Anybody that has a skirtless piston, and the latch rod is rounded,
will the factory trigger still work?
will the factory trigger still work?
HW/Weihrauch Skirtless piston
- Thread starter Temesvar
- Start date
The long skirt of the piston has the sole role of guiding the latch. Without, the latch hook has to be round. Was wondering if the trigger will work without alteration.
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The taper on oem TX rods work just fine with skirtless pistons. Just make sure you are using a nice straight rod when assembling the skirtless piston.
Steve
Steve
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The skirt is to guide the rod to latch. Without that guide, the latch will not line up.
That is my question: will the trigger work?
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Ok. You can make them skirt less With some work. but YOU WILL HAVE TO USE A TX ROD AND ADJUST THE UPPER SEAR ON THE REKORD or use a CD TRIGGER , across the pond a bloke made some UPPER SEARS for rekord triggers to take a AA ,ROD. TO USE THE CD UNIT IN A HW , REAR BLOCK MACHINING NEEDS BE DONE ,as well as saftey work
THE REKORD latch is only on one side. Hook up.
Is this something you plan on doing as it’s not a easy to do mod. I’ve used both AA RODS IN HW guns with REKORDS
THE REKORD latch is only on one side. Hook up.
Is this something you plan on doing as it’s not a easy to do mod. I’ve used both AA RODS IN HW guns with REKORDS
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That is what am looking for. Don't know how it is called, but yes, a rod with round hook.
That i can deal with. Just wonder about the adjustment on the trigger.
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Am not sure if worth the trouble. Can make the piston as light as possible,
by leaving just enough material to guide the latch pin. Already have it way
lighter than factory. But the perspective of skirtless , therefore guideless, is
appealing.
by leaving just enough material to guide the latch pin. Already have it way
lighter than factory. But the perspective of skirtless , therefore guideless, is
appealing.
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With all due respect , Have you worked on springers , maching parts. ?
This is doable but to the very experienced mechanic. Otherwise you should know that all skirtless pistons are rotating pistons know matter what UNDERLEVER you put them in as well as the trigger mods needed. Now I may be wrong. But just asking that raises red flags.
You need a TX type Rod and either a HW GROUND UPPER trigger SEAR OR A CD TRIGGER WITH REAR BLOCK MACHINING.
Skirtless idea is small compression chamber with 12 ft lbs under.
This is doable but to the very experienced mechanic. Otherwise you should know that all skirtless pistons are rotating pistons know matter what UNDERLEVER you put them in as well as the trigger mods needed. Now I may be wrong. But just asking that raises red flags.
You need a TX type Rod and either a HW GROUND UPPER trigger SEAR OR A CD TRIGGER WITH REAR BLOCK MACHINING.
Skirtless idea is small compression chamber with 12 ft lbs under.
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You may read that it is possible to grind the HW sear to take a TX rod (like I did) but I wouldn't recommend it. Yes it will function for a while, but may end up looking like this-
The sear in the first pic is one of the ones a fella had made and correctly hardened over here (can't remember who now) and is still going strong to this day in my 77 was a K-
The sear in the first pic is one of the ones a fella had made and correctly hardened over here (can't remember who now) and is still going strong to this day in my 77 was a K-
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Just to reiterate, you cannot go skirtless in a break barrel, unless you are going to incorporate a secondary sliding compression tube within, that has a clever seal and locks via the cocking shoe/ arm. I'm toying with the idea right now as it happens, but the increase in TP/ lost volume is undesirable.....
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Is the juice worth the squeeze?
In my pastime in drag racing engines reducing rotating and reciprocal weight was a way to gain power and very important to some more than others. The largest weight reductions almost always came with tradeoffs that would have to be weighed by the racer. Aluminum connecting rods made more power but lost durability so they had to be change periodically or there would be catastrophic failure. Short skirt pistons didn't seal as well which added the complications of gasported rings. Aluminum flywheels accelerated quicker but didn't hold enough momentum to launch some cars.
I understand reducing moving mass in a guns piston reduces recoil energy but I would think it would introduce more piston bounce to manage. I'm sure there's smarter people than I out there that can figure out how to counter that with springs and transfer port sizing. But ultimately is the gains worth the trouble. I guess that depends on your skills and budget.
When I first opened a piston gun and didn't know anything conceptually about them, I immediately thought of lightening the piston by porting the skirt. Now I'm more inclined to fine tune a gun by adding small amounts of weight to reduce bounce. I've had this occasionally help efficiency without negatively affecting accuracy or manners.
I understand that the knowledge levels of tuning this involves is above mine so I'm not saying it can't be done. I just want to understand the why and how this works.
Please update us on your build progress and results.
In my pastime in drag racing engines reducing rotating and reciprocal weight was a way to gain power and very important to some more than others. The largest weight reductions almost always came with tradeoffs that would have to be weighed by the racer. Aluminum connecting rods made more power but lost durability so they had to be change periodically or there would be catastrophic failure. Short skirt pistons didn't seal as well which added the complications of gasported rings. Aluminum flywheels accelerated quicker but didn't hold enough momentum to launch some cars.
I understand reducing moving mass in a guns piston reduces recoil energy but I would think it would introduce more piston bounce to manage. I'm sure there's smarter people than I out there that can figure out how to counter that with springs and transfer port sizing. But ultimately is the gains worth the trouble. I guess that depends on your skills and budget.
When I first opened a piston gun and didn't know anything conceptually about them, I immediately thought of lightening the piston by porting the skirt. Now I'm more inclined to fine tune a gun by adding small amounts of weight to reduce bounce. I've had this occasionally help efficiency without negatively affecting accuracy or manners.
I understand that the knowledge levels of tuning this involves is above mine so I'm not saying it can't be done. I just want to understand the why and how this works.
Please update us on your build progress and results.
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Am retired machinist, and have access to a machine shop. Although, wish they had a better lathe...
Am playing with my guns just as a challenge and curiosity. I like how my HW 97 shoots now with a much lighter piston. I guess will have to give up on skirtless. It may be great for target, but lose much power. Thanks for taking the time to respond Upvote 0
Now am sure not to get into this.
. Not worth it, at least not for me. Thanks for the clear depiction of the trigger mod. And that sure is a nice gun rest!! Upvote 0
If your looking for smooth target power , lightening the piston is a way , but there are many ways to skin a cat.
caliber dependent. .22 being easiest. Then .20 . .177 always is hardest to get smoothest for many reasons. It’s counter intuitive to what most think In spring gun tuning.
caliber dependent. .22 being easiest. Then .20 . .177 always is hardest to get smoothest for many reasons. It’s counter intuitive to what most think In spring gun tuning.
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You put it very well: is the juice worth the squeeze! I guess not, not for me, anyways. Have lightened the pistons on my guns and they have less recoil. Am new to this myself. Is just curiosity.
The HW 97 piston is 205 g. from 260 factory. It reduced the speed about 30 fps. With Vortek Steel guide and better spring, shoots well 700 fps with H&N FTT 14.66 gr.
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That is exactly why I took apart the first gun and play with: some said that a lighter piston will increase speed. So i learned how is just the opposite. And, as retired, have some time to skin the cat!!
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