Snowpeak Snowpeak/Artermis P35 .177 FAC Thread

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bowopt

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Jun 14, 2020
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Centra java, Indonesia
I just bought a .177 Snowpeak P35. The trigger wasn't the best, but it can be adjusted, such as the length of the second stage and the toughness of the trigger pull. The cocking can be made smoother too by taking out the hammer and other related parts, sanded the rough edges, and lubed them.

The gun was accurate out of the box, shooting an average of 820-870 fps, depending on the pellet weights.
I'm waiting for a 12cc power plenum to help increase the speed for 16gr Zan shooting at about mid-700 fps if I recall correctly without the extra plenum at 15 meters, and it groups well, but I want to know how it performs with additional speed gain by installing the power plenum.

The regulator came in at 135-140 bar, measured by shooting pellets until the speed went down. So it's not exact.

I installed a picatinny rail on the stock and found that the gun is hard to shoot benchrest even with a bipod because it's too light. But I think it's a budget and fun gun to have for plinking offhand and close-distance ratting.

I found somewhere in the web that there is another way to push the gun by installing modified valve, and may be the spring and valve pin too. But I'm not sure what could be done in that area.

I think it would be good to form a thread exclusively about .177 SPA P35 to share experiences, especially on tuning, mods, problems, fixes and its applications (plinking, hunting, etc.).
 
I have P35s in 177, 22, and 25. The only one I have not changed the regulator on is the 22, it's the most accurate as-is. All I did was reduce the spring pressure on the first stage (to near zero), reduce the second stage a little with a longer sear screw and set the hammer spring more appropriately for the regulator setting (which seems to be about 135-140). I produced two groups at 25 yards when I was pellet testing initially that were the size of a single pellet hole. I've shot one 200 on the 30 yard challenge with it and several 199s.

But this is about 177s. My best 30 yard challenge score with it is a 197. The next to best is a 194. It likes Baracuda Match pellets a lot but seems to like the Baacuda FTs a bit better (they gave me the 197). So I think you can benchrest a P35 in 177. I make my own stocks for all my P35s and I added a short picatinny rail to all of them. Before that, I used a 33mm scope picatinny adapter with some tape in the adapter to make it fit the P35 airtube. I make my own stocks mainly to get the length of pull right for me (about 14.75 inches) and to get the hand grip larger and further from the trigger (so I can pull it with the last joint in my trigger finger). I include a picture of the 177 in it's stock. It is made of wood from old church pews. I had to laminate 3 pieces to get to the necessary thickness. I am pretty sure the stock doesn't help my scores, however. Some of my best were with the original plastic stock.

I've only tried 10 grain knockouts in my 177 and it shoots them TERRIBLY. Sprialed so bad out of the muzzle it broke a chronograph. So I am not messing with slugs. I do not doubt there is one it would shoot but my experience in all my P35s is that they can shoot slugs but I have not found a slug they like as well as their preferred pellet.

You need more power instead of less. I turned my regulator down in my 177 and shortened the hammer spring. I am currently shooting FTs at about 875 fps. My first shot after the gun has been sitting is about 865. I find that to be common on my P35s when I have the hammer spring 5% or so under the peak velocity for the regulator setting. My P35-25 was about 20 fps slower and I turned the hammer spring up a tiny bit. I ran out of hammer spring when I had the regulator of my P35-25 at 150 bar or a little more. I have it a little under 150 now, I think, shooting JSB 33.95 grain MKII pellets about 800 fps. So about 50 fpe. I have the south african power plenum on it. I think it is bigger than other aftermarket plenums for the P35. It makes the airtube longer. A little longer in shroud moderator would make the shroud match the resulting airtube length. I just put on a DonnyFL adapter for now.

P35-177 in mahogany stock.jpg
 
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Perle said:
well mine is the bullshark ( p35 in stoeger furniture) in .22

it does have the power plenum by previous owner and it came to me very accurate ... it sends the norma 17s @ 905

show us a pic of this p35 you speak of!
Click to expand...
@Perle it's dismantled now, waiting for the power plenum. I'll take a photo and share when I had assembled the gun. :)

BTW, what is norma 17s?

