Skout Skout Epoch Share and Discussion

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thomasair said:
Because it has more muzzle blast.
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As I said, lower pressure and longer barrel to make up for that lower pressure and keeping the valve open longer, more air in the barrel.

Lower pressure is less efficient to boot which doesn't help. Its basically acting like your.....4" @ 20 fpe barrel for crying out loud, not the 20" in your comparison...
 
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Scotty1 said:
The reg pressure isn’t so very low, my .25 is set around 120 bar, with a 35” barrel 68-70 FPE.
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Curious how you feel the recoil is on yours? Seems it should be really efficient at that power with that arrangement. I imagine its tame.

From the factory however I am sure they come set at a much lower reg pressure, at least originally, was one of their selling points.

-Matt
 
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Did anyone ever actually run the efficiency numbers? It’s a long thread and I might have missed it.

Obtaining the necessary volumes might be difficult for a conclusive number, I’m not sure.

120bar, 1740psi would be considered low pressure by today’s standards for making efficient power. As such, I can see why the report is substantial. Higher initial pressure reduces residual pressure when power remains the same.

As far as the valve flowing more of low pressure air, it will forever be limited by bore diameter. I fail to see how the valve magically makes low pressure do what others can’t. I really do want to understand because different and innovative systems intrigue me.

The big red flag is the need for longer barrel to produce industry equivalent power. That’s not the valve making power, it’s the barrel. Nothing new there.

Dave
 
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Ok it has been a bit having the EPOCH running as a .22 cal.
Early on this spring I had done some valving modification that catered to gaining some efficiency while running as a .30 cal.
Those changes lightly outlined below:
Heavier spool return spring ...
.002" Larger vent hole in poppet head ...
Tapered transfer path in Seat/Barrel manifold taking the .350" down to @ .250" at exit.
Cleaned up bridge on barrel thimble.

Now permanently running as a .22 cal have decided to go back in and re-calibrate most of it with similar mods tho smaller in area / size etc better suited to the caliber.
Those changes are outlined below & shared in pictures added to this post 🥰
Took out the HUGE poppet seat ( .350" throat & transfer ) replacing with a modified one of much smaller size NOW seat is @ .312" throat and transfer @ .280".
Tapered Transfer tube pulled out and another one made being .280" to .217" at exit. * So we're running at 100% bore diameter and nothing more.
* Poppet head got a small radius undercut to relief the tight clearance inboard of the sealing o-ring increasing flow a tad bit.
Jet hole at .039" being .004" larger than OEM spec.
Had previously cleaned up bridge on barrel thimble.

Testing data pending as I get it sorted :rolleyes:

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Few weeks ago took poppet jet to .041"
Heavier spring closing poppet / spool
Kept electronic dwell at #25 setting
Smaller poppet seat ( Silver one )
Newest tapered transfer tube .280"/.217"
25" barrel in .22 caliber
Reg/s ... HP @ 1500 to 1800 psi & LP @ 125-140 psi

Shoots and operates IMO the best it ever has .. simply awesome !!!
quiet & snappy with far less muzzle jump ( less air blast from reduced valve dwell is key to this )

** AGAIN these are NOT required modifications to make ... I'm a R&D guy & Tuner and as such always tinker in search of improved operation beyond the OEM "Works for all calibers" state of tune / set up that production PCP's generally use these days.

This type work for me is a solid 50% of the AG hobby & getting to shoot them is the rest. :love:
 
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Motorhead said:
Few weeks ago took poppet jet to .041"
Heavier spring closing poppet / spool
Kept electronic dwell at #25 setting
Smaller poppet seat ( Silver one )
Newest tapered transfer tube .280"/.217"
25" barrel in .22 caliber
Reg/s ... HP @ 1500 to 1800 psi & LP @ 125-140 psi

Shoots and operates IMO the best it ever has .. simply awesome !!!
quiet & snappy with far less muzzle jump ( less air blast from reduced valve dwell is key to this )

** AGAIN these are NOT required modifications to make ... I'm a R&D guy & Tuner and as such always tinker in search of improved operation beyond the OEM "Works for all calibers" state of tune / set up that production PCP's generally use these days.

