Skout EPOCH Update - Dec 16th 2022

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

No, actually the word made is quite ambiguous. Is a piece of jade or tigereye jewelry crafted by an artisan in Montana "made" in America? Of course it is even though the gem stone was mined half a world away. So you see, the words " made in America " are actually quite ambiguous. Personally I was conceived in Germany even though I was born in Baltimore. So, what about me? Was I made in America?

However you wanna try spin it it's ok with me

As I mentioned before I think China can make some great stuff and I've been praising China for all the great affordable accessories they are making for us PCP shooters., and I wouldn't care if the gun is made in china or not if it's a good gun it's a good gun period.

But......if you tell me the gun is designed in the US and then is made in china in a chinese factory with chinese workers and chinese machines then is made in china,....ship to the US and assembled there, so to me, maybe I'm the minority here ( and usually am ) the MADE in the US is a missleading label.

 

[Nsboost]

“Pew pew was meant to reference something we can not talk on this forum about”

So then why bring it up if we’re not allowed to talk about it. I don’t need a reference about your uncle’s artisanal PRS pew pew to understand what air rifles are proven winners.

I’m all for new innovation in airguns. I own a Chinese made huben k1 and am very fond of it. Mostly because its valve system is one of the most revolutionary advancements in airguns. A mechanical, hammerless airgun. The first of its kind. So good in fact the boys at LCS decided to “use” it for their sk-19 and so on and so fourth. So I know very well the technology and great machining that can come from China.

*if you think AAA rifles are like any other airgun I encourage you to watch mountains sports airguns videos featuring Tom Costan.

Just because it's extremely well made and performs well, doesn't mean it is anything revolutionary or industry changing. It's just very well made and robust. Only reason I don't currently have one in my collection is... Air capacity.

You're a fan of the Huban. The innovative and (to me) somewhat of a industry changing valve design. It is not, like any other airgun (besides those who have since taken a page from their book).

The verdict is still out, but the Skout sure seems to be aiming for innovation and a total package that will only further the hobby... Something that if it delivers, could influence other manufacturers moving forward.

As of right now, Daystate.. FX... Huban... They seem to be the companies innovating technology and trying to improve on the age old airgun mechanics by trying something a little "different" (with varying degrees of innovation and success).

Regardless.. this got way out in left field as this whole conversation was sparked because some thought $3000 was too much money because it wasn't 100% made in the US... And my opinion was that it really didn't matter where it was made if it performed and was quality. You being a huban guy should have views that align with that

 

[Deleted 45061]

However you wanna try spin it it's ok with me

As I mentioned before I think China can make some great stuff and I've been praising China for all the great affordable accessories they are making for us PCP shooters., and I wouldn't care if the gun is made in china or not if it's a good gun it's a good gun period.

But......if you tell me the gun is designed in the US and then is made in china in a chinese factory with chinese workers and chinese machines then is made in china,....ship to the US and assembled there, so to me, maybe I'm the minority here ( and usually am ) the MADE in the US is a missleading label.

Manny I have seen many a thread where you voiced your love for Chinese products. I don't think I've ever seen someone love Chinese products as you have loved them, lol.


As for the labeling, I believe there is actually standards for made vs assembled labels being used. Regulations were drafted back in the 1940s or 1950s. I believe to say Made in America you would have to have more than 50% parts sourced stateside. The Mrod has something like 60% of it's parts still made here, hence why they can have it Made in the USA instead of assembled in the USA. I would have to look for the labeling laws again but there is some logic to it that is not as convoluted as some think.


I'll post a link of it when I get to it.

 

[_CTAIRGUNNER_]

Considering they have a long successful history of making absolute top of the line paintball markers... I'm sure they are using the same manufacturers to make their parts as they do their markers.

They made a GOOD paintball marker, no where near the top especially in the high end game. The shocker was a fantastic marker, even the shoebox (original) , however it was not the most reliable in comparison to the matrix series (proto or dye) , or the angels.....

Also we cannot compare paintball guns (toys) to the tools we are using here in this hobby.... they may both use air, but they are not the same.

 

[_CTAIRGUNNER_]

Manny I have seen many a thread where you voiced your love for Chinese products. I don't think I've ever seen someone love Chinese products as you have loved them, lol.