Is Bullshark a P35 in a different chassis? What do you use it mostly for?
 
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JimD said:
I have P35s in 177, 22, and 25. The only one I have not changed the regulator on is the 22, it's the most accurate as-is. All I did was reduce the spring pressure on the first stage (to near zero), reduce the second stage a little with a longer sear screw and set the hammer spring more appropriately for the regulator setting (which seems to be about 135-140). I produced two groups at 25 yards when I was pellet testing initially that were the size of a single pellet hole. I've shot one 200 on the 30 yard challenge with it and several 199s.

But this is about 177s. My best 30 yard challenge score with it is a 197. The next to best is a 194. It likes Baracuda Match pellets a lot but seems to like the Baacuda FTs a bit better (they gave me the 197). So I think you can benchrest a P35 in 177. I make my own stocks for all my P35s and I added a short picatinny rail to all of them. Before that, I used a 33mm scope picatinny adapter with some tape in the adapter to make it fit the P35 airtube. I make my own stocks mainly to get the length of pull right for me (about 14.75 inches) and to get the hand grip larger and further from the trigger (so I can pull it with the last joint in my trigger finger). I include a picture of the 177 in it's stock. It is made of wood from old church pews. I had to laminate 3 pieces to get to the necessary thickness. I am pretty sure the stock doesn't help my scores, however. Some of my best were with the original plastic stock.

I've only tried 10 grain knockouts in my 177 and it shoots them TERRIBLY. Sprialed so bad out of the muzzle it broke a chronograph. So I am not messing with slugs. I do not doubt there is one it would shoot but my experience in all my P35s is that they can shoot slugs but I have not found a slug they like as well as their preferred pellet.

You need more power instead of less. I turned my regulator down in my 177 and shortened the hammer spring. I am currently shooting FTs at about 875 fps. My first shot after the gun has been sitting is about 865. I find that to be common on my P35s when I have the hammer spring 5% or so under the peak velocity for the regulator setting. My P35-25 was about 20 fps slower and I turned the hammer spring up a tiny bit. I ran out of hammer spring when I had the regulator of my P35-25 at 150 bar or a little more. I have it a little under 150 now, I think, shooting JSB 33.95 grain MKII pellets about 800 fps. So about 50 fpe. I have the south african power plenum on it. I think it is bigger than other aftermarket plenums for the P35. It makes the airtube longer. A little longer in shroud moderator would make the shroud match the resulting airtube length. I just put on a DonnyFL adapter for now.

View attachment 464868
Click to expand...
@JamesD. You put a lot of work into the chassis! It must have taken you ages. But the results are astounding, you must have found the way to handle this light gun.

I'll give the Baracudas a try. Your results are excellent.

Speaking of results, I found for the target paper that I shot 15m out of the factory. And I realised that I made a mistake in my first post. The 16gr Zan slug was at 658 FPS!

I'm sharing my group shots with different pellets as a ref, but this was the first time that I was looking for the right pellet for the gun at 15m (roughly my shooting distance when ratting). And I probably pulled a lot of shots, since I wasn't (and still not entirely) used to handling of the gun

1. JSB KO 13gr @752

IMG-20240517-WA0006.jpg






2. Zan slug 13gr @745

IMG-20240517-WA0005.jpg




3. JSB KO 10gr @826

IMG-20240517-WA0007.jpg


4. Hades 10gr @868

The paper around the group was a bit shredded. I don't know why. Did the Hades spiralled?

IMG-20240517-WA0008.jpg



5. Zan Slug 16gr @658

I like the 'thump' sound of this slug hitting the target. It seemed to dump a lot of energy, which is why I want to install a power plenum to see if increasing the speed can stabilise it further.

IMG-20240517-WA0009.jpg


I found on the net a Artemis / Snowpeak P35 High Power Valve Kit

P15-Valve-Kit.jpg


Has anyone tried this? I'm not technically savvy, I don't really understand what it does and how much more power it can produce.

