Sorting by weight (.22/25.4gr Monster RDs)

[Centercut]

Cole, agree, certainly not happy about MANDATORY sorting when using the RDMs in competition. Perhaps with a slow twist barrel like the Prophet LR this wouldn’t happen? Who knows? I do know that the entire time I shot a .30 with a very slow twist barrel in competition, I NEVER got a flyer, and all I did was visually inspect as I loaded the magazines. That’s at least 10,000 rounds. 

 

[Franklink]

This little experiment has caused me to settle into the opinion that certain pellets NEED sorted, and others don't. If you've got a gun showing promise of impressive accuracy but having random flyers, might be worth experimenting to see if it will help. 

As originally stated, this whole weighing pellets thing is an "aggregation of marginal gains" concept. Does shooting weigh sorted pellets make even a marginal difference from a certain gun? If yes, than there is benefit to the process. Add sorted pellets to: clean barrels, correct lube, smallish extreme spreads, quality scopes, solid rests, good triggers, practice, etc etc etc. and it all totals out to better overall accuracy/precision. Watch Tomcat's vid on how he just won EBR, with this idea of aggregation of marginal gains in mind, and you'll see all the small things he did that added up to giving him just enough of a difference to be the winner. 

Google Dave Brailsford and look into the history of British cycling for an additional example of the, small improvements aggregated together can be the difference between winning and losing, idea. I'm not a bicycle guy, but it's interesting in the context of competing in a sport where the equipment plays such a large role (airgunning, or competitive bicycling). 

 

[Franklink]

Just spent a few hrs sorting 3 tins of .22 MRDs and thought I'd come back to this for a follow up post and another data point. 

3 tins of the JSB branded MRDs = 600 pellets. 

Visual inspection first. Anything with a dented head, noticeable parting line, or non concentric skirt didn't even get weighed. Also, anything with a dent, divot, or parting line down around the area the pellet head will contact rifling got put into an absolute cull pile. All the pellets with perfect heads and concentric skirts got weighed. 

Last time I sorted down to the tenth but couldn't see a noticeable difference in impact points between 25.3 and 25.5 so this time I sorted the primo stuff into one pile: 25.3, 25.4, and 25.5 grains. 

All said and done I got:

• one good tin of 25.3, 25.4, 25.5 grain pellets with no visible defects. 
• About half a tin of absolute culls described above + anything weighing 25.2grains or less + anything weighing 25.6grains or more.
• And 1.5tins of non round skirts and/or heads with defects in the peak of the dome. 

So, roughly 1 in 3 passed inspection. Disgusting. 

The plan for the absolute culls is to just shoot em as-is as practice pellets. 

The plan for the 1.5tins of kinda rejects is to run them through the TR Robb sizer, but not to size them. I adjusted the pellet stop to the point that the head is not being resized but, with enough pressure from the pellet pusher, a meplat is applied to the head of the pellet. And the skirt is reshaped to be round, all in the same "sizing." I tested the process on a couple and the visual results seem to be worth the effort. Bob Sterne made mention over on GTA recently that there's been some compelling evidence to suggest that a meplat can increase a pellet's BC. So I kinda want to test that theory. 

As for the rest of the pellets I shoot, nothing has changed since I last posted in this topic. The ONLY pellet I sort are the .22 MRDs, and I hate every second of it and self-loath when I'm done (for all the time I could have been doing something enjoyable). In fact, I was shooting some of the .20 Heavies and the .22 MRDs out to @146 yards 4 or 5 days ago. Both were straight from the tin, absolutely zero prep/sorting (sorting is so miserable that I don't typically practice or plink with sorted pellets) and I think the .20s were doing a bit better. The MRDs weren't generally getting pushed quite as far, but they had more "what-the-hells?!?!" than the .20 Heavies. 

When shooting at long range in the wind the .22 MRDs potential is quite obvious, but lack of consistency is making it a hard pellet to love. Sorting seems to reduce to incidence of the MRDs "what- the-hells?!?!" but they still happen too much. 

 

[Dairyboy]

I would hate that! I was gonna use them for pesting in windy conditions but my Uragan is not a fan. My Vulcan 3 was stupid accurate with them though. At 70yds in wind they didn't hold up at all and had a wild flier. Seeing this in my gun, hard to beat a lighter weight yet consistent pellet in the wind regardless of the BC loss. Yeah not a competition shooter but I don't like having fliers when pesting either. 

 

[Aimright]

Dang Cole, that 1 good tin out of 3 turns out to be some very expensive pellets especially if you factor the sorting labor! You might want to keep those under lock and key at the xft match! It would be interesting to know if the relabeled versions in the FX or Daystate brands are any better. By the way, where do you usually keep your sorted pellets while at a match….asking for a friend.

 

[Franklink]

Dang Cole, that 1 good tin out of 3 turns out to be some very expensive pellets especially if you factor the sorting labor! You might want to keep those under lock and key at the xft match! It would be interesting to know if the relabeled versions in the FX or Daystate brands are any better. By the way, where do you usually keep your sorted pellets while at a match….asking for a friend.

Yes, disappointingly small percentage of "good" ones. 

I've shot the FX branded MRDs but haven't sorted any. Unsorted, they shoot about like unsorted JSB tins. 

Lol, I'm keeping an eye on those sorted tins. Maybe a little reverse with the stickers would keep em safe, ie swap the "rejects" and "primo" stickers lol. 

