So many questions about tanks....

[CWhitmarsh]

Greetings, I apologize if a similar thread exists but I didn't find any when I searched.

I am new to air rifles, but have a moderate amount of experience with firearms. My father and I have collected and shot firearms for many many years. Recently we learned about air rifles and purchased a Texan SS (.45) and a Benjamin Armada (.25). We're planning on ordering the Umarex Hammer whenever it becomes available.

It was apparent from the beginning that we were going to need air tanks to facilitate all of the shooting we like to do, so we got a compressor from Airgun Depot and a 3000 psi scuba tank from a local dive shop. Since this tank is 3000 psi (good enough for the Texan and the Armada) and the Hammer has a 4500 psi tank, we have been looking for a 4500 psi tank. I've looked around and it seems like the larger ones from AD and other online vendors are about twice the price of what you can find elsewhere.

Does anyone have any insight or information on this? I have found an 86 cu ft 4500 psi tank for about $370 and a jubilee valve is typically $130-ish (if I'm remembering that correctly); so why would do they retail for $700 or more from the air gun retail sites? Is there something I'm missing?

This is a very addictive hobby and I've loved learning all that I have but I just can't seem to discover the answers I'm looking on this topic anywhere else.

Thanks in advance for any input or guidance.

Chris

 

[bdzjlz]

Save your money and watch for a sale on an Omega or Air Venturi tank. A couple of times a year you can find them for +/- $550. Well worth the price and carbon fiber over the long term is the only way to go if you want to have any mobility at all. I have both and wish I had bought the 4500 lbs psi carbon fiber earlier and let the steel tank go by the wayside.



Good luck.

 

[CWhitmarsh]

Thanks for the info bdzjlz! Out of curiosity, what size tank did you end up getting?

Chris

 

[18.13]

You might go this route

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drager-4500psi-SCBA-TANK-dated-10-02-unused-scuba-fireman-rescue-air/254052118583?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160323102634%26meid%3D43fc150495ea44b398a934e508278cab%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D372424787006%26itm%3D254052118583&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

 

[douger]

if you have a compressor look on ebay for a scba tank 30 to 45 min then get the fill hook up buy the knew one 

 

[John "spysir" Blount]

Jump back on search and type " scba " that got me 37 pages of posts ( you'll want to restrict your search to " airtanks,pumps & compressors).

As you have a compressor you could go with the LOW cost "acecare" tanks from china with the " ce " cert. - just type acecare in search.

I use a 45min scba and fill with the altros booster but IF away from your compressor as you own BIG bores you will want the larger tank IMO.



John

 

[CWhitmarsh]

Thanks for all the input. I will see what a google/ebay search for SCBA tanks pulls up. I'll also have to educate myself as to how the minutes translate into tank size.

I was looking at this one. Any thoughts?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Airgun-86-cu-ft-Scuba-GB-300bar-Paintball-Tank-Carbon-Fiber-Cylinder-Mfr-2018/173317485599?hash=item285a86f41f:g:2PYAAOSwSKtaaARm:rk:1f:1

 

[Tominco]

30 min = 45 cu ft.

45 min = 66 cu ft

60 min = 88 cu ft

Chris, When buying a CF tank, you want to pay attention to the date of manufacture and pressure rating. Most CF tanks are rated to 4500 but there are some rated less, such as 3000 & 2216. There's also newer ones rated to 5500 psi. But I'd stay away from those for the time being, unless you have a way to fill to that high of a pressure. I don't think you'd see much benefit out of them anyway. 

SCBA = Self Contained Breathing Apparatus

SCUBA = Self Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus. 

The two are similar in many ways. But, one of their main differences is an important one, the valve threads. On an SCBA, you're dealing with CGA-347. On SCUBA you're dealing with "DIN," if Im not mistaken. It's important to know what you've got if you have to buy a separate fill hose setup. 

It's nice if you can get into a bottle system with a fill setup included. That takes all the thinking out of it. 

Another thing to look for in your fill setup is what's called "shoestring" high pressure hose. It's thin, safe, and very flexible. 1/4" hose is large, stiff, and safe as well. It's just a harder to work with. The shoestring hose will help you conserve air every time you fill. Approximately 12" of shoestring holds the same amount of air as 1" of 1/4" line! You can imagine the difference when you're comparing how much air bleeds out of 2-3' of hose. 

I personally have both an Omega and an SCBA. They're both 66cf size tanks. I find that size works really well for me. Not too big and not too small. I can't say that one has a significant advantage over the other. They both have their strong points.

Welcome to your next addiction! Good luck with your tank search!

Tom

 

[CWhitmarsh]

Wow Tom, that was a plethora of information; thank you so much for the detailed response. I had not idea about the thread differences between SCBA and SCUBA.

We purchased the Air Venturi 4500 psi electric compressor from AD so we can fill to 4500. When we buy the Hammer (soon hopefully) we will be able to fill the gun directly from the compressor, but that isn't optimal obviously. In your opinion, is it worth it just to buy one of the bottles from one of the many online air rifle vendors, or continue to search for the tank separately and build it ourselves. I'd like to save some money if possible, but I don't want to skimp out on having safe quality equipment.

Again, thank you for so much info. 

Chris

 

[Tominco]

Just buy it from one of the vendors. You may end up spending a little more but, you'll have a complete set up, ready to go, and done. No messing around with fittings, leaks, hoses, etc. No scratching your head wondering if the inexpensive fill system from china is really rated to the right psi. And, In the rare case that something isn't right with the system, you'll also have them as a resource to make it right. 