IMG-20240517-WA0006.jpg


IMG-20240517-WA0007.jpg
 
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The bullshark was made by SPA, the manufacturer of the P35, but there are a few differences. The Bullshark has a 490mm barrel, the P35 has a 450mm barrel. The keep the gun the same length the Bullshark has a different baffle design in the shroud which seems to be very effective. I shot a 22 and it seemed to be about the same as my P35. The other difference is the stock. The Bullshark has a larger stock with different pieces you can install to customize it for you. It weighs a pound more than the P35 stock. But the basic design is the same. I put a Bullshark action into one of my old P35 plastic stocks. Fits fine. The Bullshark shroud also comes with a fitting for an aftermarket moderator, the P35 does not (DonnyFL offers one I have on my P35-25).

I think the first adjustment all owners of these guns should make is to the first stage trigger weight. If you remove the action from the stock (two screws, longer ones on the Bullshark but the same thread size) you will see a long rod that transfers you pulling the trigger back to where the sear is. Along that rod is a spring that looks like what you would find in a ballpoint pen. There is a collar on one end with a set screw you can loosen to relax the spring. You may not want to go to zero but I would reduce the pressure of this spring. It provides the resistance in the first stage and also adds resistance to the second stage. Just relaxing that spring will get you down close to a 1 lb trigger. The sear screw is on the trigger block, it has a lock nut. I adjust that too but, unlike the first stage spring, there is risk in messing with the sear. If you make it too light the gun can go off on it's own. So you might not want to do it but the first stage spring is a no brainer to me. No risk of allowing the gun to fire if bumped or something.

Another recommend modification is to replace the baffles in the shroud with an in shroud printed moderator. It won't be a lot quieter, possibly not any quieter but the shroud is held in position by one grub screw and moves sometimes. When it moves forward, it can allow the baffles to rotate into the pellet path and be damaged. That is not reasonably possible with an in shroud moderator. You can put a moderator on the outside but I think printed ones are fragile to be used on the outside. Inside the shroud they are protested and work great. There are other members of this forum that printed my moderators for me. Cost was very low and quality was high.

I'd have to examine that power package of modifications and/or install them to know what they will do. Making the valve smaller in diameter can increase airflow adding power. But is the valve smaller in diameter? Maybe. The brass piece would replace an existing piece that is either aluminum or stainless steel. It may also support higher airflow. The spring may be more powerful but I can't really tell from the picture. That could support a higher regulator pressure. I don't think the stock spring will support a regulator above about 150 bar. Maybe that spring will. I would not think a 177 needs a regulator pressure above 145-150 the maximum the stock spring can support. Another low cost thing that will add a little velocity is to drill out the barrel port and the passage from where the valve is to the barrel port (the transfer port but it is pretty long in a P35). I did that in my P35-25 taking it from about 75% of bore diameter to about 85%. Bigger than 85% is not recommended, you do not want a pellet falling into the port. I got a little more velocity drilling out the ports but the biggest gain was from the power plenum. On my P35-25 it either made the gun more accurate or added enough velocity I was willing to switch to 34 grain JSB pellets which are more accurate in my gun. I tried them initially and found them accurate but velocity was so low I decided to use lighter ones. It shoots them about 800 fps now making it a pretty stout little P35 (about 50 fpe).
 
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@JimD Thank you for the very detailed information on how to mod the airgun and detailing the pros and cons. I'm no longer thinking about buying the High Power Valve set. It's too expensive for just a few FPS bump that you predicted. And I'm not brave enough to enlarge the port myself. I'm really good at taking stuff apart and playing with it, but I'm really bad at putting it back together. :(

I've modded the shroud following Aaron's YouTube video instructions. I must say that I like this guy. He's different from most airgun YouTubers in the sense that he cares about budget and is very detailed, patient and sensible. I hope he is well and updates his channel soon.

I received the power plenum last Friday, it's about 12 cc in volume, which I think should be sufficient for this tiny gun. It didn't come with the needed O-rings, so I had to do some shopping for them. After I got them, I installed the power plenum, and when I screwed in the air cylinder back and filled it up with air, it leaked from the barrel. I couldn't figure out why. So I sent it to an airgun smith that I know well. He told me that I had installed the valve spring upside down, which marred the valve pin and bent the spring out of shape. Damn... Just when I thought that I could handle this simple gun. I messed it up on the first try.

