Skout Skout Epoch tuning questions?

[Tricky-Dicky]

Now I realise this may be a bit different as I am limited to 12ftlbs in the UK, but I have recently got myself an Epoch and has what we call anti tamper in that the low pressure reg is not adjustable and the high pressure reg is fitted with a weaker spring and lacks a spacer shim to stop it being turned up any further than the sub 12 limit which is a bit limiting pun intended! Anyway I have been messing with the dwell adjustment, and normally I would adjust this, so I get the fps I want with minimal air usage, so I adjusted the dwell low to start but thought I would probably need a pit more reg pressure to accommodate this so added a shim to the reg adjuster so it could be raised slightly in response to the low dwell.

The result was it made little difference, so started incrementally increasing the dwell and expecting the fps to increase with the dwell but no there was very little difference other than a change in the firing cycle/sound, am I barking up the wrong tree with my adjustments? Accuracy wise its seems OK but in my so far three short sessions it has been pretty windy and dam cold so I can't really tell for sure, but the indications seem good, which brings me to another observation what grease do they use on the cocking action as the cocking got markedly stiffer with the temperature drop for indoors to just 5c but freed up again when back inside.

The other thing I will have to address is the noise amplifier on the end of the barrel, I tried several options to try and quieten it but nothing has worked so far so I have gone as far as to order a Dony adapter and will make my own moderator and hope that will do the job, thanks for any help guys.

The moderator is ready to go once I get the adapter.

 

[Motorhead]

That is a TOUGH ONE ... No clue what else internally is ( DETUNED ) for that low of output power ?
Having had my EPOCH for just a shy of 2 years now & having been inside many times to change around specs etc .... The rifle BREATHs !!!! as in it is by design a Power House !!

Generally speaking when valve is large, porting is large etc etc ... taking small controlled Sips of air while doing so with great control and efficiency are not generally in the same conversation

The electronic DWELL is how long valve stays open releasing air from plenum ... These rifles use a SPOOL VALVE and to get consistent valve opening there is a threshold of dwell required having more dwell just wasting air.
POWER on these rifles is directly tied to HP reg setting and not LP adjustment. * Both regs work together so as HP is raised the LP comes up a bit too or visa/versa.

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

Thanks! I suspect that the transfer porting has also been reduced somewhere, and dwell is as I expected but if its being strangled by the TP short of opening up which is what I would do on a normal gun I am not sure, sound like it's time to get into the valve and regs just to see what's what, it does seem like the reg need quite a large amount of adjustment to make very little change though is that normal?

 

[Motorhead]

it does seem like the reg need quite a large amount of adjustment to make very little change though is that normal?

No, when these rifles are in a typical state of tune here in the states, Power ramps right up with increases in HP setting.
* Sounds like they have a STRANGLER in the flow path somewhere ???

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

I am going to go into the rifle over the next couple of day just to see what's going on I suspect the transfer port has been substituted for a smaller one and that in conjunction with the regs is the source of the inability to tune more efficiently, I just hope they haven't changed the valve as well as it seems to defeat what the gun is all about just to have the anti tamper that manufactures seem to put on UK guns, with no real law other than it must not be over 12ftlb.

It just feels like we get the crap end of the stick just because some cant be trusted to play around just to get more power when in reality most air gun enthusiasts will try and get the best from their guns and still stick to the UK limit, I know of several other Skout owners in the UK that have the full power versions just turned down which seems stupid to suddenly put restrictions on it.

I see no reason just why the restricted gun cant be just as good as the full all singing/dancing model, I realise the technology was originally developed for the paintball industry where larger heavier ammunition was propelled at lower velocities so why can't the lower powered gun be just as tunable I can do it with all my other PCPs both mechanical and electric/mechanical.

 

[Trucker3573]

Not sure I am fully understanding the problems but it’s perfectly normal for the dwell to not have much effect on velocity. It doesn’t on my fac version. Velocity is accomplished with the hpr and a sub 12 just really isn’t going to have much adjustment I suspect. I just move the dwell around to find the setting that gives the best groups. Glad I’m not over there as I would be in trouble as my guns would end up non restricted. Lol

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

Not sure I am fully understanding the problems but it’s perfectly normal for the dwell to not have much effect on velocity. It doesn’t on my fac version. Velocity is accomplished with the hpr and a sub 12 just really isn’t going to have much adjustment I suspect. I just move the dwell around to find the setting that gives the best groups. Glad I’m not over there as I would be in trouble as my guns would end up non restricted. Lol

Thanks for that feed back, I had expected increasing dwell to up the velocity a little, but it just doesn't seem to behave that way, It is rather annoying as you buy a very adaptable high-end guns and then find you can't do much with all that adjustment, it was the same with my Alpha Wolf, but I now run that on the high power settings and turn it down but at least I can set the fps for the selected pellet weight.

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

Just managed to tape my moderator to the end of the original, and it works very well, but now I am left with nearly as much noise which I presume is from the valve good job it's not intended as a hunting gun It's still noisy!

 

[Scotty1]

My Epochs seem louder from the shooters position, than they are from a few feet away. Have someone else shoot the rifle, while you observe, you might be surprised.

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

Just found out why the sub 12 version lacks the adjustability it should have it is very heavily strangled, rather disappointing as I had hoped it would just be a limit on the reg adjustment but pretty much everything has been restricted, I have other guns that are sub 12 with more scope for adjustment so all in all a bit of a disappointment all around especially at the price point.

 

[manabeknives]

Looks like you found where they "strangled" the air flow
The valve face in the breech black is very constricted compared to the FAC version

 

[Motorhead]

Indeed ...
My EPOCH came as a .30 cal and utilized a Massive @ .340" throat poppet seat.
*My intent all along was to one day convert to .22 caliber, which was finally done this past spring.

I had been playing with transfer path restriction ( Tapered ) passing threw that back block/manifold, and was able to get a smaller seat that as I recall was @ 1/4" or tad above 6mm.
* The tapered transfer path tube is still in place and seat along with the path to its edge opened up to @ .280" which was ideal for a high output .22 set up ... IMO

Now the UK liability on output is yours alone to bear ... having a LATHE and a Mill or vised drill press, should be able to modify seat to what ever size you wish ???

As too the VENT size on end of poppet, as I recall the oem size was @ .050" and have increased it to @ .053" to cut the pressure force closure dwell down a tad.

 

[Motorhead]

PS,
Also had done a bit of flow enhancement aiding air to get moving quicker towards & into throat on inboard side of poppets sealing o-ring.

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

Glad to know someone has gone into modifying their Epoch, I modify most of my guns and on buying an Alpha Wolf last year I made major modifications to it and run the high power software, but I have configured it to be still under the UK limit, but it means I can select my pellet weight and the desired speed,

Although this is a brand-new gun I have little faith in most dealers for warranty repairs so will probably end up doing some modifications, looking at you pics it looks like the valve seats/TP are available separately? (don't know about UK though) but I suspect it may end up enlarged slightly as this alone is going to affect just how the high pressure reg and dwell effect the velocity and its control, thanks for the insight.