Slugs & Molds - Designing, Making and Testing

Over the past few weeks I've been tinkering with the simulation and I've learned some tricks to make the sims run faster and more accurately.

The results from subsonic tests seem to be well within reason, and the transonic range is not too shabby either. Supersonic is dubious. The "JBM" curves are the Cd charts from jbmballistics.com

20240830_074945.jpg

20240830_075008.jpg


I have been running a bunch of different sims to test and compare different combinations of ogives and boattails. Had some pretty enlightening results about what causes drag and what reduces it... lots of ideas for new boolits. That said, I have yet to take stability into account.

This software is not at all specific to ballistics so pretty much all of the relevant data has to be manually reduced in a spreadsheet. Not a big deal for drag coefficient but... exploring more detail on stability may be too tedious for my level of patience and motivation...
 
I've been thinking about internal ballistics of my various air rifles for a while now and have had some ideas and some revelations. Some of it seems within my capabilities to improve... or at least test and experiment.

One of those things is how the leade interacts with the projectile. At the very rear end of the barrel, for several of my air rifles, there is a straight section that has been machined larger than the bore and the projectile that I'll call the freebore. Seems this is there solely to allow the bolt to close easily, with no additional force required to seat the projectile into the rifling. All of my rifles that have this feature have it machined quite a bit larger (.003-.010") than the projectile diameter. This allows for the projectile to tilt, move out of bore centerline, and also to move back and forth. I can't think of any reason at all that this diameter should be more than slightly under the groove diameter of the rifling, since this would eliminate all of the movements I've mentioned. I have implemented this change on my most recent barrel. If the projectile is the exact same diameter as the grooves, and the freebore is .001" smaller than the bore, very little extra force on the bolt is required, but all movement and most misalignment is stopped.

Next in the barrel after the freebore is the forcing cone. I read that (I think it was jeff siewert's book "ammunition demystified") that the forcing cone angle can have and effect on both on engraving force and, maybe more importantly, engraving force consistency. The data suggested that a forcing cone angle of less than 1.5deg has the highest force requirement, but also the greatest consistency. This may make a measurable improvememt in velocity ES and SD. I have incorporated a 1deg cone into my most recent barrel.

That said, one of my rifles bypasses the engraving force issue entirely by forcing the projectile into the rifling with the bolt probe. This sounds like a better solution, but wasn't practical to implement on the current project. This may also have it's own set of drawbacks in deforming the projectile. Not sure.

Sorry... no pictures of the barrel. Too hard to see inside, can't show the important details. More details on the rifle here: https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/hp-ss-max-357-project.1307714/


Now that the barrel has seen a few improvememts... time to think about the projectile. I have quite a variety to choose from in this .357 cailber, but none have been specifically designed for long range, high BC, and low dispersion. Those are the goals.

I've done a variety of experiments with my flow simulation software, and although it's not tailored to this kind of project, I've been able to find some strong correlations with real world data that lead me to believe it's giving moderately accurate data. With "moderately accurate" in mind, I set out to make a projectile specifically for this rifle, for this barrel, with this leade and these goals in mind. Through this testing I've found some general ideas about what causes more or less aerodynamic drag. Some of the big observations were:

1. A longer, more slender ogive reduces drag.

2. Sharp transitions often (but not always) cause more drag. Examples are big flat meplats, lube grooves, sharp flat bases.

3. A boat tail will likely reduce drag over a flat base. My testing shows longer is better for less drag, and increasing the angle will also reduce drag up to 12 degrees. That said, I just don't see anyone using a 1.5 caliber long, 12deg boat tail. It seems there are some very good reasons for this that I don't fully understand, so I've kept my boattail design within reason.

4. A longer projectile with a given nose and tail will have a higher BC.

If I were to maximize all of these factors the projectile would be so long it wouldn't fit in the rifle, and so heavy that velocities would be painfully slow. Among other problems. So compromises were made, and a balance was found.

There are a few other factors that were also taken into account. Engraving force was a significant concern. I did my best to minimize this by using a bore riding nose and a narrow driving band at or slightly under the barrel's groove diameter. The fit can be adjusted with a sizing die. I've been wondering... how short can I go with the driving band? At what point is it not longer enough to handle the torque applied by the rifling?

Another concern was inconsistency in the friction of the projectile riding the barrel. The bore riding nose provides very little friction, so variance here will be minimized. The driving band has the potential to cause some significant variance. I'm currently working with the idea that: keeping the driving band slightly smaller than the groove diameter will reduce the overall friction, and therefor minimize the effect of an inconsistency. This is compared to a projectile or driving band that is the same or over the groove diameter, which will have significantly more contact with the barrel.