I looked online and couldn't find anyone selling the valve pin and the spring. Luckily, the airgun smith could make them for me. Now I just have to wait.

It's a fun gun out of the box. This habit of mine, tinkering could cost more than the gun itself!

So, @Perle, Sorry, you'd have to wait a bit longer for the pic until the P35 is out from the ICU. :)
 
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It can't. There is a very simple one way valve on the big nut where the fill port and gauge are. It is on the inside. It is just a screw with an O-ring on it. The screw has a larger diameter to limit how much you can tighten it. If you put the wrong O-ring on it or too much silicone grease or something, that might stop you from filling. I'm assuming that he is saying the air does not go in, not that it leaks back out. If you do not cock the gun it is typical for the air to leak from the hammer pushing on the valve.
 
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Hi @Jim D Thank you so much for the insight. I called back the airgun smith and he explained that air does pass thru the regulator but the rate of inflow is very slow. He removed the reg from the air tube and filled it with air, and nothing leaked. That's why he came to the conclusion that the reg is the problem. Unfortunately, he seems to be at lost with what to do with the reg...

Do you have any more tips to help us out?

Thanks.
 
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Hi @Loff, Yes! I read your thread and was impressed by your technical information. I made this thread to keep the discussion specifically to SPA P35 .177, which I just bought and ruined, as you can see from my posts.

I have a question for you. You mentioned in your thread that you gained significant gain of FPS:

Comparison in speeds between out of the box and after fiddling with the gun.
Out of the box:
1. JSB Hades .177, 10.34gr - 11 shot average 889fps
2. JSB KO slugs .177, 10.03gr - 11 shot average 881fps

After fiddling:
1. JSB Hades .177, 10.34gr - 11 shot average 971fps - gain in speed 82fps
2. JSB KO slugs .177, 10.03gr - 11 shot average 949fps - gain in speed 68fps

If I understand correctly, there is no power plenum addition just by deburring the crown, polishing the hammer, and opening the TP. I'm impressed!

I left my TP as it came from the factory, modified the shroud to quieten it a bit, and polished the hammer, the hammer weight and the spring. I didn't find any FPS increase, but the cocking was smoother after polishing. I checked the crown, and it seems to be fine, with no rough, sharp edges. It seems that the only difference is the enlarged TP, which gained you about 60 to 80 fps. That's impressive!

I read in this thread that enlarging the TP would just produce about 10 fps more, while adding a power plenum did the most, increasing the fps to about 40-50 fps.

Could you please share your insights here? I'm sure everyone is dying to know more.

Also, any insight about the trouble with my regulator which I posted earlier and pasting below:

Hi @Jim D Thank you so much for the insight. I called back the airgun smith and he explained that air does pass thru the regulator but the rate of inflow is very slow. He removed the reg from the air tube and filled it with air, and nothing leaked. That's why he came to the conclusion that the reg is the problem. Unfortunately, he seems to be at lost with what to do with the reg...

Do you have any more tips to help us out?

Thanks.
 
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If removing the regulator helped the gun fill it must have been leaking. The regulator cannot prevent air from going into the air tube but it can leak it out. The seal on the adjuster failing causes the regulator to just pass air through. The gun doesn't leak but it has a low velocity at full fill pressure that gradually rises and falls - it acts just like an unregulated gun. I've experienced that on a different gun. I think if the O rings on the outside of the regulator leaked it could cause an air leak. Normally the air would still not come out past the valve. But there is also a path to let the washer/springs of the regulator get to atmospheric pressure between shots. I think air coming past an O-ring could let it get to the vent in the side of the air tube. That is a small hole back in the regulator area. If that is where the air is going you should be able to feel it coming out that hole. I'm not sure how he reassembled the gun without the regulator but this might be something to look into. If that is the path, it should just be a matter of replacing an O-ring or two - I think there are two.
 
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