As for the labeling, I believe there is actually standards for made vs assembled labels being used that some commission made a regulation for back in the 1940s or 1950s. I believe to say Made in America you would have to have more than 50% parts sourced stateside. The Mrod has something like 60% of it's parts still made here, hence why they can have it Made in the USA instead of assembled in the USA. I would have to look for the labeling laws again but there is some logic to it that is not as convoluted as some think.


I'll post a link of it when I get to it.

Complying with the Made in USA Standard

Do you promote your products as “Made in the USA”? Under the law, some products must disclose U.S. content. For others, manufacturers and marketers who choose to make claims about the amount of U.S. content need to know about the FTC’s Made in USA Labeling Rule and Enforcement Policy Statement...

www.ftc.gov

 

[Emu]

Manny I have seen many a thread where you voiced your love for Chinese products. I don't think I've ever seen someone love Chinese products as you have loved them, lol.


As for the labeling, I believe there is actually standards for made vs assembled labels being used that some commission made a regulation for back in the 1940s or 1950s. I believe to say Made in America you would have to have more than 50% parts sourced stateside. The Mrod has something like 60% of it' them to be able to make the innovative propulsion part, but Indo not have ANY reason to believe they will make a better barrel that CZ. That is ridiculous.s parts still made here, hence why they can have it Made in the USA instead of assembled in the USA. I would have to look for the labeling laws again but there is some logic to it that is not as convoluted as some think.


I'll post a link of it when I get to it.

I am of the idea that we should not get lost in secondary aspects. Clearly the Epoch is made of almost all parts from the US.

The Epoch "could" be a very interesting new way of shooting pellets and slugs. Unfortunately, I think, their sin is trying to go absolutely alone in the travel.

They for sure got a super innovative way of propulsion that will worth the effort and that we is deeply possible be grateful to have impulsed. BUT, BUT, we DID NOT needed new barrels to be invented. CZ barrels have confirmed on Airgun Technology rifles and on RTI rifles to be far away more accurate than we shooters. So the effort of creating new barrels for the Epoch is not just a big mistake, it is a very expensive useless investment.

If the Epoch would have included a CZ barrel, the incognita would be exclusively over the main knowledge of that company, so the risk would be minor. I do not have any reason to doubt about the propulsion part (they are experts on that), but I do not have any reason to get to think that they will be able to make a better barrel than CZ. That is ridiculous.

 

[Deleted 45061]

Complying with the Made in USA Standard

Do you promote your products as “Made in the USA”? Under the law, some products must disclose U.S. content. For others, manufacturers and marketers who choose to make claims about the amount of U.S. content need to know about the FTC’s Made in USA Labeling Rule and Enforcement Policy Statement...

www.ftc.gov

 

[_CTAIRGUNNER_]

Regardless.. this got way out in left field as this whole conversation was sparked because some thought $3000 was too much money because it wasn't 100% made in the US... And my opinion was that it really didn't matter where it was made if it performed and was quality. You being a huban guy should have views that align with that

Why is a new Honda civic 4 door base model $24900 msrp and a new BMW 2 series 4 door base model $37,800 msrp?

Telling someone what their view should be, thats awful dangerous.

 

[Deleted 45061]

 

[Deleted 45061]

@CTairgunner1288 this is virtually the regs I have previously read, but I believe the page you posted is much better written for the consumer. Good find. Yeah it looks like there are a few balance points for a product to be Made in the USA, including "All or virtually all," the significance of the part that is imported (does it play a major role like a computer or is it just a screw), and then how far removed the imported item is from the finalized product. I don't work for the commission, but I'd wager those standards are high.

 

[Deleted 45061]

I am of the idea that we should not get lost in secondary aspects. Clearly the Epoch is made of almost all parts from the US.

The Epoch "could" be a very interesting new way of shooting pellets and slugs. Unfortunately, I think, their sin is trying to go absolutely alone in the travel.

They for sure got a super innovative way of propulsion that will worth the effort and that we is deeply possible be grateful to have impulsed. BUT, BUT, we DID NOT needed new barrels to be invented. CZ barrels have confirmed on Airgun Technology rifles and on RTI rifles to be far away more accurate than we shooters. So the effort of creating new barrels for the Epoch is not just a big mistake, it is a very expensive useless investment.

If the Epoch would have included a CZ barrel, the incognita would be exclusively over the main knowledge of that company, so the risk would be minor. I do not have any reason to doubt about the propulsion part (they are experts on that), but I do not have any reason to get to think that they will be able to make a better barrel than CZ. That is ridiculous.

