay in Hunter. Hell, even a bunch of the previous Open shooters moved to Hunter in th clubs I attend. With the popularity of Hunter, might as well let Hunter class shooters use more scope magnification. At this point I don't see any good reason to keep it limited to 16x.
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Yes, competitive with one-another. But before that, digging WAY deep in Hunter roots, we actually taped over the yardage markings on our front objectives with electrical tape.
That completely leveled the scope-advantage playing field; hence succumbed to equipment-freak lobbying..
Upvote 0
I think that ship sailed Years ago on the low power optics of the Hunter class being some sort of perceived "leveling of the field" or throttling miens against WFTF & OPEN class shooters on the same field of play. Pre 2017 indeed 12X was difficult, but some did not let that derail or limit them shooting quite successfully along side traditional classes. Post 2017 has been no different by in large with Hunter at 16X, yea a tad easier showing again that perhaps optics was less the reason why the class's overall scoring success has been so great & folks are staying in the class, and just perhaps ... Stability and range of seating/supporting options a Hunter shooter has at there disposal is that reason ???
So why not open up the optics X factor, as if ones looking at advantages we in hunter class have, we have had it all along and its not glass.
Lol
So why not open up the optics X factor, as if ones looking at advantages we in hunter class have, we have had it all along and its not glass.
LolUpvote 0
Yeah, I mentioned the hunting simulation aspect in a recent thread, and got corrected that FT is just another "shooting game" and that "it does not try to simulate hunting."
I think that's really too bad.
➠ I like shooting when it's close to "real life shooting" — meaning "hunting".
We did that in the military all the time — hunting simulations, though in that case it was hunting enemy soldiers.
Thank God I never had to do the real life thing.
But in the case of hunting, yeah, I'd like competitions that closely simulate real hunting — with typical hunting restrictions — and with the equipment we have at our disposal in 2024, not that of a few decades ago....
:For example:
● Range finders (so, no Sightron S6 range finding needed)
● No magnification restriction (rather, scopes with a wide magnification range are preferrable as they allow for both those quick close range shots, and the very long range shots)
● Anemometer
● Some forced shooting positions (like in real life)
● Some time constraints (for certain type of quarry)
● Some very long range shots
● Some slugs
● ....
OK, before you stone me, or send me to a mental institution, let me clarify:I'm sure my comments won't influence the course of shooting competitions in the US.
However, I live and shoot in Peru — and there are almost no airgun shooting competitions happening. And those that do happen — are patently boring and far removed from real hunting scenarios.
➠ I'm working on designing competitions that follow the field target roots of hunting simulations — and different game and different environments call for different simulations.
Fun, fun, fun!
Matthias
Upvote 0
Yeah, I mentioned the hunting simulation aspect in a recent thread, and got corrected that FT is just another "shooting game" and that "it does not try to simulate hunting."
I think that's really too bad.
➠ I like shooting when it's close to "real life shooting" — meaning "hunting".
We did that in the military all the time — hunting simulations, though in that case it was hunting enemy soldiers.
Thank God I never had to do the real life thing.
But in the case of hunting, yeah, I'd like competitions that closely simulate real hunting — with typical hunting restrictions — and with the equipment we have at our disposal in 2024, not that of a few decades ago....
For example:
● Range finders (so, no Sightron S6 range finding needed)
● No magnification restriction (rather, scopes with a wide magnification range are preferrable as they allow for both those quick close range shots, and the very long range shots)
● Anemometer
● Some forced shooting positions (like in real life)
● Some time constraints (for certain type of quarry)
● Some very long range shots
● Some slugs
● ....
I'm sure my comments won't influence the course of shooting competitions in the US.
However, I live and shoot in Peru — and there are almost no airgun shooting competitions happening. And those that do happen — are patently boring and far removed from real hunting scenarios.
➠ I'm working on designing competitions that follow the field target roots of hunting simulations — and different game and different environments call for different simulations.
Fun, fun, fun!
Matthias
Excellent post, Matt; as usual!
And also as usual, I 'might' have a few pertinent responses. 1) Yeah, I've also been 'corrected' for referring to FT as a hunting-simulation competition by some ill-qualified to correct me. That falls under the heading "consider the source". Guess you can't blame FT newbies for not knowing FT history.
2) "with the equipment we have at our disposal in 2024, not that of a few decades ago....
". You only wish for that because you're not a crazy old throwback Neanderthal from hell, like that weirdo that (still) purposely uses hunting equipment in hunting-simulation COMPETITIONS. He's the one that should be sent to a mental institution, not you Amigo.3) I'd add one want to your hunting-simulation want list- moving targets! Talk about fun, FUN, FUN!!!
4) Since you're the one starting a new competition, you have carte blanche to design it as you wish. That's what I did... several times.
5) Be aware as it grows there will be increasing pressure to change/evolve it to conform to the wants of others. Hence, I suggest you structure it as a dictatorship, rather than democracy. I'm old enough to remember strong leaders that listened to criticism, but did not pander to critics.
Happy Shooting,
R
Upvote 0
Yes, I that needs to be on the list: To simulate stalk hunting — of the Andean Tinamou, a type of partridge in the mountains. Maybe combined with a 50 yard dash right before the shot — as the typical altitudes of 10.000ft+ leave the hunter short of breath....
Ron, you certainly are an inspiration in what you have accomplished in the US, "extreme pistol field target" and the like — how cool is that!?
The sky's the limit — why bow to earth-tethered tradition when we could be flying the skies?!
That's sage advice from a veteran who's been through the ups and downs of five (or six?) decades of shooting.
I think I will do that.
Thanks a lot for your very thoughtful reply! Matthias
Upvote 0
Gonna respectfully disagree with this part of your post, Scott.
It was almost completely unheard of that a(ny) Hunter division shooter posted High Overall score in any FT competition when the Hunter magnification limit was 12X; even after the buckets and bipods concession to the loudest voices became the norm. But since I successfully coerced the powers that be to increase the Hunter mag limit (in order to prevent growing unrest evolving to civil war), high overall scores posted at many (if not most) FT competitions are posted by Hunters.
BTW, I was coercing the powers that be to "open up the optics X factor"; but they chose a 16X COMPROMISE solution instead. That quieted the loud voices for awhile; but as I predicted at the time, THEY'RE BAAAAACK!
.
Upvote 0
But, what do you think about Sightron S6 FT ? I compared it side by side with my S3, much clearer and brighter, so far it's working well for me...
Upvote 0
maybe a club should open the rule and let whatever power scopes to be used, compare the scores to what you shot in the past , same club same lanes .
I would say that it would have to be several practice matches and at least 40 targets per match . This would gain real life data not just "i Think " .
I would say that it would have to be several practice matches and at least 40 targets per match . This would gain real life data not just "i Think " .
Upvote 0
Instead of opening up the class rules to make the different classes "even" wouldn't it be better to just eliminate the "Over all" high score award and just award the individual class high scores. People can now shoot the class they can afford/enjoy. You can now tighten up the Hunter rules to minimize the equipment race required to compete. Removing rangefinding with scopes will help even things up.
Upvote 0
That was done quite a bit a couple years back. Still going on at some venues. On average, helped a little. Cleaning the course never became a thing for any of them.
Upvote 0
I believe the key limitation is 16 x. As I own the new S6 it’s amazing to 35 yards then blahzay but turn it to 30X and I can differentiate by the 1/2 yards to 65 yards easily… that said it’s 16X In HFT so blahzay
Upvote 0