If money is very tight then, yes, you'll be able to save yourself money by buying a used system (reminder! date of manufacture), or by finding the bottle and fill system separately. Just don't shop too cheap. You're dealing with high pressure air here. If something fails, it can cause very serious, life changing, injury.

Big bores, like the Hammer, use up a lot of air with each shot so, I'd recommend the larger 88cf or 66cf tanks. 



Here's some links from some of my past posts on bottles and such...

Refurbished SCBA cylinders here. Maybe not the best deal in town but, it's a reliable & certified source.

Here's what happens during a "hydro" test.

Want to see what's inside an SCBA bottle? 

Know your fitting... For safety's sake!

A pro tip... What to do with that pesky fill whip?

Those should help answer some questions you might have and might cause you to have even more questions! LOL!

That took some time to find all those so, I sure hope you enjoy them! 

Tom

 

[Dansker]

@Tominco
GREAT information about tanks and hardware, this is super helpful.

I see the tanks and the regulator hardware... but how do I stuff the air back in the box? (bottle)

Is that literally a matter of plugging the charge connector to the compressor and opening the valves filling backwards through the regulator?



Bo

 

[Tominco]

DO NOT push air through a regulator in the reverse direction. As far as I've ever known, they are one way only. Other than that, yes. Attach your compressor line to your bottle, start your compressor, then slowly open your bottle. If you open your bottle and then start your compressor, you'll be starting it under pressure which is much harder on the equipment and actually may be too much to allow the compressor to start pumping. If you have a regulator in line, you'll need to remove it from the fill setup. 

I have two different regulators for tethering. One is very large and screws onto the SCBA. The other is much smaller an screws into my Omega bottle. They either come with the same male and female threads on either side or, I made them that way myself. This way it's quick and easy to remove them for filing and then re-install them for use again.

Tom

And... Thanks for the +'s!! I guess you guys really liked that post! LOL! 

 

[CWhitmarsh]

Thanks again Tom! Incredibly useful advice. I was contacted through PM by another user selling a 74 cu ft Omega bottle. We will be purchasing that one. I'm sure it won't be the only tank we purchase, but it will certainly work for now.

FYI - I just stumbled across your You Tube channel last night and started watching some videos.... Now I have to go clean some barrels

Chris

 

[CWhitmarsh]

I've got a follow up question from this Tom. I watched a video last night posted by Airguns of Arizona regarding the HP3 valve and they said you just hook up the foster quick connect on the valve to your compressor to refill the tank. I may be misunderstanding what you're saying about not pushing air backwards through a regulator. Either way just want to make sure we're not doing something wrong.

Thanks as always, Chris

 

[Bob_O]

CW,

The Omega 74 cu.ft. tank I have has the HP3 valve with no regulator. It fills and gets filled through the foster fitting.

I have watched it getting filled at a 6,000psi station, and they just open the valve after it's connected and the machine does the rest.

I have done two 12-minute fills on the tank using my Nomad II compressor, just to get some time on the compressor in it's first 30 days.

The procedure there is to start the compressor with the valve closed and watch the gauge as it fills the hose to the tank....it will build pressure quickly due to low volume in the hose.

Once the gauge on the compressor gets around 3,000 psi, slowly open the valve while watching the gauge on the tank and compressor. Try to match the pressure in the tank to the pressure in the hose by "throttling" the valve.

At some point fairly quickly the gauges will equalize and the valve will be wide open. At that point you just keep the valve open until the compressor stops at whatever you set the auto-shutoff to.

At that point you just close the valve on the tank and bleed the hose before disconnecting.

Hope this helps.

 

[CWhitmarsh]

Thanks Bob. That's what we did with our 3000 psi steel tank. I think my confusion stems from my ignorance. I'm still learning which parts are which. Suffice to say I now know that valve and regulator are not interchangeable words.



Thanks again Bob and Tom for the education.

 

[Bob_O]

No problem buddy!

 

[cj_86]

I just purchased a 45 minute SCBA tank on eBay and my set up cost $261.88 then add another $34.22 for the moisture trap and I was just shy of $300. The scba on that listing is a 2008 ,but it is brand new and I was going to fill at home anyways on my HP compressor. The fill station is actually very well made and I took it all apart and inspected the internals, machine work, and threads. if you do happen to disassemble make sure to reapply thread sealant and I prefer using Loctite 545.

 

[Humdinger]

CG86, it is counter productive to put Locktite or any type of thread sealant on an SCBA tank. The tank air seals on its O-ring. A tank with pressure inside can't loosen so Locktite just makes the valve much harder to remove for inspection. A tank without sealant is difficult to loosen. Silcone grease should be used to make it easier to loosen Even if you own your own compressor it is important to visually inspect the inside of the tank every few years for any signs of moisture damage. Locktite makes valve removal nearly impossible.

 

[cj_86]

I apologize and should of been more clear on where the thread sealant (Loctite 545) was applied. Sealant was only applied at these areas circled in red which is 1/8" and 1/4" NPT pipe fittings which will require a thread sealant(TFE Paste, Teflon Tape, Loctite 545) to properly seal and any fitting that has a o-ring, only 100% silicone grease is applied. At work when assembling pneumatic fittings, I tend to grab Loctite 545 often for fittings 3/8" NPT and smaller because it is easier to apply and cleaner than using a TFE paste or teflon tape. The fill station came assembled with thread sealant out of the package and I am not implying that it is necessary to take it apart when it is received. I am just the kind of person that needs to take things apart to inspect and re-assemble using my own products that I trust in. 

Regards,

CJ

Link on info of Loctite 545:

https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-492145-Pneumatic-Hydraulic-36-milliliter/dp/B003XZB54O/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1548894768&sr=8-3&keywords=loctite+545