Yet another factor.... bourelette (spelling?) length. In other words, how long is the section of the slug that is touching the rifling? I did my best to find a good combination of a long slender nose, a long bourelette length, and a moderately long boattail. My experience so far is that slugs with a short bourelette length show terrible dispersion... I think this is a very important factor that many airgun slugs are lacking. I get the feeling that this design may still be lacking.

Boolit lube is another part of this. Was previously using heavy silicone oil which definitely reduced leading in the barrel, but may not be the best lubrication. Currently trying dry moly D from a spray can.

After taking all of this into account, here is what I've got:
20240904_224520.jpg


Here's the mold:
20240904_205751.jpg


Here's the slug after being seated into the barrel qith the bolt, then pushed back out of the breech for examination. The rifling marks show where the projectile is sitting when it is ready to be fired. 0.001" engraving (per side) on the nose, and the driving band has just started to engage the forcing cone. This is exactly as intended:
20240904_210236.jpg


Haven't been able to simulate anything related to projectile stability.. other than a twist rate calculator. Because of this I have tried to stay within the boundaries of other designs that seem to work, and to avoid any design flaws mentioned here and elsewhere. Hopefully that's enough.

Anyway... will be testing this over the weekend. If I don't post groups then it's safe to assume all of this was for nothing. 😝 It's the journey, not the destination, right?
 
Nice work. I agree one of the most overlooked areas is the chamber/leade area. Manufacturers in air tend to go larger (similar to pb) to insure ease of loading but is detrimental to accuracy. Again, similar to powder burners, especially in semi autos. The biggest difference is that air guns have no standard to live by (saami for instance) and so tolerances are all over the place.

I use a knurling process (creating lube grooves) on smaller od slugs that allows the chamber to essentially ‘size’ the slug on loading. I have no idea what effect the knurl has on external ballistics has though.

Again, great and interesting work you have going on.

Dave
 
  • Like
Reactions: caliusoptimus
A couple of observations if I may. The boat tail angle and length appear to be pushing the limits somewhat for stability, particularly dynamic stability. As it is a larger calibre for a slug you are looking at, you may well get away with it. Do not get hung up on minimizing zero yaw drag, something I have seen some of the professional bullet makers do. They then wonder why their bullet has more drag in flight than the old blunter design. Your bullet will not fly at zero yaw, you need to minimize total drag, not just zero yaw drag. This brings us to dynamic stability, something none of the stability calculators will even look at. You may have problems as the boat tail will have a negative effect on the dynamic stability by having a relatively large Magnus moment. If there are problems, reduce the boat tail angle by a couple of degrees (down to around 6 degrees) and reduce the length to half a calibre. It will in theory increase your drag, but not enough in reality for you to notice. For large calibre shells, the minimum drag boat tail angle at subsonic speeds is around 8 degrees, it may well be less though for bullet calibres due to stability and Reynolds number reasons.
 
I prep my lead-in in a similar manner. I use a 1 degree taper per side. And I then use a taper sizer (push-in push-out) on the slugs. Leaving a tapered driving band that is about .001” smaller than the groove diameter at its largest (rear) measurement. The straight front is sized at bore diameter or barely over bore diameter, as a bore rider.

If it were me choosing a barrel for that slug, I would have gotten the TJ 1:16 twist barrel liner. You might still be good with the 1:20 twist airgun barrel, especially if you don’t push the velocity too high. If it’s unstable at 1000fps, try 950, and then 900, etc.

You could also “deck” the mold as that would reduce the boat tail length and overall bullet length. That would provide a higher stability factor as you get farther into the transonic range

I look forward to reading more on your progress and results.
 
A couple of observations if I may. The boat tail angle and length appear to be pushing the limits somewhat for stability, particularly dynamic stability. As it is a larger calibre for a slug you are looking at, you may well get away with it. Do not get hung up on minimizing zero yaw drag, something I have seen some of the professional bullet makers do. They then wonder why their bullet has more drag in flight than the old blunter design. Your bullet will not fly at zero yaw, you need to minimize total drag, not just zero yaw drag. This brings us to dynamic stability, something none of the stability calculators will even look at. You may have problems as the boat tail will have a negative effect on the dynamic stability by having a relatively large Magnus moment. If there are problems, reduce the boat tail angle by a couple of degrees (down to around 6 degrees) and reduce the length to half a calibre. It will in theory increase your drag, but not enough in reality for you to notice. For large calibre shells, the minimum drag boat tail angle at subsonic speeds is around 8 degrees, it may well be less though for bullet calibres due to stability and Reynolds number reasons.
You may anytime. Your input is appreciated, and I know your help has saved me from making at least a few mistakes so far.

