Sorry ZAN, but I'm not feeling it

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ZAN said:
Maybe a few words about slugs.

We did some changes in packing which was the biggest "issue" over time and also some changes on the finish of the slugs. From first to last they were all made from same material, but finish and packing very much interfere with how they look after some time in storage.

Now with sticker sealed plastic trays slugs should be smooth and shiny.How they look does not affect the accuracy.

We learn and improve things like all do.

Our lead is not even close to NSA or H&N one, we use way more softer, more to AVS but it is hard to compare hand or machine processing.
It is super easy to get perfect looking slug out of hand press but pain in the as from the machine.

In process of learning how to walk you need to "fall", this is how all world is working. Some admit it and others say they dont even if they have bloody knee when saying that.

Wish you a great weekend guys 😃
Žan
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Sorry, nism vidu da si že odpisal... But wasn't there also a problem with some bad lead that was delivered to you?
 
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Triglav said:
Žan is familiar with the issue, but says that there's nothing that can be done about the lead delivered to him.
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What? He can verify lead composition and if it is bad then he can try to find a different source. It is not a problem to get lead with certificate of its purity in Europe. If I got some bad lead then I would stop production and wait for the proper lead. Making slugs from poor lead is not the right way to go. To sell just to sell? Not in my dictionary.
 
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I've had really good luck with Zan slugs in my .177 cal guns. I would say they have been the most accurate and NSA a close second. In my opinion they have much softer lead then the rest. There expansion is also better than any other slug I've tested. I've run ZAN, NSA, JSB, Howlers and H&N and the Zan seem to dump energy and expand better than the rest. I haven't done much slug shooting in the larger calibers but this is what Ive found in the .177 size. The hardest ones seem to be the Howlers. Great slugs and also accurate but likes to pass through things!
 
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Completely different experience with Zan's. Thanks Zan, I am feeling it. The 28gr .25 Zan slug is the ticket for my 23" LW barrel on my P15. I always try NSA first, but they didn't do well at all this time. These threads might be interesting reading but are usually pointless. Every barrel is different enough that very few similarities exist between what slug does definitively better in any combo of gun, barrel, speed, or caliber. It's the wild west out there for slugs, you just have to try them until you find one that works for you. Or don't use them at all and stick to pellets. There are a few pellets out there that do well in most guns (JSB .22 18gr) but nothing like that for slugs, ...yet. I don't know if Zan is having problems getting good lead, or not, but mine seem fine. As for quality control, who knows? I read on these threads almost every day and in the past couple of years, since COVID started really, there have been plenty of complaints to go around, about, and from, everybody. Even pellets from JSB have been getting complaints on these pages lately. Ironically, Crosman pellets, well at least the 14.3gr .22 variety, have had a resurgence in popularity lately and they were getting trashed around here a few years ago. I remember because I always liked them. If Zan's don't work well in your gun, and you don't like their coatings, don't use them. If Zan is having problems with supply or qc then they are not alone, everyone is. I will continue to use Zan because they work well for me. Good luck everybody, because your experience will be different.
 
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PumaCarl said:
Every barrel is different
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True, but FX liners are extremely different from one to another. How difficult can it be to perform air gauging to verify the bore uniformity? Shilen performs air gauging to qualify the barrels:


I think that the airgun manufacturer should sell the gun with selected slugs. If the barrels are repeatable and air gauged then there is no way the same slug will not work among them given the valving is the same.

The gun worth above 2k$ has a barrel worth 150$.
 
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Here is an example of the expansion of the Zans. Three cans, Disclaimer " No beer wasted during testing"! 😁 All cans filled with water. Shot from my Rti Prophet 2 at 50 yards. All shot within 20 fps of each other around 980fps. Zan 16gr, H&N 16gr and NSA 15gr. I bet you can guess which one the Zan is!!! The damage they do and the sound they make when the hit always bring a smile to my face.

View attachment 20230416_162717.jpg
 
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So you folks had me curious. I am home with bronchitis and so I did a quick experiment with Zan 10 grain and Zan 13 grain .177" slugs in my TX200 MK III. It has not historically shot the 13 grains well, but has done nicely with the 10 grains. It is a stock USA version rifle that has been cleaned with new breech seals. It has about 7000-10000 pellets through it.