This type work for me is a solid 50% of the AG hobby & getting to shoot them is the rest. :love:
Click to expand...
That is really interesting stuff you came up with! It would be cool if SKOUT could make some tuning inserts following your ideas above. That is what is cool about this platform. It allows for some component changes that could be drop in from the factory.
 
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DanT55 said:
That is really interesting stuff you came up with! It would be cool if SKOUT could make some tuning inserts following your ideas above. That is what is cool about this platform. It allows for some component changes that could be drop in from the factory.
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We know SKOUT follows threads on the AG forums, so with that the info is being gathered.
The new "EVO" has the magnetic cocking handle retention, which the EPOCH did not. Obviously they listened to users and perhaps followed my posts on how i went about it with the EPOCH ? As most manufactures are .. if they use ideas or R&D publicly shared, we who post such info seldom hear about it :rolleyes:
 
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DanT55 said:
On another note...what have you guys experienced by changing dwell? I am currently at 23ms which I think is factory. Im shooting a .25 and 34gr JSB's at 888 with about 142 LP and 1500 HP. Would a bit more dwell allow for a lower psi or just waste air? Thanks, DT
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Im shooting .30 Zan brs at 950 and with the long barrel my dwell is 34 I believe. The gun shoots amazing with this setting.
 
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Shooting .25 caliber.

I didn't play with the dwell much with the 25" barrel, I stopped at 25ms because it shot so well. About 1600-1650 HPR and 140-145 LPR, ave FPS ~940, ES and SD were really good. It was accurate as I can be.

Then I switched to the 35" barrel just to try it. The ES and SD rose quite a bit and got erratic and groups were growing. I've been raising dwell a little at a time from 23ms, now I'm at 27ms. The ES and SD are tightening up again, shooting a bit better. Not as tight as the 25" barrel but it's improving. Although I'm also raising the LPR, which is likely helping. The HPR is 1250-1300, LPR 160, dwell 27ms, FPS ~933. That makes sense to me to raise the dwell with a longer barrel. Maybe it's like finding a balance?

One thing to note. I have been changing some "O" rings to the Buna N on the HPR like Centercut and Motorhead have been experimenting with. I did finally get the upper reg body inner "O" ring changed out but haven't shot it yet. I do it mostly because I like to try things. I just have to make myself do one thing at a time, then try it!

Brian
 
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DanT55 said:
What's your LP and HP set at?
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1585 hp
130 lp
I got the dwell from Tim Swan, the bench rest guy who makes the harmonic tuners. I was having issues of wild es and obviously sd when I went to the long barrel. He told me about the dwell and now my es is single digits.
Sorry I just got back on to answer, I just got a free minute and then I had to charge the digital gauge on my hp reg.
 
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Heyboy said:
1585 hp
130 lp
I got the dwell from Tim Swan, the bench rest guy who makes the harmonic tuners. I was having issues if wild es and obviously sd when I went to the long barrel. He told me about the dwell and now my es is single digits.
Sorry I just got back on to answer, I just got a free minute and then I had to charge the digital gauge on my hp reg.
Click to expand...
No worries. Thanks for the info. I’m at approx 1500 and 150. Dwell at 23ms, factory I believe. Shooting around 900 with 34gr. Still trying to tighten up the es and sd so will play with dwell. I’m on the standard barrel for now.
 
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DanT55 said:
No worries. Thanks for the info. I’m at approx 1500 and 150. Dwell at 23ms, factory I believe. Shooting around 900 with 34gr. Still trying to tighten up the es and sd so will play with dwell. I’m on the standard barrel for now.
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I was amazed with the numbers that I almost thought my chronograph was off, lol.
All this talk about the Epoch I got it out and shot a group off my tripod sitting on my stool at 50 yards. My reg is actually at 1620 after it settles down after 1/2 a magazine here’s two quick groups. The first one is not great but the second one’s better. Off a bench it is amazing what it can do. Both are 6 shot groups. The second one I dropped one, that was me but with no rear support but I think it is ok.

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IMG_6556.jpeg
 
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