It's their company. If they want to make a new barrel, they can assess that risk and decide what is best for them, and I am sure they have. Making a new gun like this probably is a 500,000k+ (more like a million) investment, years of time, and yes risking big. Likely just to get the first small batch is going to cost 500k just for the materials.


Any company that takes that kind of leap has assessed all their risk, costs, and so on.

I have seen the concept version of the Epoch at Shot Show. I think a little grace for a new company is good until the product is out. Once it is out you can actually get your hands on it and assess it for its merits. All that said, it does in my mind remain as a concept gun until it is released. There have been other concept guns that never hit the market or very briefly did.

 

[Sell682]

Let’s get the gun out and in our hands before we pass judgment. I’m sure if the gun performs and wins an event or two , all this talk will go to the wayside…

 

[Trucker3573]

They made a GOOD paintball marker, no where near the top especially in the high end game. The shocker was a fantastic marker, even the shoebox (original) , however it was not the most reliable in comparison to the matrix series (proto or dye) , or the angels.....

Also we cannot compare paintball guns (toys) to the tools we are using here in this hobby.... they may both use air, but they are not the same.

I think this is a little subjective. Never had a problem with any of my impulses but the heavily o ringed bolt assemblies of my dm4 and 5 needed a lot more attention. I will say in stock form the dms had better triggers and were easier to shoot fast. My impulse ended up getting a WAS board and an I frame.

 

[_CTAIRGUNNER_]

I think this is a little subjective. Never had a problem with any of my impulses but the heavily o ringed bolt assemblies of my dm4 and 5 needed a lot more attention. I will say in stock form the dms had better triggers and were easier to shoot fast. My impulse ended up getting a WAS board and an I frame.

Being from New England and playing all year, I never saw any issues with my dye products (always kept them lubed), I did however have an ion and 2 shockers once the cold weather came, both were short lived as they both gave me headaches. I considered smart parts the mcdonalds of paintball markers, not in terms of quality but the fact that they were so easily attainable and everywhere, they produced so many markers that were out on the fields, the ions and shockers were statistically cheaper than the other manufacturers counterparts new for new.

In fact my shockers were incredibly inefficient, I never owned a shocker passed 03/04 though...

 

[Cloudrider]

Being from New England and playing all year, I never saw any issues with my dye products (always kept them lubed), I did however have an ion and 2 shockers once the cold weather came, both were short lived as they both gave me headaches. I considered smart parts the mcdonalds of paintball markers, not in terms of quality but the fact that they were so easily attainable and everywhere, they produced so many markers that were out on the fields, the ions and shockers were statistically cheaper than the other manufacturers counterparts new for new.

In fact my shockers were incredibly inefficient, I never owned a shocker passed 03/04 though...

Lol, all spools are air pigs! The current rendition of the Luxe seems to be the only exception. After what 22 years of evolution...

 

[_CTAIRGUNNER_]

Lol, all spools are air pigs! The current rendition of the Luxe seems to be the only exception. After what 22 years of evolution...

With that said, how is the Epoch going to be different than they? Especially when needing more pressure to push the object at higher velocities than the 270 fps paintballs typically fly at?

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

View attachment 315307

OK so I was right,....they should not advertise "Made in the USA" then.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

Manny I have seen many a thread where you voiced your love for Chinese products. I don't think I've ever seen someone love Chinese products as you have loved them, lol.


As for the labeling, I believe there is actually standards for made vs assembled labels being used. Regulations were drafted back in the 1940s or 1950s. I believe to say Made in America you would have to have more than 50% parts sourced stateside. The Mrod has something like 60% of it's parts still made here, hence why they can have it Made in the USA instead of assembled in the USA. I would have to look for the labeling laws again but there is some logic to it that is not as convoluted as some think.


I'll post a link of it when I get to it.

Yeah I'm not a China basher, on the contrary I praise them for giving us a lot of PCP good support products that the poor people like me can afford to buy.

 

[Cloudrider]

With that said, how is the Epoch going to be different than they? Especially when needing more pressure to push the object at higher velocities than the 270 fps paintballs typically fly at?

Yep, that's the question. Can't wait to find out!

 

[Seeker]

Well, Taiwan is not really China. Taiwan is higher in the hierarchy.

I guess you know Sekhmet pressure gauges. The manufacturer was asked about the availability and the reply was they were waiting for the parts from China.