I wonder if someone could make a buck selling meticulously sorted pellets. I know my wife's grandfather was so desperate for a meaningful project that he was tying quilts there in the last few years before he passed away @ 91 years old. Not able to do much physically, but his mind was sharp as a tack. Somebody in a similar "minds willing but body is otherwise unable for physical tasks" situation might find some sense of purpose in sorting pellets and also make a little side cash. 

 

[Centercut]

As originally stated, this whole weighing pellets thing is an "aggregation of marginal gains" concept. Does shooting weigh sorted pellets make even a marginal difference from a certain gun? If yes, than there is benefit to the process. Add sorted pellets to: clean barrels, correct lube, smallish extreme spreads, quality scopes, solid rests, good triggers, practice, etc etc etc. and it all totals out to better overall accuracy/precision. Watch Tomcat's vid on how he just won EBR, with this idea of aggregation of marginal gains in mind, and you'll see all the small things he did that added up to giving him just enough of a difference to be the winner.

Good post. I think the only thing left off was "luck". Anyone that shoots 100Y BR with pellets and doesn't think luck is a factor is a true Pollyanna. Of course shooter skill, preparation, and equipment are all factors, but there is always that pinch of luck required. I usually think that the above will get you into the top 5, but you need that extra dose of luck to win... Luck in your bench position, luck when you pull the trigger, luck in your method of shooting. Some require more luck than others to win, like the "spray and pray" method of shooting 100Y BR.

 

[nomojo65]

RETRACTED…

 

[Franklink]

As originally stated, this whole weighing pellets thing is an "aggregation of marginal gains" concept. Does shooting weigh sorted pellets make even a marginal difference from a certain gun? If yes, than there is benefit to the process. Add sorted pellets to: clean barrels, correct lube, smallish extreme spreads, quality scopes, solid rests, good triggers, practice, etc etc etc. and it all totals out to better overall accuracy/precision. Watch Tomcat's vid on how he just won EBR, with this idea of aggregation of marginal gains in mind, and you'll see all the small things he did that added up to giving him just enough of a difference to be the winner.

Good post. I think the only thing left off was "luck". Anyone that shoots 100Y BR with pellets and doesn't think luck is a factor is a true Pollyanna. Of course shooter skill, preparation, and equipment are all factors, but there is always that pinch of luck required. I usually think that the above will get you into the top 5, but you need that extra dose of luck to win... Luck in your bench position, luck when you pull the trigger, luck in your method of shooting. Some require more luck than others to win, like the "spray and pray" method of shooting 100Y BR.

Oh for sure Mike. 

Interesting how in field target (at least regular sub 20ft) we often see the same handful of shooters at the top, both at local monthly matches and in GPs and the bigger matches. But that same trend has not yet extended over to RMAC, EBR, PA Cup. Just that fact seems like a pretty decent indicator that luck is indeed one of the factors in those types of competitions. I haven't competed in the big benchrest events, but I'd think that having all your ducks in a row with pellets and equipment and trigger time are necessary pieces of the equation though, so that when lady luck does show the shooter some favor, enough 9s and 10s happen for the lucky/well prepared shooter go home with the prize money. 

 

[Franklink]

I had a few hours to shoot the other evening, taking breaks off and on. I shot a total of 10 EBR practice "cards," all at 90 yards.

I used four different "batches" throughout the ten cards.

• the pellets I weighed and sorted back in Oct of 2021, weighing 25.3grains
• the pellets I weighed and sorted back in Oct of 2021, weighing 25.5grains
• a batch purchased in the spring, lubed but not sorted
• a batch purchased just last week, lubed but not sorted

The weighed and sorted were technically from the same lot#, only varying in weight.


I made note of a few things that I thought interesting and just wanted to share.

• The 25.5 and 25.3grain pellets hit at the same impact point, even at 90 yards. I would have expected the slightly heavier ones to hit just a bit lower, but nope. So weight differences of 0.2grains don't seem to matter.
• The 25.5 and 25.3grain pellets shot the worst scores of the 10 cards. While not the worst batch of MRDs that I've gotten, they were prone to flyers prior to the sorting experiment. In fact the sorting experiment was due to the flyers.
• The second best score was shot with the batch purchased in the spring.
• The best score was from the batch purchased last week. I only shot one card with that batch, but had multiple 5 shot sub moa groups in it. Score was a 232. Their tendency to go where I wanted them to was remarkably more evident than it was with the other batches, still needing an average of 0.5mils of hold off for the wind, but they were actually grouping like they should.
• Even with the best batch, there was still one flyer. Between scored shots and practice shots I let fly 30 pellets from the good batch, so 1/30 is much better flyer rate than I've seen before from MRDs, but would still ruin a run at the big money for EBR/RMAC.

My updated conclusions (and perhaps simply reiterating).......

• Crappy batch is a crappy batch. Sorting can help it, but cannot make it a good batch.
• It is VERY, VERY, VERY difficult to segregate out a "good" batch or a "bad" batch by any other means than simply shooting.
• Maybe its my poor eyesight, or measurement tools/skills, but I've not been able to pinpoint any physical attributes that indicate a given batch/tin/lot/etc. will shoot well.
• My known worst batches will become offhand practice pellets as that seems a better use of my time than sorting. (at least that way I'm getting to shoot instead of going cross-eyed staring at a scale and knowing that the hours spent sorting will still not make them shoot as good as an unsorted "good" batch).
• Unless my pellet stash situation gets dire and I only have junk batches left and need some for a match, I don't plan to spend any more time sorting.