I've done some non-zero yaw simulations on this design to find center of pressure. Haven't noticed anything strange, just a minor increase in drag. I have been very curious to know... what is a typical angle for the first max yaw on an air rifle? I'm half tempted to build a yaw card setup and find out.

You mentioned the .5cal 6-8degrees in a previous posts and I've been keeping it in mind. With the last slug I posted here I made two versions. One within that limit, and one with a 10deg angle. I was hoping to see some difference with those at the range but didn't. They both shot more precisely than any ammo I've ever tried in my rattler. Maybe the stars aligned on that day and it had nothing to do with the ammo... IDK. That result gave me some inspiration and I moved onto this project. The rifle I'm using for these is more consistent in several ways, so maybe I can witness these details having an effect.
 
I prep my lead-in in a similar manner. I use a 1 degree taper per side. And I then use a taper sizer (push-in push-out) on the slugs. Leaving a tapered driving band that is about .001” smaller than the groove diameter at its largest (rear) measurement. The straight front is sized at bore diameter or barely over bore diameter, as a bore rider.

If it were me choosing a barrel for that slug, I would have gotten the TJ 1:16 twist barrel liner. You might still be good with the 1:20 twist airgun barrel, especially if you don’t push the velocity too high. If it’s unstable at 1000fps, try 950, and then 900, etc.

You could also “deck” the mold as that would reduce the boat tail length and overall bullet length. That would provide a higher stability factor as you get farther into the transonic range

I look forward to reading more on your progress and results.

I was definitely tempted to go for the 1 in 16 option... but after thinking about it and running a few designs through the koble calculator I'll probably be safe with a 20 twist. Yet to be tested... hoping for >950fps... on the fringe of instability... only one way to know for sure. Plenty of blank molds on hand if I need to try again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scotchmo
I was definitely tempted to go for the 1 in 16 option... but after thinking about it and running a few designs through the koble calculator I'll probably be safe with a 20 twist. Yet to be tested... hoping for >950fps... on the fringe of instability... only one way to know for sure. Plenty of blank molds on hand if I need to try again.
Optimal (just enough) stabilization is ideal. But over-stabilized is better than under-stabilized, so I’ve tended toward a little faster twist rates. 1:14 for my .257 and .284 (7mm). And 1:10 for my latest .308 build. Stability has not been an issue with any of them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: caliusoptimus
For the ones with deep undercuts- 5 axis milling with a ball nose. Ones with shallow undercuts- 3 axis milling with a lollipop endmill.
I wonder would cutting custom molds work using a lathe? Just put the two halves of the mold block in a four jaw Chuck and use a drill to start the hole in a boring bar to finish off.
 
I wonder would cutting custom molds work using a lathe? Just put the two halves of the mold block in a four jaw Chuck and use a drill to start the hole in a boring bar to finish off.
That is the way I make my custom molds (swage dies too). My molds are held on a faceplate (custom). Only one side is clamped and the other side is clamped to the first. This allows me to pour a slug to measure before removing from setup. Before you ask, lol, this is setup on a mini-lathe that has a cnc saddle I made specifically for molds and dies. Therefore I can position the entire lathe to pour a slug.

The mold in post #12 was made with this method.

Dave
 
  • Like
Reactions: caliusoptimus
Looking at your photographs again, you appear to have a curve down to a smaller diameter immediately behind the nose maximum diameter. While this may give you the lowest zero yaw drag, when your slug is at a small angle of yaw, the point where the airflow will break away on the leeward side will wander around, which will give random variations in the aerodynamic stability coefficient, which in turn is bad for stability and the pellet behaviour. If you have a sharp corner with a rebate to reduce the slug body diameter, it will give a fixed position where the air will always break away at small angles, thus keeping much the same stability coefficient.

Just something which may help.
 
  • Like
Reactions: caliusoptimus
That is the way I make my custom molds (swage dies too). My molds are held on a faceplate (custom). Only one side is clamped and the other side is clamped to the first. This allows me to pour a slug to measure before removing from setup. Before you ask, lol, this is setup on a mini-lathe that has a cnc saddle I made specifically for molds and dies. Therefore I can position the entire lathe to pour a slug.

The mold in post #12 was made with this method.

Dave
Nice to know that can be done and someone successfully has done it. Seems straightforward enough for a single cavity mold but if you want to make a multicavity mold the cavities offset from the center line would cause imbalance while turning. It won't be a problem at low RPMs but at higher RPMs can severely shake or or worse. Cutting aluminum at low RPMs usually compromises the finish.