As of today it was shooting one lot of Norma 8.4's at 858 with another lot at 836. AA 10.3 (4.52) straight from the can at 728.5 with waxed and sorted to 10.4 at 735. AA 8,4 (4.52) straight from the can with one run of 10 at 814 and another at 821 (I moved the chronograph). These are all diabolo style. Typical SD is 3.5 to 4.5 for these.

As slugs are not diabolo based stabilization the twist and speed (FPS) per caliber is foundational to stabilization. Yes, there are some other things that play a role, but this gets us in the game. The optimum projectile length for a gun with a 1 in 12 right hand twist in .177 caliber is .2418" if firing at at 700 fps. The Zan 10 grain is 0.205" and the 13 grain is 0.2435'. The minimum stabilization of a projectile that length in a 1 in 12 right hand twist barrel is 503.32 fps for the 10 grain and 710.12 with the 13 grain.

Slugs fit tighter, and in the case of my TX200, MUST be pressed firmly into the chamber to seat them properly. The 10 grains, on average, shot about 721 fps with the 13 grains being at about 557 fps. So for me I get a sense of the consistency and function of each and why the Zan 10 grain work for me but the 13 grain do not.

1681774110989.png


I use the slugs to shoot at 100 yards with the TX for giggles and because it is a challenge. The Zan 10 grain slugs are more consistent for me than the diabolo style pellets. I have a couple videos but here is one.

In the video the groups ranged from 2.31" to 4.10" (6 shots). The average was 3.29 inches. I do not see a lot of posts with 3 inch or smaller groups from springers at 100 yards so I am pretty satisfied.

Groups:
2.31"
2.82"
2.96"
3.13"
3.45"
3.82"
3.83"
4.10"

 
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Seeker said:
True, but FX liners are extremely different from one to another. How difficult can it be to perform air gauging to verify the bore uniformity? Shilen performs air gauging to qualify the barrels:


I think that the airgun manufacturer should sell the gun with selected slugs. If the barrels are repeatable and air gauged then there is no way the same slug will not work among them given the valving is the same.

The gun worth above 2k$ has a barrel worth 150$.
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Seeker said:
What? He can verify lead composition and if it is bad then he can try to find a different source. It is not a problem to get lead with certificate of its purity in Europe. If I got some bad lead then I would stop production and wait for the proper lead. Making slugs from poor lead is not the right way to go. To sell just to sell? Not in my dictionary.
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I'd like to apologize for any confusion I may have caused, but myself and a friend of mine, a fellow airgunner, both started experiencing accuracy problems with our airguns, out of which we shoot slugs, with just about any of the pellets or slug we tried, not just zans. The problem was in the fact, that we didn't clean our barrels - so folks, clean your damn barrels! initially I thought that this accuracy issue had something to do with the internals of my gun, but went away after I cleaned my barrel, and then I asked my friend if he ever cleans his barrel, and the answer was a: 'no, I don't, I don't have to'. So then, I explained to him, that he has to clean his barrel every once in a while, and then the accuracy problems went away with him as well. So once again folks, clean your barrels, if you're shooting a whole lotta' lot. The slugs however, were fine, there was nothing wrong with them.

Now, about the costs of barrels, I have heard, but I'm not exactly sure whether it's true or not, that some olympic shooters have PCP airguns with barrels that cost from 650 to 3000 (this sounds exaggerated to me) euros... that's why I'm a bit skeptical about guns over 2k$ having only 150$ barrels.
 
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Seeker said:
I clean my FX straw every 45 slugs.
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Every 45 slugs? I havent cleaned my liner and shot over 1000 slugs with it, accuracy is still there.

If I would have to clean my barrel afther 45 shots with slugs, I spend more time cleaning the barrel then actually shooting.

Back to the thread, I have good succes with the Zan 23 grain slugs once my wildcat was tuned properly. The only slug that outperforms any slugbrand I have tested for accuracy(Zan,H&N, Javelin, JSB Knockout,FX Hybrid, NSA) is H&N but the expansion is lower.
 
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